Not clouds

[deducer]

Renewable energy is being sold to the public as a simple, “plug & play” solution to our energy and environmental problems, this is just a sales gimmick
wind power and solar power cannot support major industrial processes like steel forging and aluminum processing without having a huge negative impact upon the environment, just look at the wind farms in palm springs Ca.
what used to be a beautiful landscape now looks worse than signal hill looked like during the oil rush
meanwhile, no one looks at the benefits of nuclear due to the high risk and waste containment issues.
there will have to be trade offs, but the desires of home owners will not drive the implementation of new energy solutions. It is industry that will do that and as long as we are comfortable with having heavy industry dominated by China, then we can delude ourselves into thinking that we are making a difference by installing a few solar panels on our homes.

In the midst of World War two, this country made a massive transition from steam to new diesel technology in terms of railroad motive power. Railroads at the time were the backbone of transportation in the country, as tractor trailer trucks had yet to make any sort of impact- was that then, a sales gimmick? Or an evolution to new technology?

And earlier, ships made the massive transition from coal to oil. Another gimmick?

Technology is always, and always will be evolving.

 

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[Al D]

In the midst of World War two, this country made a massive transition from steam to new diesel technology in terms of railroad motive power. Railroads at the time were the backbone of transportation in the country, as tractor trailer trucks had yet to make any sort of impact- was that then, a sales gimmick? Or an evolution to new technology?

And earlier, ships made the massive transition from coal to oil. Another gimmick?

Technology is always, and always will be evolving.

What you are quoting as new technology is not that at all, do you think that simply changing a carbon fuel source is technological advancement?
and actually, the steam technology which you imply was replaced by diesel, was and still is, the most efficient thermal energy conversion system ever devised. New technology does not automatically equate to advancement or better technology.

 

[deducer]

What you are quoting as new technology is not that at all, do you think that simply changing a carbon fuel source is technological advancement?
and actually, the steam technology which you imply was replaced by diesel, was and still is, the most efficient thermal energy conversion system ever devised. New technology does not automatically equate to advancement or better technology.

The conversion to diesel energy was in fact, a technological advancement.

As you know, while steam is a potent form of energy, limited only by the materials designed to handle it, it still required multiple fuel sources: water, air, and heat fuel. A steam engine had to pull a tender full of water and heat fuel such as coal or wood. A diesel engine only had to haul diesel fuel.

And steam machinery required many moving parts- thus requiring much more maintenance than a diesel engine, and was prone to breaking down a lot more.

So, cost and labor-wise, diesel was a massive technological advancement.

And the electric engine even more so, requiring much less parts than an internal combustion engine, and producing 70-99.99% energy efficiency, almost twice the efficiency for the internal combustion engine which wastes a great deal of energy through heat.

WIth an electric engine, the transmission, oil cooler, radiator, driveshaft, and other elements are eliminated. Less things to go wrong.

 

[Al D]

The conversion to diesel energy was in fact, a technological advancement.

As you know, while steam is a potent form of energy, limited only by the materials designed to handle it, it still required multiple fuel sources: water, air, and heat fuel. A steam engine had to pull a tender full of water and heat fuel such as coal or wood. A diesel engine only had to haul diesel fuel.

And steam machinery required many moving parts- thus requiring much more maintenance than a diesel engine, and was prone to breaking down a lot more.

So, cost and labor-wise, diesel was a massive technological advancement.

And the electric engine even more so, requiring much less parts than an internal combustion engine, and producing 70-99.99% energy efficiency, almost twice the efficiency for the internal combustion engine which wastes a great deal of energy through heat.

WIth an electric engine, the transmission, oil cooler, radiator, driveshaft, and other elements are eliminated. Less things to go wrong.

All very good points, but, first off, the Cornucopian viewpoint is seriously flawed, it is akin to a belief in perpetual motion in that somewhere, there exist a technology which will provide more energy than was required to produce that technology. If you look a the motivations for the advancement of technology, you will find that it was mostly financially based.
even the most advanced technological advancement which is available to common people, i.e. the iPhone, is used for superfluous entertainment.
What needs to be understood here is that whatever technology you choose to utilize will have some negative consequence associated with its use.
dead birds and disrupted migration routes for wind farms
loss of habitats for some species where the vast solar arrays are constructed.
electric cars are great, except what do you do with the spent batteries? Recycle them, but that will take more energy than they ever provided. There is no renewable green solution to our environmental energy problem.

