Nova Scotia offshore booty to be off limits...

[jeff k]

Nova Scotia offshore booty to be off limits for commercial treasure hunters

Keith Doucette, The Canadian Press

HALIFAX - Nova Scotia is putting an end to all underwater commercial treasure hunting along its coast in a move aimed to prevent the loss of the province's marine heritage.

The government said Wednesday it would introduce legislation in the fall to repeal the Treasure Trove Act.

Enacted in 1954, the law governs treasure hunting on famed Oak Island on the province's south shore. The scope of the original act was subsequently expanded to cover the licensing of shipwreck salvage operations off the coast.

Under the current rules, treasure hunters are allowed to keep most of what they find. But they are required to hand over 10 per cent of non-precious artifacts to the province.

David Salter, a spokesman for the Department of Natural Resources, said the intent of the new Oak Island Act is to ensure that everything that is found beneath the sea stays in Nova Scotia.

He said individuals and groups will still be allowed to dive on wrecks, but only for archeological and historical purposes.

"Anything that is found would become property of the province," said Salter.

He said some outstanding licenses would still be granted to applicants who meet policy guidelines for treasure hunting, but that all activities would come to an end Dec. 31.

Salter couldn't provide a precise figure, but said there aren't any more than a "handful" of outstanding licences.

The new legislation would incorporate elements of the existing Special Places Protection Act, which carries penalties for those who would remove artifacts without a heritage research permit.

Under the act, anyone in violation can be fined up to $10,000, while a company can face a fine of up to $100,000. The province also has the authority to seize anything found during an excavation.

"This just makes it (legislation) more streamlined and clearer that the purpose is essentially to preserve these heritage objects here in Nova Scotia," said Michael Noonan, a spokesman for the Department of Tourism, Culture and Heritage.

Both provincial officials said repealing the Treasure Trove Act would bring Nova Scotia in line with other provinces.

John Wesley Chisholm, a Halifax-based independent filmmaker and avid diver, welcomed the news.

"It allows us to move together under one legislation and figure out the best way to explore and protect and share the marine cultural heritage," said Chisholm.

He says that's significant in a province with an estimated 10,000 shipwrecks, more than any other part of North America.

Chisholm also believes the opportunity now exists to look at new ways to publicly showcase the mysteries that lie beneath the province's coastal waters.

"I think it's our duty ... to try to improve the way we look after this hidden part of Nova Scotia with its story that is relevant to the world," he said.

 

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[Darren in NC]

"It allows us to move together under one legislation and figure out the best way to explore and protect and share the marine cultural heritage," said Chisholm.

Explore - All motivation to significantly explore will cease

Protect - Now will be looted by those pushed out by legislators

Share - It will never see the light of day by looters or an underfunded gov't


Sad...very sad.

 

[mariner]

Despite what Nova Scotia might say, if a salvor gets permission from the owner of a wreck to salvage it, I don't think that the Province will be able to refuse permission to do so.

Mariner

 

[aquanut]

Mariner. The way it's going, there will shortly be no legal way to hunt or salvage the seas. Everything will be controlled by the government.
Aquanut

 

[mariner]

Aquanut,

Unfortunately that is the trend, but the Laws of the Sea and the Convention on Salvage have a long history, and I think that they will survive the current onslaught ...................... I hope.

I hope that your joints are making progress.

Mariner

 

[piratediver]

I worked on a couple of wrecks in Nova Scotia as the archaeologist for a private salvage company. The place is loaded with sites and and the Treasure Trove Act allowed and encouraged companies to expend the time and funds to properly excavate, curate and exhibit a full range of artifacts in museums there. We would often find evidence of other divers having been on the wrecks even though we had legal and exclusive permits to be there. Repealing this act will now open the flood gates to widespread looting and destruction since most wrecks are in shallow water and easily accessible.

The usual suspects having been pushing for this act to disappear for a long time as they can't stand competition. As in Florida, they try to take the moral high ground but we all know they are motivated by professional jealousy and job security. Just think if private groups were not allowed to excavate the 1715 fleet, who would risk life and limb to do so for the sake of "scholarship"?


Pirate Diver

 

[jeff k]

http://tinyurl.com/2emgkdr

 

[sunken collector]

As a Nova Scotian I am ashamed of what is being done by this new Treasure Trove Act. Over the past few years permits have been issued but no actual extensive recovery of artifacts have been made and preliminary finds are in possession of the NS Museum who will never show them as they were recovered by "Treasure Hunters". See the case of the HMS Fantome. Perhaps the present Treasure Trove Act of a division 90/10 (finder to Province) needs revision but to totally shut it down? As has been said, looters will now take over. Or - divers can recover artifacts and give them to the Province ------ not likely. I wish I could say that protests to government officials and politicians will change anything but I know they won't. If you feel this act is bad for divers you need to read the similar act for Newfoundland!! Being in possession of artifacts can get you in trouble!

