NYC Takes Prospect Park and Owls Head Park off the list of places 2 hunt

[Ray S ECenFL]

Re: NYC Takes Prospect Park and Owl's Head Park off the list of places 2 hunt

Well, I still say a voice needs to be heard, I am actually sick of hearing there is nothing we can do. The reasons for the shutdown have nothing to do with our hobby so if they review the reasons and the MD rules there is a chance it can be overturned. I took about 2 hrs out of my time today, elected myself your spokesman and emailed a letter to the Commissioner of Parks and to every NYC council member in all 5 Boros that had an email address posted on this web page.http://council.nyc.gov/html/members/members.shtml click on a Boro and every member is listed, click on each member and see if they have an e-mail. Here is a copy of the letter I sent,

Dear (Council Members Name Here),
I have been asked by a large group of New Yorkers who have a special interest in metal detecting NYC Parks to contact you regarding a recent notice to permit holders. The group I represent has high regards for the parks as a whole and are all permit holders who abide by the rules imposed by said permit. The notice states that Prospect Park and Owl's Head park have been removed from the list of parks we are able to enjoy our hobby at.
The notice had a number on it if you had questions regarding this decision. We called the number and were given various reasons for the decision. The reasons given have nothing to do with our recreational activities and we feel this decision was made unfairly. Many members of the group have lost valuable recreational space.
We, as a special interest group, would like to have this decision reviewed at which time we are sure it will be overturned. I am available anytime to discuss this matter with the appropriate Representative. My cell phone number is (furnished my number).
Sincerely,
Glenn (Last Name)

That is a great start. I bet if you rally all the NY MDers to flood them with email and phone calls, that will get their attention. A barage of protests fromt he voting public will definately get thier attention.

Ray S

 

[TreasurdiggrNY]

Re: NYC Takes Prospect Park and Owl's Head Park off the list of places 2 hunt

Hey Everyone,
I got a nice reply from one of the Council Members I e-mailed. He only spoke about Owl's Head Park. His office contacted the Parks Dept. and was told by the Director who is in charge of maintaining this park that there are two problems here. 1. They are having problems with dirt erosion park-wide which affects the many old trees whose exposed roots extend for great distances. 2. Guys are detecting in there and they are digging/ cutting around the trees and the exposed roots and not filling in their holes. I don't need to tell you the damage this causes.
I can't argue their decision to take it off the list based on the above. I can only hope that word gets out to those who practice these unethical recovery techniques to prevent other parks from being shut down.
Glenn

 

[EZrider]

Re: NYC Takes Prospect Park and Owl's Head Park off the list of places 2 hunt

The beginning of the end. In the very short time i have been park detecting i have seen this too here in the city. This is going to become a city wide thing in time. Untill then god help the poor soul that i run into that does this. Whith a slim chance anyone who reads this. NYC laws will not help you if i come across your path leaving open holes and trash on the ground.

 

[I_Dig_NYC]

Re: NYC Takes Prospect Park and Owl's Head Park off the list of places 2 hunt

Question.... How can you tell when a politician is lying?
Answer...... When his lips are moving.

I can't believe some of the angry mob mentality I am reading on here.
I can't believe some of you people can't tell when you are being scapegoated.

"The City said this", "The City said that", How well do you really know "The City".

Open your eyes people. Take a walk through a few of the city parks that are not on the list. Then send me 5 bucks for every tree you see with some erosion around it. They are everywhere, I see them all the time and do you know who caused this corrosion? Was all this caused by the metal detector fairy that went around last night and single handedly cut all the roots from hundreds of trees around the city?.

I spoke to a park ranger in Orchard beach that told me his beef with people and trees is that after the barbecue they dump all their hot coals and ashes around the base of a tree. Causing the tree to die.

