OI: Tell us your What? Who? And Why? No proof needed here.

[ECS]

Franklin, some of us deal in facts, not wild fantasies that we've whipped up in our heads simply because we want to believe that unrealistic supernatural organizations have hidden super secret massive stashes of unfathomable treasure all over the globe.
You don't deal in facts Franklin, you deal in man made fictions and then you spread that fiction as if it is some type of fact bearing knowledge. You are one of the reason why so many legends continue to be sensationalized beyond human capacities.
In all of these massive conspiracies that you have propagated over the years can you just post one cold hard fact to support any of them?
No, of course not. Enough said...

Then there is the totally misinformation posted as fact like Columbus's wife was a great great + granddaughter if Henry Sinclair that has no foundation in any fact, all the while dismissing real documented history in favor of this fabricated fantasy fictional history and professional lettered historians and their proven validated research.
Making up history is a lot easier that doing the actual research required of professionals.
'nuff said.

 

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[ECS]

...
I always wondered about those red crosses on Christopher Columbus' three ships. My teachers did not know so they could not teach it to me...

Isabella and Ferdinand's combined armies succeeded in driving the Moors from Spain, and with the blessing of the Pope, added the Red Cross to their ships sails for ship identification as the Catholic Christian nation of Spain, and remained on their sails for 300 years.
There is No connection whatsoever to the Red Crosses on these sails to the Red Crosses of Templars, remember, Spain, as a Catholic nation brought on the INQUISITION, and the Church had declared the Templars as heretics.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Depending on the artist the ships may or may not have had crosses on the sails. Unless someone looked back in their crystal ball the images appear not to have been saved. ;-)

The flag Columbus carried on behalf of his patrons likely would have looked like this:



Fernando and Ysabel

 

[ECS]

...
First, solve the mystery of the Beale Treasure and it's encoded DOI
Second, go against all your believes you have ever learned in life.
Three, Decode the KJV of the Holy Bible.
Four, Learn everything you can about our Founding Fathers and how this country was formed.
Fifth, Learn everything about the Rosary Cross, Rosalyn Chapel, Knight's Templar especially about 1307, then learn of the freemasons in America.
Sixth, You will have to know Gematria. Decipher the folios, sonnets of Shakespeare. Read all the books by Sir Walter Raleigh.
Seventh, Learn about Herdewke and Ralph de Sudeley and his sons. Especially the one called "Atoul" which is "Atwell"
Eighth, Read everything about Christopher Columbus. Also the voyage of the Mayflower and her personal log.
Ninth, Everything you can read on Jamestown, Williamsburg, Plymouth Rock, Philadelphia and Washington, D.C.
Tenth, Do all of this in reverse and add another 99 items to read and learn.
Then you will be able to find out where the Ark of the Covenant of God is located today.

What are the "other 99 items" that we all need to read?

 

[jmaddox]

Based on the 7 seasons of Curse of Oak Island that I've watched, it's obvious that there is not one "answer" to this mystery. There is concrete evidence based on artifacts, dendrochronology, metallurgy, structures and so forth, that there were many years of visiting of the island by various peoples, if not full occupation as well at various times. Evidence of French, British, Spanish, Templar, free-masons, have all been discovered.

What I find interesting is that people would go through an immense amount of labor to construct such an elaborate tunnel and flood system. I have to believe the original accounts of this flood tunnel, because much of what the original treasure hunters documented has indeed been verified.

I don't think treasure alone can account for the complexity of the design. Some things humans hold near and dear can transcend monetary value. I could be wrong, depends I guess how much was buried.

I don't think a ship is buried or was burned in the swamp. Large amounts of wood or charcoal evidence would abound. They don't just burn up and disappear. There would be huge pieces of charcoal from oak timbers. The wood used to build those vessels was so treasured and rare that there are no more old-growth oak forest left in North America. You couldn't build one today using the old methods. I got this information when visiting the U.S.S Constitution in Boston. Some of the oak pieces came from oak trees that were at least 4-5 feet in diameter.