 

[Mad Machinist]

I don't see the diesel engine going anywhere anytime soon. It is used in too many things. I'm getting ready to put up a 40'x60' steel building at my camp and it will be powered by a 48kw Whisperwatt diesel generator. Got that at auction too as it needed repair fornoennies on the dollar.

Like I said until battery technology improves to the point of being able to support high demand draws, solar and wind will pretty much be used to power residential areas.

Short term high demand draws will kill a battery very quickly. Even the new lithium ion batteries cannot support a high demand draw. They get hot and shutdown. There is no real difference in the lithium ion batteries in my cordless tools and what is being offered to the solar industry now.

 

[azdave35]

I don't see the diesel engine going anywhere anytime soon. It is used in too many things. I'm getting ready to put up a 40'x60' steel building at my camp and it will be powered by a 48kw Whisperwatt diesel generator. Got that at auction too as it needed repair fornoennies on the dollar.

Like I said until battery technology improves to the point of being able to support high demand draws, solar and wind will pretty much be used to power residential areas.

Short term high demand draws will kill a battery very quickly. Even the new lithium ion batteries cannot support a high demand draw. They get hot and shutdown. There is no real difference in the lithium ion batteries in my cordless tools and what is being offered to the solar industry now.

they do more than shutdown when they get hot....they also blow up...don't ask how i know this...my wife is still pissed at me about the incident ..(hint..don't charge lithium batteries in the house..charge them outside)

 

[wrmickel1]

Dave
Theres better batteries now. Rare Earth Mineral Batteries can power whole Cities including high consumption appliances.
They can be built to any size for any power needs. It’s already here in the US down there in Texas. Not far from Travis’s old Cabin.

babymick1

 

[Mad Machinist]

Dave
Theres better batteries now. Rare Earth Mineral Batteries can power whole Cities including high consumption appliances.
They can be built to any size for any power needs. It’s already here in the US down there in Texas. Not far from Travis’s old Cabin.

babymick1

You talking about the nickel metal hydride batteries? Still alot of issues with them also.

 

[deducer]

All very good points, but, first off, the Cornucopian viewpoint is seriously flawed, it is akin to a belief in perpetual motion in that somewhere, there exist a technology which will provide more energy than was required to produce that technology. If you look a the motivations for the advancement of technology, you will find that it was mostly financially based.
even the most advanced technological advancement which is available to common people, i.e. the iPhone, is used for superfluous entertainment.
What needs to be understood here is that whatever technology you choose to utilize will have some negative consequence associated with its use.
dead birds and disrupted migration routes for wind farms
loss of habitats for some species where the vast solar arrays are constructed.
electric cars are great, except what do you do with the spent batteries? Recycle them, but that will take more energy than they ever provided. There is no renewable green solution to our environmental energy problem.

But technology has made our lives better, hasn't it?

Todays' very efficient automobiles are a very far cry from yesterday's Model T Fords.

Tomorrow's electric cars will also be a drastically improved version of the ones we have today. Including longevity of battery life (and thus a greatly reduced need to recycle).

It's also noteworthy to remember that the Model T had a range of around 100 miles, as opposed to 300-400 miles with a modern car, and 600-700 with a hybrid vehicle.

 

[deducer]

they do more than shutdown when they get hot....they also blow up...don't ask how i know this...my wife is still pissed at me about the incident ..(hint..don't charge lithium batteries in the house..charge them outside)

I charge lithium batteries all the time, and I've never had a problem. All my power tools except my miter and table saws are powered by lithium batteries.

Cheap ones do tend to have issues, and I avoid them.