The parks department also has a problem with people who choose to take short cuts through the park to get to the street quicker instead of following a designated path. There are ruts that look like they were left by the wagon wheels of the wild west all over these parks. When it rains water flows through the ruts like a river, "eroding" the landscape and exposing the roots of any trees in the area. Wheres the notice to the public to stop these destructive practices? Why don't they put a stop to that? They can't. But they can go after the little guys. The guys with the permits, yeah that's the answer.

Let's just lay in wait behind some tree in Owls Head park and wait for someone to cut across the grass or dump there hot coals and lets throw a sack over their heads and throw them in the East River. Because surely you will see the abuse caused by irresponsible park goers way before you find that one invisible little metal detector guy being blamed for all this damage.

Anybody here hunt in Prospect or Owls head? Come on, man up to it if you do. Tell us how good your plugs look or how you saw some dude leaving holes behind. I can't feed into the sh*t the city is feeding some of us. Maybe because I know how the game is played. Personally I don't like Brooklyn at all and you couldn't catch me metal detecting there on my worst day.
That's just me.
So fu*k Brooklyn !!

 

[TreasurdiggrNY]

Re: NYC Takes Prospect Park and Owl's Head Park off the list of places 2 hunt

Question.... How can you tell when a politician is lying?
Answer...... When his lips are moving.

I can't believe some of the angry mob mentality I am reading on here.
I can't believe some of you people can't tell when you are being scapegoated.

"The City said this", "The City said that", How well do you really know "The City".

Open your eyes people. Take a walk through a few of the city parks that are not on the list. Then send me 5 bucks for every tree you see with some erosion around it. They are everywhere, I see them all the time and do you know who caused this corrosion? Was all this caused by the metal detector fairy that went around last night and single handedly cut all the roots from hundreds of trees around the city?.

I spoke to a park ranger in Orchard beach that told me his beef with people and trees is that after the barbecue they dump all their hot coals and ashes around the base of a tree. Causing the tree to die.

The parks department also has a problem with people who choose to take short cuts through the park to get to the street quicker instead of following a designated path. There are ruts that look like they were left by the wagon wheels of the wild west all over these parks. When it rains water flows through the ruts like a river, "eroding" the landscape and exposing the roots of any trees in the area. Wheres the notice to the public to stop these destructive practices? Why don't they put a stop to that? They can't. But they can go after the little guys. The guys with the permits, yeah that's the answer.

Let's just lay in wait behind some tree in Owls Head park and wait for someone to cut across the grass or dump there hot coals and lets throw a sack over their heads and throw them in the East River. Because surely you will see the abuse caused by irresponsible park goers way before you find that one invisible little metal detector guy being blamed for all this damage.

Anybody here hunt in Prospect or Owls head? Come on, man up to it if you do. Tell us how good your plugs look or how you saw some dude leaving holes behind. I can't feed into the sh*t the city is feeding some of us. Maybe because I know how the game is played. Personally I don't like Brooklyn at all and you couldn't catch me metal detecting there on my worst day.
That's just me.
So fu*k Brooklyn !!

Thanks for the support, you have just the attitude the City loves. Take our decision up the A$$ and do nothing about it but get angry and vent to the wrong people, you surely know how the game is played. God forbid you should take some time out to email the Parks Dept. or the City Council Members. Like I said in a previous post, if they hear from enough of us on this decision they may think twice about taking more off the list. Let's see what happens when they take some parks away from your neighborhood, oh I know what will happen, you'll complain about it but do nothing and then say something like"those parks sucked anyway" WTG
FYI I never got the chance to hunt in either park but I do care about ALL of them for ALL of us.
Glenn

 

[I_Dig_NYC]

Re: NYC Takes Prospect Park and Owl's Head Park off the list of places 2 hunt

Question.... How can you tell when a politician is lying?
Answer...... When his lips are moving.

I can't believe some of the angry mob mentality I am reading on here.
I can't believe some of you people can't tell when you are being scapegoated.

"The City said this", "The City said that", How well do you really know "The City".