Once the top "slop" is removed from the swamp, hard pack clay resides underneath. It looks clear that the bottom portion of the swamp (next to shore) is man-made. It appears a levy was constructed there for the road, remove the levy and it's now a tidal marshland area, probably never deep enough to accept the draft required for a large vessel, although possibly at high tide for smaller boats (even a low-draft Viking vessel). Iron pieces from ships being in the swamp area is interesting however, although I'm sure these ships were often cannibalized for parts/tools quite often.

I also find it interesting that although it looks as if the original shaft may now have been found, it looks 30 to 40 feet away from previous bore holes that were drilled last year. Yet materials such as pottery, book bindings and parchment paper have been discovered which date earlier than original hunters. This made me consider that either one of two things is going on; that other treasure shafts were constructed on the island, or that so many excavations have been performed that the soils surrounding the original vault have been degraded to the point that it's been turned into disturbed soil and treasure "soup".

Smith's Cove is just incredible. There's so much going on in there and I'm dumbfounded as to how they could've constructed the latest discovery, as it would've been several feet under the water, even at low tide. Looks like a wharf, pier or offloading dock of some sort. If only we had a time-machine.

I also know it's the most economic means to excavate the tunnel shaft, an 8-foot boring machine is not exactly a surgical method of extraction and I shudder to think of what will be destroyed if they indeed hit the original shaft. It's akin to finding Bigfoot alive and then chopping him up to see how he works. I'm sure Laird as an archaeologist hates this, but hey, everyone's gotta eat. Nevertheless, I do wish them luck and applaud the Lagina's for their efforts.

Jake

 

[Marti12]

I am one who has watched OI for the last 4 or 5 seasons with a heavy amount of doubt that anything happened there of significance. I still find it hard to believe a forgotten treasure lies in its soil. After tonight’s episode with the coconut fiber in the Smiths Cove highlands where the shaft was discovered has me flipping my opinion.

Smiths Cove has been completely undressed the last two seasons with the coffer damn up. But tell me how much coconut fiber has been found in any of the structures they uncovered there? Like the slipway or the L shaped or U shaped structures... NONE.
Yet they go up to the highlands and find it in noticeable amounts. Furthermore they carbon-14 dated the fiber found on SC and it resulted in a 95% Confidence factor of 1200’s to 1400’s. I guess it’s hard to determine the exact date due to a radiation decay factor. This new discovery has me re-thinking all of this again. A lot needs to be proven but it just begs the question. WHY!?!?

Much of my doubt has come from the supposed flood tunnels. The island is not very big, and if there’s one thing I know about water, it will seep into soil. I’m wondering if you dig 100 ft down on any part of the island, even lands west of the swamp, wouldn’t they also fill with water? You are going well below sea level.. If that is the case, I truly don’t believe anything could have been buried that deep on the island that long ago. It would have been a much bigger project than most people already think it would be.
So, if any shafts dug onto any part of the island would flood, the only place left I could imagine a treasure buried is in the swamp. -Great Segway-

They found a “Ship Shaped” anomaly in the swamp this offseason. Every time they drill or dig to it, they cannot get past a layer of super dense (maybe dry - not exactly sure ) material. Which is preventing them from actually getting to this anomaly. Furthermore, the geologist guy added this season Dr. Spooner (to evaluate the swamp) did indicate with some certainty after testing that the swamp was man-made and was constructed in the same time period as the coconut fibers found in SC.

So I have a WILD ‘what if’ I thought of...
What if the ship was scuttled in the swamp with the treasure (or whatever it is) onboard and once buried, added this material to the soil to harden it up to the dense hardened soil it is now. The only benefit to this is perhaps whatever is in the scuttled or sunken ship would have a sealant or barrier above to protect it’s contents below.

It’s a nasty swamp, who would of thought to look there for a treasure or for valuables right?

Lastly, IF TREASURE IS BURIED IN THE MONEY PIT...

The depositors had to be aware of the damage long term exposure to water would cause these items. I do remember recovery teams claimed that the vault was enclosed with wood and the outer layer was 2 ( or 3) feet think concrete. I imagine the soil that deep would be quite wet, the concrete suggestion does seem logical to protect the contents at this point.