 

[Bum Luck]

".............that all activities would come to an end Dec. 31."

Yup, legal ones.

No one is learning from the Brits who seem to have a working system.

Where is the money going to come from to salvage the wrecks in our lifetimes, or before they even go back to the sea?

 

[ivan salis]

when you remove "legal" salvors off of the wrecks --whos going to be the "watchdogs" over them? ---because now illegal type wreck poaching folks know know where these "valuible" wrecks are --and when the "salvors" are forced to leave the sites --(which the salvors currently keep a "eye"on to protect their "investment" in the wreck --from said "poachers") --- it will be "open season" on these wrecks.--- and by not having these legal salvors as free "eyes and ears"on the water to report / stop illegal hunters (which they hate since the illegal fellows wreck the very vessels they would otherwize "legally" harvest) -- the only "players" left on the feild will be the looters !!!! plus folks that were otherwize legally employed might go to the "dark side" now and turn to looting since they now can not earn a "honest" living.-- because at the end of the day --a mans gotta feed the kids and pay the bills -- the "right" of maritime salvage as a way of making a "honest" living from the sea is a long standing tradition almost as old as mankind going to sea itself is . --reclaiming what the ocean has taken , is not for the faint of heart, as the ocean guards her treasures well.

 

[shpwrk1]

Folks,
I was the archaeologist on the HMS Fantome as well as the Chameau, there is basically a few rabble rousers who are trying to over turn the Treasure Trove Act, and as you are all no doubt aware there are not that many salvage groups in Nova Scotia.

The fact of the matter is that Nova Scotia is one of the most unforgiving places on earth for shipwrecks, between the moving cobbles and shale to the grinding sea ice that often comes in on a ship like the HMS Fantome anything that was found was wedged down between large boulders and cemented into concretion. We recovered maybe 12 silver coins from the site the year that I worked it.

The way that it works in Nova Scotia is that the Province gets 100% of non-treasure trove items i.e. anything that is not gold or silver or worked gems. Stop and think about that for a minute everything else from a vessel that might be recovered iron, brass, guns, ammo, plates, cups etc. etc. all belongs to the Province at no cost, the cost of reocovery, conservation and reporting are all covered by pivate risk capitol. How much did that project cost? It was multiple months for a crew that varied from 5-8 people, two rental houses dock space, boat hire, food, fuel etc. etc. I would wager that the local Province did not suffer too much from our presence.

The Nova Scotia Museum got everything and since both Washington DC and the UK both got all hot and bothered by the attempts to recover the fragmented and highly deteriorated remains of the ship - Washington, because there was the possibility that there were goods from the 1814 invasion on board and they (Washington) were putting forward a pre-emptive claim. The UK because it was the site of a Sovereign Warship and the resting place of her honored dead.

We found Spanish Colonial coins, which may or may not have come from the USA. We discovered fragments of copper sheathing impressed with the broad arrow, that show indeed it was crown property, I was almost too embarrassed to point out that no-one had died in the wreck. In fact everyone walked off.

This site has been constantly picked at by divers for years with a continuing loss of any sort of information that the artifacts might have told us, but here when a legitimate firm, goes to the lengths to work with the Government hire crew and archaeologists, conservators and historic researchers, everybody is suddenly up in arms. (attached please find a picture of some divers goody bag that became a part of the site, including a blasting cap).

This is not a concern for historic preservation it is a taking of the entire resource by a special interest group. We see it all the time, let us look at this logically for just a moment. If you are a historic salvor worth your salt and are trying to work legally it requires a substantial amount of funds. You generally are after a specific target or at the very least searching in what you hope will be a target rich environment for a wreck that will hold intrinsically valuable material as well as a great historic story. Professional Salvors rarely go after 100 year old fishing boats or the like. UNESCO says that there are 3 million shipwrecks in the world. I would submit that it is not the Mel Fisher's or the Odyssey's that governments need to worry about- no I would submit that trawl damage is a much bigger threat, I would submit that the idea of "in-situ- preservation is more of a threat, I would submit that letting one user group take the entire resource is coddling to that special interest.

Shipwrecks occur in all manner of environments, most of them are extremely hostile and not conducive to preservation of man-made objects, Nova Scotia is such a place. Those groups that have the motivation to raise the capitol, work under the law and share the knowledge that they gain from their work should be encouraged and guided not legislated against.

Sorry for the rant this kind of backwards thinking is so very frustrating.