Open your eyes people. Take a walk through a few of the city parks that are not on the list. Then send me 5 bucks for every tree you see with some erosion around it. They are everywhere, I see them all the time and do you know who caused this corrosion? Was all this caused by the metal detector fairy that went around last night and single handedly cut all the roots from hundreds of trees around the city?.

I spoke to a park ranger in Orchard beach that told me his beef with people and trees is that after the barbecue they dump all their hot coals and ashes around the base of a tree. Causing the tree to die.

The parks department also has a problem with people who choose to take short cuts through the park to get to the street quicker instead of following a designated path. There are ruts that look like they were left by the wagon wheels of the wild west all over these parks. When it rains water flows through the ruts like a river, "eroding" the landscape and exposing the roots of any trees in the area. Wheres the notice to the public to stop these destructive practices? Why don't they put a stop to that? They can't. But they can go after the little guys. The guys with the permits, yeah that's the answer.

Let's just lay in wait behind some tree in Owls Head park and wait for someone to cut across the grass or dump there hot coals and lets throw a sack over their heads and throw them in the East River. Because surely you will see the abuse caused by irresponsible park goers way before you find that one invisible little metal detector guy being blamed for all this damage.

Anybody here hunt in Prospect or Owls head? Come on, man up to it if you do. Tell us how good your plugs look or how you saw some dude leaving holes behind. I can't feed into the sh*t the city is feeding some of us. Maybe because I know how the game is played. Personally I don't like Brooklyn at all and you couldn't catch me metal detecting there on my worst day.
That's just me.
So fu*k Brooklyn !!

Thanks for the support, you have just the attitude the City loves. Take our decision up the A$$ and do nothing about it but get angry and vent to the wrong people, you surely know how the game is played. God forbid you should take some time out to email the Parks Dept. or the City Council Members. Like I said in a previous post, if they hear from enough of us on this decision they may think twice about taking more off the list. Let's see what happens when they take some parks away from your neighborhood, oh I know what will happen, you'll complain about it but do nothing and then say something like"those parks sucked anyway" WTG
FYI I never got the chance to hunt in either park but I do care about ALL of them for ALL of us.
Glenn

My, My Glenn, sorry if I offended you. Listen if it makes you feel any better I am with you in heart and spirit but my mind and my experience as a born and raised New Yorker tells me otherwise. I don't want to stray from the subject but I remember when the subway here was 55 cents, cigarettes were 75, a gallon of milk was 1.15 and unleaded was under a dollar. A lot of good complaining did to keep them from robbing us blind and lying to us to our face. The MTA showed you one book that said they were bleeding money while hiding the book that showed all the millions they made. And if you want to take things up another notch remember the Bush vs. Gore election. They slam dunked it to us in our face and what could all the hard core and hard line activists and protesters do? Nothing take it up the A$$ and get over it. The powers that be showed us once again who is really in charge.

As far as playing the game goes, yes I do know how "they" play it. It's their ball and their court. They make and change the rules as they see suitable. As you see with the parks rules. People of power and influence back their decisions and unless you have the power or influence to reverse it then all you can do is complain.

This is about the reality of the situation, and about using our intellect to see through the real reason they are doing this and how determined they are. As far as closing any parks to detecting in my area, hmmm I don't think I would lose any sleep over it. There's not much left to be found here except some clad and junk.

 

[TreasurdiggrNY]

Re: NYC Takes Prospect Park and Owl's Head Park off the list of places 2 hunt

I_Dig_NYC,
I'm not offended at all, I respect your opinions and the fact that you have the balls to express them. Just don't think for a second I'm believing what I'm hearing from this Councilman or the City or the Parks Dept. I am merely posting their responses as I get them, yeah their full of crap. I will be responding to his remarks today.
As a born and bred New Yorker myself, I know this is an uphill battle and I know in my heart that things may not work out in the end with regards to these two parks.
I do see an opportunity for us to band together and have our voice heard, as they have drawn a line in the eroded soil so to speak. I myself would like to see a precise, focused, large numbered, straight to the point counter attack to their decisions in the future even if it falls on deaf ears. We are entitled to our recreational space as much as the next group and we should fight for it.
Glenn