Let’s pretend this is true.. IMO to truly recover this vault, the only real option they have at a safe recovery is to truly extract the vault from the ground. If they get down there and can visibly see and touch this vault, they still cannot guarantee the shaft being completely sealed off from water. If they open the vault underground they truly run the risk of the contents being damage by incoming water. So if they do get down there, I’m sure they can find a way to bolt on anchors. But you would have to construct a shaft wide enough to pull it out.. Who knows if they can even get a crane big enough on the island to lift something that large and heavy out of the ground.

I’m bummed nothing has been proven. It would be really neat if something cool happened there.
For a long time it just seemed like a fools trap. Someone started some sort of folk lore about the island to trick investors into funding a ‘Recovery Expedition’ on pure speculation and no factual evidence. One guy after another and another bought in to the romance of buried treasure and spends a large part of their life seeking gold. At the end of it all they realize gold was not enough and created theories about religious artifacts that would change history.. if they spent so long there, this couldn’t of just been for gold.. etc.

Honestly, I’m rooting for something. At this point I would be extremely bummed if it was just a treasure chest full of gold, silver, bronze, and jewels. Unless it’s 100 of them. Something done with this much complexity and ingenuity warrants something of much higher value.

To all of the real historians and treasure hunters out there, you have my respect.

Breaker Breaker,
Marti

 

[gazzahk]

Hmmm not meaning to be a skeptic here but it seems to be always around this time in the series that new members seem to join that have very positive views on why treasure may still be found. Often in the past these have included "rumors" of armored cars in the night... It has been speculated in the past that some of these people may have been working for the production company and posting to try to increase viewer interest in what has become a very dull show..

I struggle to believe that anyone can have found anything they have shown this season as supporting a) Treasure buried on oak Island or b) A ship buried in the swamp or c) evidence that the water in the money pit area came from a flood tunnel.

 

[Marti12]

I believe I may be considered one of these new members. I’ve always visited this website but my knowledge on the topics discussed here... let’s just say I was truly out of my league. But over the 5 years I’ve had interest in this topic I’d like to say I know enough give my two cents here.
That’s being said I do agree with you. It’s hard to believe something that significant happened on this tiny easily accessible island 200-800 years ago. Why would this island be the final resting point of something that valuable? I just can’t think of one.
I’m much likelier to believe that items of this magnitude and importance would be buried in tombs, rather than unprotected vaults.

Never the less, I do stick with what I said, I am truly hopeful that something significant is uncovered on this island. This can include everything from evidence leading us to a greater discovery elsewhere or even treasure or artifacts.

History is something I root for, id rather learn the story in the long run.
That’s why I visit this site often. Several members here post some really valuable info you don’t learn in everyday history class.

Breaker Breaker,
Marti

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

The sad thing is that if anything is there that has other than an easy exchange rate (i.e.: gold, jewels) it will have no historical significance because these clowns and the dozens of diggers prior have so disturbed and contaminated the site that it will never be unraveled to show how or why it may have been placed there.

Imagine it was a buried library in some clever vault that kept out groundwater and contamination . . . until it got perforated by drills and caissons and is now just ruined muck.

But I really still doubt anything man made was placed very deep there BEFORE folks started chasing dreams.

Could be a ship in the swamp. Not uncommon to put a derelict hull in a shallow spot so it could be stripped of useful fittings - or even burned so the brass and iron nails and spikes could be savaged. Happened about anywhere there is a coastline. Wooden ships get rotten, tired and too bothersome to keep repairing.

 

[ECS]

...
History is something I root for, id rather learn the story in the long run.
That’s why I visit this site often.
Several members here post some really valuable info you don’t learn in everyday history class.

...and several post pure speculative nonsense posing as "fact" that will be learned in a legitimate history class.

 

[SSR]

Christopher Columbus's wife was Dona Felipa Moniz Perestrelo, a Portuguese noblewoman, whose father, Bartolomeu Perestrelo was the governor of Porto Santo, and was a Knight of Santiago, a Catholic Order, not a Templar.
His father was from a long family line in Lombardy Italy, and was a Lombard Knight, and this family had no connection to Henry Sinclair or to the Templars.
Diego grandmother was Isabel Moniz Perestrelo, and at an early age, Diego was a Page to Prince Don Juan, and later to Queen Isabella.

