occams razor

Re: occam's razor

If you don't believe me, just try and get one of them to work without having the operator hold it so the ideomotor response can make it move.

Ideo motor response

Ideo motor response is a concept in hypnosis and paranormal research. Based upon the precepts of the words 'ideo' (thought), 'motor' (action or activity) and response (in meaning respondant to stimuli) - the phrase is most commonly used in reference to the psychological activities that result in the muscular reaction, in humans, that may be presented as an abortive motion or even a reflexive reaction. It is strongly associated with the practice of hypnosis, whereby 'yes' or 'no' answers may be given by indication of a physical manifestation rather than a verbal one; such results are produced by 'pre-suggesting' the correct response and attaching ito either the left or right hand side of the subjects body.
It is generally considered to be an unconscious activity that the conscious brain has no true control over, but in various hypnotic theories - this statement may be taken to be actual hetero suggestion or role-playing to the contoller or therapist.

[edit] An example of IMR
If you were to be asked to imagine doing up your shoelaces as vividly as possible, your brain would consciously fixate on the task and work through it as vividly and as logically as possible. The theory of IMR would imply that your muscular memory asscoiated to your hands, would then attempt the task physically, but abort the process unless it was truly necessary and curtail the events that would unfold if you were actually willing to send the complete information along your nervous system to your hands. This may therefore involve an involuntary 'twitch' or movement of the associated digits are placed into preparation of function, processed against reality and then given the signal to not actually act.
In hypnosis, this may be circumvented by dissociating the particular thought-process-response-abort of a digit or entire limb; and therefore give control to the unconscious mind to enable (by suggestion) the route of conscious thought-unconscious process-conscious process (of the fact)-conscious response (do not act)- unconscious response (dissociate from conscious)- ignore abortive conscious attempt- unconscious unabort... Which would then display a reaction or response in a physical manner or behavioural context.
Body language may be considered the most commonly visible aspect of IMR, but may also include such unconscious activities as doodling or art - as the conscious thought is sublimated into a different type of activity in unconscious expression.
 

Re: occam's razor

allo TOM:you quoted----

Hey, do you ever wonder why there's never NEVER anyone on the detecting forum claiming that detectors don't beep over metal. Hmm, I wonder why that is? "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Actually they don't, . what the human operator interpretates as a beep is a continous cyclic frequency varying in intensity, and some case frequency. You respond to the intensity, not the basic cycle as such. (picky)
=========================================================

Quote-----
"Dowser, one does not have to try something, to have a say in it. Example: I need not try heroin, to suggest that it is not a wise choice"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

True, but a say, and an intelligrnt SAY, may be far removed from each other. and neither may be the truth.
=========================================================

Till Tulenspeigel
 

Re: occam's razor

I don't have to look at any replies, or anything else to tell me the ideomotor effect is very alive and well.

What you are telling us is that is how you know Dowsing does not work. You don't have to study any other facts...Real Scientific facts ...Art
 

Re: occam's razor

Jerry...You have told us everything that you know about Dowsing. I seems that we have given you a lot of advice about the subject of this forum. We have done our part as members of t-net. Bye....Art
 

Re: occam's razor

aarthrj3811 said:
Hey AF….Sorry that you feel that way….When some one has to “guess” what you are talking about it makes it hard to answer you. Stick to what you can prove. You may want to read the entire web site. Your knowledge of treasure hunting is so bad that it seems that you are not a treasure hunter….Art
You had to guess at what I was talking about?

Pretty easy to understand...More junk from the 14 century that you claim is Science....Art

And the junk from the 2000 years ago that you call dowsing? What do you have to say about that? - af1733

Where did I mention anything biblical, Art? Why did no one else feel a need to comment about this, if it's so obvious?

Stick with what I can prove? Well, I've proven that you have the vocabulary of a 9-year-old and the mentailty of a 12-year-old. Your knowledge of reading and comprehension is so bad it seems you did not graduate 6th grade.
 

Re: occam's razor

Stick with what I can prove? Well, I've proven that you have the vocabulary of a 9-year-old and the mentailty of a 12-year-old. Your knowledge of reading and comprehension is so bad it seems you did not graduate 6th grade.
Wrong as usual....Art
 

Re: occam's razor

seems alot like the K.I.S.S. idea on things in general --- Keep It Simple Stupid --- or basically put use the simplist easist explanation possible with the least possible amount of varibles in it. (less varibles means less chance for error) common sense really.
 

Re: occam's razor

aarthrj3811 said:
Stick with what I can prove? Well, I've proven that you have the vocabulary of a 9-year-old and the mentality of a 12-year-old. Your knowledge of reading and comprehension is so bad it seems you did not graduate 6th grade.
Wrong as usual....Art
Not judging from your responses.

You realize that I'm basing this on the immature way you deliberately misinterpret my posts, don't you? How do you expect to accomplish anything when you handle conversations in this manner?
 

Re: occam's razor

Dell Winders said:
Don't go looking for, and attaching, a lot of borrowed electronic terms to explain something that is obviously completely devoid of anything physical and scientific..........

You seem to imply that you believe you have proprietary, and censorship rights against people using electronic, or scientific terms without your approval?

Enjoy your fantasy. Dell
Did he state that, Dell? No, that's your fantasy.

Don't try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, to put it in simpler terms.
 