 

[TreasurdiggrNY]

Re: NYC Takes Prospect Park and Owl's Head Park off the list of places 2 hunt

Here is what I replied to the Council Member who replied to my email.
Dear Council Member (name here),

The group I represent thanks you for the quick response to our email.
We are sorry to hear that Owl's Head Park is having such a hard time with the erosion problem. We know that unless physical landscaping measures are taken this will be a tough problem to solve, as you stated yourself, soil is being washed away as fast as it's laid down. We can tell from the tone of your email you have a strong interest in the park and it's rehabilitation, we do too. I personally have fond memories of sledding in the winter there as well as seeing outdoor summer concerts that my older brother promoted there in the 70's.
We would like to address the "holes" issue that you feel are being caused by Members of our hobby. The men and women I represent respect all the parks citywide and take care when and where they are retrieving items from the ground. This includes filling in their holes and leaving no trace that they were even there. It is actually one of the most important ethical unwritten/ written rules of our hobby. Our hobby actually has a very small impact on the environment despite what others may have you believe.
We all agree that if someone IS actually digging and not filling in the holes or abiding by the rules that come with the permitted privileges, they should be reported to the proper authority and enforcement should be imposed. This may include a fine and for repeat offenders permit revocation. This is how it usually happens in other Parks.
It is important that you know the Members I represent do not condone this behavior at all, it really puts our hobby in a bad light. Not many people actually know what our interests are, they just seem to hone in on seeing us digging. New hobbyists are often reminded how precious usable space is and are asked to be respectful when they are out enjoying the hobby. We just don't think it's fair to shut everything down over a bad apple or two if that actually is the case. It also won't help the other Parks on the list as this person/ persons will just move on to another spot, something the members I represent are very concerned about.
We also know from experience that these "holes" are also caused by other factors that need to be considered/ addressed, especially in an area with erosion problems. After a downpour, and at night worms and other critters will come up out of the ground. When this happens, other animals that feed on these critters come out as well to eat. It is not uncommon for these animals to dig holes in search of a meal, especially around trees where some of the finer grubs reside. Squirrels are constantly digging in the ground as well as rats and mice and dogs and cats. It is very easy to see how Park employees who show up for work in the morning could easily think that the holes were caused by metal detectorists.
We would still appreciate your full support and sincerely ask for your help to have this decision overturned. We also have a lot of good ideas to discuss with you which would benefit all the City Parks in the 5 boros. We would like to extend an invitation to you, your family and children to join me and some fellow Members to a morning or afternoon of metal detecting in one of the City's Parks. We can surely supply metal detectors for your use. There is something special about seeing a child pull an old coin or relic out of the ground. It would be a great time for you to get a feel for what we do and how it's done as well as discuss our ideas. I can be reached on my cell phone at (number furnished).

Sincerely,
Glenn (last name)

 

[TreasurdiggrNY]

Re: NYC Takes Prospect Park and Owl's Head Park off the list of places 2 hunt

I got a call from another Council Member this afternoon. Very interested in any and all information I could provide. Sent everything I have written and received so far to his email address.
Glenn

 

[EZrider]

Re: NYC Takes Prospect Park and Owl's Head Park off the list of places 2 hunt

Glenn, thank you for speaking on our behalf. I too have put a word in as well. We could lose all 5 boughs if we do not speak up!