 

[dredgernaut]

I.M.O. technology has made our lives more comfortable. the production of the continuous advancements has caused the majority of the environmental damage.
I think a horse was more efficient. no gas. no manufacturing, no mining, no environmental damage. couple pieces of wood and you got a wagon.
a model t required less than 20 percent of the materials required to build a modern car with similar emission values. and less toxic materials as well.
and 1 train could do what 200 semi trucks can do, so No. its Not necessarily better. it is easier to build roads than train tracks. so to advance we cover the world with oil and asphalt to make driving easier. while the water sources pay the price. but yes diesel is a powerful source. semis can be made by many smaller companys, they helped to break down the railroads and iron company's monopoly on travel and shipping. and now we burn coal AND diesel to advance..
medical advancements make lives better.
usually its all profit driven. in my opinion anyways. lol

 

[Al D]

But technology has made our lives better, hasn't it?

Todays' very efficient automobiles are a very far cry from yesterday's Model T Fords.

Tomorrow's electric cars will also be a drastically improved version of the ones we have today. Including longevity of battery life (and thus a greatly reduced need to recycle).

It's also noteworthy to remember that the Model T had a range of around 100 miles, as opposed to 300-400 miles with a modern car, and 600-700 with a hybrid vehicle.

In many ways yes, just look at plastic, a miracle product which modern life could not exist without it, but also look at the huge problem of plastic waste and what it is doing to the environment.
everyone wants to be 21st century but no one wants to be responsible. There is money to be made selling comfort and convenience, this is the trade off I mentioned earlier, everything has a negative consequence.

 

[azdave35]

I charge lithium batteries all the time, and I've never had a problem. All my power tools except my miter and table saws are powered by lithium batteries.

Cheap ones do tend to have issues, and I avoid them.

deducer..i'm not a complete caveman...i have dozens of gadgets that use lithium batteries....i'm just saying that they get ugly when they blow...i was charging a drone battery (not a cheap one) when i noticed it was starting to swell..i unplugged it and headed for the back door but before i could get there it went off in my hand like a roman candle..it was shooting flames and sparks out of it 2 foot long....don't ever let anyone tell you they aren't dangerous ...that's why the post office has strict regs on shipping them

 

[azdave35]

But technology has made our lives better, hasn't it?

Todays' very efficient automobiles are a very far cry from yesterday's Model T Fords.

Tomorrow's electric cars will also be a drastically improved version of the ones we have today. Including longevity of battery life (and thus a greatly reduced need to recycle).

It's also noteworthy to remember that the Model T had a range of around 100 miles, as opposed to 300-400 miles with a modern car, and 600-700 with a hybrid vehicle.

i agree but sometimes i think we would all be better without all this technology

 

[somehiker]

https://jalopnik.com/surveillance-video-of-tesla-exploding-in-shanghai-parki-1834211204

Don't think I'm ready for a battery pack in MY basement.....

 

[A2coins]

Again never fails

 

[deducer]

In many ways yes, just look at plastic, a miracle product which modern life could not exist without it, but also look at the huge problem of plastic waste and what it is doing to the environment.
everyone wants to be 21st century but no one wants to be responsible. There is money to be made selling comfort and convenience, this is the trade off I mentioned earlier, everything has a negative consequence.

i agree but sometimes i think we would all be better without all this technology

Despite the drawbacks and the disruptions that technology sometimes makes in our lives, it has unquestionably improved the quality of our lives.

We lead far better, longer, and more healthier lives than our predecessors did.

 

[deducer]

https://jalopnik.com/surveillance-video-of-tesla-exploding-in-shanghai-parki-1834211204

Don't think I'm ready for a battery pack in MY basement.....

A quick search on google for "videos of cars exploding" (e.g., cars with internal combustion engines) turned up 5,100,000 results.

 

[Al D]

Despite the drawbacks and the disruptions that technology sometimes makes in our lives, it has unquestionably improved the quality of our lives.

We lead far better, longer, and more healthier lives than our predecessors did.

I don’t think we were debating the benefits of technology, but rather its image as a panacea for all of our current problems

 

[somehiker]

A quick search on google for "videos of cars exploding" (e.g., cars with internal combustion engines) turned up 5,100,000 results.

Don't suppose the relative volumes of Gas vs Electric would have anything to do with that number, do ya ?
Hell, wait till Hollywood gets wind of the potential.......or Michael Moore.....

But so far, no one has suggested I should install a gasoline powered generator, let alone a Pinto in my basement.