 

[sunken collector]

shpwrk1 - I couldn't agree with you more. Not being a diver I have, however, heard from divers who told me looting has been taking place on Fantome site for years. Terry Dwyer & others have put written recommendations to the government (see wreckhunter.ca) on the Treasure Trove Act that were not accepted. Having worked the site you know how difficult is has been to get through to the beaurocrats. I wrote to the Premier, the Tourism Minister, and Minister of Natural Resoureses last night to put in my two cents (for all that it is worth). I will keep you posted on a reply. Sunken collector

 

[Bum Luck]

Folks,
I was the archaeologist on the HMS Fantome as well as the Chameau, there is basically a few rabble rousers who are trying to over turn the Treasure Trove Act, and as you are all no doubt aware there are not that many salvage groups in Nova Scotia.

The fact of the matter is that Nova Scotia is one of the most unforgiving places on earth for shipwrecks, between the moving cobbles and shale to the grinding sea ice that often comes in on a ship like the HMS Fantome anything that was found was wedged down between large boulders and cemented into concretion. We recovered maybe 12 silver coins from the site the year that I worked it.

The way that it works in Nova Scotia is that the Province gets 100% of non-treasure trove items i.e. anything that is not gold or silver or worked gems. Stop and think about that for a minute everything else from a vessel that might be recovered iron, brass, guns, ammo, plates, cups etc. etc. all belongs to the Province at no cost, the cost of reocovery, conservation and reporting are all covered by pivate risk capitol. How much did that project cost? It was multiple months for a crew that varied from 5-8 people, two rental houses dock space, boat hire, food, fuel etc. etc. I would wager that the local Province did not suffer too much from our presence.

The Nova Scotia Museum got everything and since both Washington DC and the UK both got all hot and bothered by the attempts to recover the fragmented and highly deteriorated remains of the ship - Washington, because there was the possibility that there were goods from the 1814 invasion on board and they (Washington) were putting forward a pre-emptive claim. The UK because it was the site of a Sovereign Warship and the resting place of her honored dead.

We found Spanish Colonial coins, which may or may not have come from the USA. We discovered fragments of copper sheathing impressed with the broad arrow, that show indeed it was crown property, I was almost too embarrassed to point out that no-one had died in the wreck. In fact everyone walked off.

This site has been constantly picked at by divers for years with a continuing loss of any sort of information that the artifacts might have told us, but here when a legitimate firm, goes to the lengths to work with the Government hire crew and archaeologists, conservators and historic researchers, everybody is suddenly up in arms. (attached please find a picture of some divers goody bag that became a part of the site, including a blasting cap).

This is not a concern for historic preservation it is a taking of the entire resource by a special interest group. We see it all the time, let us look at this logically for just a moment. If you are a historic salvor worth your salt and are trying to work legally it requires a substantial amount of funds. You generally are after a specific target or at the very least searching in what you hope will be a target rich environment for a wreck that will hold intrinsically valuable material as well as a great historic story. Professional Salvors rarely go after 100 year old fishing boats or the like. UNESCO says that there are 3 million shipwrecks in the world. I would submit that it is not the Mel Fisher's or the Odyssey's that governments need to worry about- no I would submit that trawl damage is a much bigger threat, I would submit that the idea of "in-situ- preservation is more of a threat, I would submit that letting one user group take the entire resource is coddling to that special interest.

Shipwrecks occur in all manner of environments, most of them are extremely hostile and not conducive to preservation of man-made objects, Nova Scotia is such a place. Those groups that have the motivation to raise the capitol, work under the law and share the knowledge that they gain from their work should be encouraged and guided not legislated against.

Sorry for the rant this kind of backwards thinking is so very frustrating.

Pretty much sums it up, from a local expert who knows what the score is.

"This site has been constantly picked at by divers for years with a continuing loss of any sort of information that the artifacts might have told us, but here when a legitimate firm, goes to the lengths to work with the Government hire crew and archaeologists, conservators and historic researchers, everybody is suddenly up in arms."

Not to mention spending a lot of money locally, and highlighting the area with video productions for years of tourism spin off.

 

[Bum Luck]

and from the article:
But Darryl Kelman, president of the Nova Scotia Archaeology Society, said the proposed changes to the law bring the province in line with the rest of the country and the western world.

"The trend worldwide is to preserve wrecks in their natural setting," he said."

Well, that may work in the Great Lakes, but in the ocean with artifact degradation, ice damage, and looters? One diver for every 2,000 museum visitors?

Didn't get that masters in math, huh?

 

[FinderKeeper]

We had a class A permit from the Nova Scotia Gov. to check out Hobson Island to see if a Viking Ship was buried there and we did everythink by the book. We did it their way but we got screwed in the end. They kept everything and did nothing with the artifacts we gave them. I thought the main thing was to save the ship wrecks and protect everything of value. This island is washing away and will be gone in a few years and they will not allow anyone to dig the ocean is doing more damage than the treasure hunters.