 

[Evolx10]

Re: NYC Takes Prospect Park and Owl's Head Park off the list of places 2 hunt

Well email them back that me -- the non ecologist parks maintenance fkn Sanitation worker is telling them their problem of soil erosion is not from us digging holes the problem stems from the place being a public park and being sculpted to please our eye and make our runing paths nice. and having hundreds of people stomp all over the grass kill it pack the soil down so nothing but the largest trees remain only to be blown over in a storm because years of soil erosion due to the lack of ground vegetation bla bla bla.. these people do not base their decisions on actual evidence or facts they just point fingers and make rules its simpler. the soil erosion will continue as long as all these overcrowded people are allowed to live cheaply ontop of each other with nowhere to go but under that 200 year old oak burning its base with their hot coals when its time to go home leaving their trash marking their temporary territory with wrapper and trash. But hey ! they represent a larger voting majority these grass stompers- these garbage tossers-- these watter bottle joggers -- when it comes down to it these parks are dying and have been the parks dept just props them up with fake life. they call it wilderness after the manufacture it "green belt" pfftt lol the funiest thing i ever heard, yea its green- green with poison ivy, green with invasive phragmites and choked out riparian areas thanks to Japanese knotweed. and this is their nature nothing but European sparrows and European starlings , hell the only abundant bird thats native is the rock dove , or flying street rat as they are called. the more i think about it the more i hate this pretentious city full of snobs and leaches. well I Dig NYC i'm with you, good riddance, the only reason i sometimes venture into these woods is because they are close by and i don't need much planning to go for a hunt. But i think from now on im swearing off them. Mt. Vernon is looking nice and old maybe us Bx hunters should try to get some permission to hunt private prop up there , foreclosures, prvt schools in the off season.

excuse my anger its all directed towards the politicians and city agencies

 

[Evolx10]

Re: NYC Takes Prospect Park and Owl's Head Park off the list of places 2 hunt

Despite my angry ramblings, i do respect and appreciate the few of you approaching this issue from the proper standpoint, I however am incapable of dealing with the "machine of this city".

So i do extend my thanks to the few going about protecting our meager little hobby.

 

[Evolx10]

Re: NYC Takes Prospect Park and Owl's Head Park off the list of places 2 hunt

Last angry post. I swear

In the past few days i have seen a few things in PBP, particularly around and near BP Mansion, very very sloppy work by some -i call them "Poachers". Here it is, someone has the balls to dig plugs directly in the middle of the Sinawoy trail near BPM. Now i run into alot of half covered plugs and sloppy work in the middle of the woods off the beaten path --big deal-- the only one to see it is other hunters, and the squirrels- ( out of sight -out of mind). But i mean come-on! in the middle of the path , and to boot a decent sized rock from the hole was just left on the path. Now i am aware that mainly skunks find our plugs almost irresistible, i can tell the difference (mostly) between a sloppy job and a skunk job. this along with the other mine field left further down the trail in direct view is just bad for all of us who take the time to be discreet and keep out of view.

It will only take one bird watcher or nature walker to make the 311 call and there will be parks officials keeping an eye out.

And yes i did repair the holes . and yes i can hear you banging your shovels on trees to get rid of mud, its pretty obvious & loud-(assumption that whoever they are, they lurk on this forum to sniff out clues for good hunting spots from us , and then go poach them).

 

[I_Dig_NYC]