Re: occam's razor

Jerry Laden said:
Dell Winders said:
Don't go looking for, and attaching, a lot of borrowed electronic terms to explain something that is obviously completely devoid of anything physical and scientific..........

You seem to imply that you believe you have proprietary, and censorship rights against people using electronic, or scientific terms without your approval?

Enjoy your fantasy. Dell

You seem to imply that you believe you have proprietary, and censorship rights against people using real scientific terms to demonstrate the fallacy of dowsing, without your approval?

Enjoy your fantasy. Jerry
LOL! :D
 

Re: occam's razor

electric is electric -- the electric impluse made by bodies is the same as machine made
(agreed maybe not a strong but the electric is electric -- electric eels can shock you as easily as a electric wire can.
 

Re: occam's razor

the use of electronic terms -- like when discribing the electrical process by which metal detectors "find" metal *how the electrical feild made by the machines coil is disrupted by the metal in the ground and how the "machine" picks upon the disturbance and "makes a beeping noise to tell you its happening" --- these terms can also discribe how a similar process could happen -- the human electrical feild made by the body via the copper rods is disturbed by nearby metals in the ground-- exactly in the same manner as a "metal detector" only instead of a machine --the human body is the detector --
 

Re: occam's razor

Dell Winders said:
Quote
Don't go looking for, and attaching, a lot of borrowed electronic terms to explain something that is obviously completely devoid of anything physical and scientific..........

You seem to imply that you believe you have proprietary, and censorship rights against people using electronic, or scientific terms without your approval?

Enjoy your fantasy. Dell


You seem to imply that you believe you have proprietary, and censorship rights against people using real scientific terms to demonstrate the fallacy of dowsing, without your approval?

Enjoy your fantasy. Jerry


Yes, twisting the contents of a Dowser's post is certainly one example of a proclaimed skeptic's sneaky efforts at censorship. Dell
We only wish you would censor yourself, Dell. A lot of what you say should never see the light of day....
 

Re: occam's razor

the use of electronic terms -- like when discribing the electrical process by which metal detectors "find" metal *how the electrical feild made by the machines coil is disrupted by the metal in the ground and how the "machine" picks upon the disturbance and "makes a beeping noise to tell you its happening" --- these terms can also discribe how a similar process could happen -- the human electrical feild made by the body via the copper rods is disturbed by nearby metals in the ground-- exactly in the same manner as a "metal detector" only instead of a machine --the human body is the detector --

Hey Ivan....When I am standing on a signal line the rods will close. If I raise one of my feet off the line the rods will open. To me it is just like what happens when you turn a light switch off. When I put it back on the ground the rods close. It makes no difference which foot I take off the ground the same thing happens.

The signal lines go through the target. To see which way the target is located I drop one rod to my side. The remaining rod will alway's point to the target. Art
 

Re: occam's razor

the human electrical feild or "aura" as its know is indeed a valid feild -- it can be photographed and has been in the past -- the EMF feild of a human body while admittedly not as powerful as that of a metal detector does indeed exist -- the copper rods are needed to funnel the electrical power within the aura outward and allow the interaction to supply feed back to the humans nervious system thus helping the humanto focus in on the area --- much the same way sharks hunt down their prey by detecting the electrical impluses within their prey.
 

Re: occam's razor

The "voltage" between the hands can also be measured. Any volt meter will tell you which hand is positive and which is nagative...Art
 

Re: There is just one glaring problem with this particular analogy. That is, th

An EEG measures the brains electric impulses from outside the body and is a conventional instrument so Jerry your the one that is not understanding Occam's razor.Electric energy as all energy goes on infinitely.It can not be stopped or destroyed only changed in form. Your whole not physical or scientific theory just bit you in the as you were.
 

Re: occam's razor

Dowsing Rods and Aura's

Why do I mention Dowsing Rods and Aura's? I didn't know anything about Aura's and didn't believe or disbelieve in them until I came upon a web site named Dowsing Rods and Aura's. An Aura is simply a magnet field around your body. Heres a little test you can try if you have learned to use your dowsing rods

Have a person stand in front of you. Walk slowly toward them and when your rods cross you are inside of their aura.Now back up slowly until your rods open and then close to a vee. This is the outer edge of the aura.

Now have the person focus on different emotions and measure their field simply by staying in front of them. First I have the person focus on anger.I give them a few minutes to focus and ask them to think about something that makes them angry.

I have to move forward to make the rods form a vee because anger makes the aura shrink.I then ask them to think of something that makes them very happy. Give them a few minutes and you will have to move way backwards to form the vee because happyness expands the aura way passed where the normal aura was.

Have them think of stress and love and see what happens..Have Fun..
 

Re: occam's razor

Could that be because of your one track mind against dowsing as indicated by 76 consecutive posts against it? Is this a vendeta? Didn't Daddy love you enough or may be you purchased a LRL and feel the fool now? Must you try and take out your rage on others? You stated "The "human electrical field" you said was made by the body is not a real field. It is not something we can measure with conventional instruments." "I'm sorry, but there is no field that extends out from the human body". Well that was a false and inaccurate statement. Now you say " several yards or hundreds of feet ". So which is it and why should I believe your answer, You were wrong then and likely are now. Your an angry little man with a closed mind.Do you really know it all and have all the answers to life's mystery's? Only in your own mind.
PS Dobermans are great with a nice fava bean phsssssssssssssss
 

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