Re: NYC Takes Prospect Park and Owl's Head Park off the list of places 2 hunt

Well email them back that me -- the non ecologist parks maintenance  fkn Sanitation worker is telling them their problem of soil erosion is not from us digging holes the problem stems from the place being a public park and being sculpted to please our eye and make our runing paths nice. and having hundreds of people stomp all over the grass kill it pack the soil down so nothing but the largest trees remain only to be blown over in a storm because years of soil erosion due to the lack of ground vegetation bla bla bla.. these people do not base their decisions on actual evidence or facts they just point fingers and make rules its simpler. the soil erosion will continue as long as all these overcrowded people are allowed to live cheaply ontop of each other with nowhere to go but under that 200 year old oak burning its base with their hot coals when its time to go home leaving their trash marking their temporary territory with wrapper and trash. But hey ! they represent a larger voting majority  these grass stompers- these garbage tossers-- these watter bottle joggers -- when it comes down to it these parks are dying and have been the parks dept just props them up with fake life. they call it wilderness after the manufacture it "green belt"  pfftt lol the funiest thing i ever heard, yea its green- green with poison ivy, green with invasive phragmites and choked out riparian areas thanks to Japanese knotweed. and this is their nature nothing but European sparrows and European starlings , hell the only abundant bird thats native is the rock dove , or flying street rat as they are called.  the more i think about it the more i hate this pretentious city full of snobs and leaches.  well I Dig NYC i'm with you, good riddance, the only reason i sometimes venture into these woods is because they are close by and i don't need much planning to go for a hunt. But i think from now on im swearing off them. Mt. Vernon is looking nice and old maybe us Bx hunters should try to get some permission to hunt private prop up there , foreclosures, prvt schools in the off season.

excuse my anger its all directed towards the politicians and city agencies

Amen, hallelujah and great balls of fire.
That's what I am talking about man.
Evolx10 "the non ecologist parks maintenance  fkn Sanitation worker" your just like Silver Fox and myself... You have your 2 feet firmly planted on terra firma.
Evolx10 you can see through this b#ll sh#t in a logical realistic way because you are there on the front lines and like myself have seen first hand how the situation really is, and for that I send you this wave.

Green ways? Green Belts? Ha!!, How about green backs. Complaints from 5 or 6 people is not gonna cut it.
Speaking out will not stop them from taking away the 5 Boro's if that's what they choose to do.
Let's get in line with all the other protesters; the elderly, the homeless, the gay rights, save the animals, save our schools, save the environment, anti gun, anti nuclear, anti semitism, anti abortion, pro choice, pro life,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
These politicians have no shortage of good causes to pick and choose from and to stand behind just for a photo.
Lets see who will get noticed, which squeaky wheel will be left squeaking?

A tree dies because of charcoal? They move the grill and plant a new one. Joggers dug a rut through the landscape? Some asphalt will fix that. Litter? More garbage cans. Do you think they will cater to us that way? Make any concessions for us and our fancy machines and our shovels? 
The parks were created for the litterbugs, destructive children, and charcoal throwing people of NYC. Not for us to dig and make holes in search of clad or common silver coins worth about $3 and other things of non historical significance. That's what they created the NY Historical Society for, 150 years ago. And let me tell you a little known secret, the Society went through all these parks already around the turn of the century. THEY have all the good finds sitting in their display cases on 5th Ave. Ever wonder why you can't find anything over 100 years old?

Glenn asked me what I would do if they took my park away from me?. Nothing!! I have learned to pick and choose my battles. I would not cry or complain and then say it was sour grapes anyway. I will simply take my ball and find another place to play. In the meantime I will continue to hunt at VCP and I am glad to be the "keeper" of my little "unknown by many" section of park. Away from the crowds and the police, even if I am out in the open barely a handful of people can ever see me. I repair my holes and no one else hunts there but me. I enjoy my day and go home with my little handful of dimes and pennies. Good riddance!! There is nothing worth while in these parks anymore. Guys are finding 300 year old coins, in the dark!. Read the posts. And just a stones throw away from us and that's where I will be going... in my car... when ever the mood strikes me... to find real treasure.

 

[I_Dig_NYC]

Re: NYC Takes Prospect Park and Owl's Head Park off the list of places 2 hunt

Bummer...

Funny thing is MY permit says I can hunt at both places It'll never hold up in court

That's right Joe G. You are a wise man. I see you understand how the game is played. You know what? My permit doesn't say I can't hunt there either and it's good for the rest of 2008, so try to sue me. I didn't get the notice and the only place I heard about it was here so stop me. You are on the right path Joe, when you can think of loop holes and ways to defy the city without actually breaking the law and you can prove their rules and laws are baseless then THAT my friend will get their attention.