Many, and I mean many, Sinclair theorists confuse the Portugese explorer Prince Henry of Portugal to their hero. Any map that can be found with a link to Prince Henry is almost always served up as a Prince Henry Sinclair suggestion in the New World. From Prince Henry they imagine all sort of links in Europe.

 

[SSR]

What is there: A mystery constructed to be a mystery in the tradition of European esoteric mysteries.

By who: Persons belonging to a group of Scottish Freemasons that first originated in one military regiment in Ireland and that were re-stationed to Nova Scotia post 1761 for its defense. These individuals and their immediate descendants became the architects of the story.

What was used to create it : The original surveying of the island in 1758 and ideas found in freemasonry taken from the reform period in Germany that relate to geometry/cosmology/numerology and music (harmony). That is the framework for the story.

What is it: It's a quest story based on the medieval quest for symbolic Holy relics as described by Wolfram Von Eschenbach. It's an exercise to guide you towards finding the inner chamber of the nine levels of your inner being as it is described in the myth of Enoch and his vault under the symbolic pillars of knowledge.

When was it first written about to call it out for what it is: About 1845 by the Nova Scotian political figure and historian, Thomas C. Haliburton.

When was the story first acted upon and exploited publicly: About 1857, when the entire thing was reverse engineered to start to appear in the media as a true historical narrative as soon as John Smith had died, allowing for unverified things to be alleged to have occurred on his land 40 years earlier.

Why was it done: To promote the sales of shares to a population that was enamored with freemasonry during the mid 19th century esoteric revival period and with existing rumors of a treasure in Chester Bay, aka to defraud unsuspecting but willing victims.

Was fraud alleged: yes

Why did it continue: It didn't. Initially it was short lived. It continued to reappear as different things to different search groups. It reappeared as a search for Shakespeare's documents in the 1890s and 1930s. It continues to reappear in our century after starts and fits.

Will it ever end: No

Why won't it ever end: There's no resolution on the ground. The searches continue to exploit the existence of previous searches as the basis for an expanded search narrative. The size of the endeavor is used as a proof of the validity of it, and never more as today.

Can you get a good description of what happened with OI, the people involved, what it means and what the mystery was built around: Sure, go read Haliburton's "The Old Judge",Vol. I and II. It's free on-line if that interests you. He touches it all. Everything that is an origin story for this mystery is taken from his work. He also predicted men would die in shafts in Chester Bay looking for a "treasure" they did not understand the nature of after falling victim to dubious suggestions they planted into their own heads. His works are allegories to give you the nature of the treasure quest there in the literary tradition of the Pilgrim's progress.

What is up with all the finds on OI: it's all colonial activity relating to the arrival of the first colonials ca. 1750s.

What is with all the contradicting suggestions: They are all suggestion meant for you to accept if you would. If you accept them unconditionally you have jumped the gun and will waste your life trying to find the evidence that supports what you assume is there.

Is the OI story completely understandable: In my estimation, yes.

Do most people do work to understand it: No

Why not: no one talks to them about what has been written about it before there was ever a search on OI in 1857-58. The talk about OI history starts in 1861, and it is revisionist.

Is this my explanation: no

Why do I know about it: I read Halliburton and looked into what he says.

Is he reliable: I think so, because he mocked these people and what they were up to. You can verify what he says.

Why didn't he put a stop to it: he was a prankster himself and relished seeing fools making mistakes. That is what I take most from Halliburton. I'm not so sure he wasn't in on it. Haliburton truly disliked the common man and refused to fraternize with him. When you read his stories you will see plenty of examples of the ridiculing of average characters one would have encountered in Nova Scotia at the time. Above all he was an elitist who had very little regard for the average man's intellect.

 

[petetherocker]

 

[ECS]

...
There are a whole bunch of avenues that will lead one to where the Ark of the Covenant of God is located.

First, solve the mystery of the Beale Treasure and it's encoded DOI
Second, go against all your believes you have ever learned in life.
Three, Decode the KJV of the Holy Bible.
Four, Learn everything you can about our Founding Fathers and how this country was formed.
Fifth, Learn everything about the Rosary Cross, Rosalyn Chapel, Knight's Templar especially about 1307, then learn of the freemasons in America.
Sixth, You will have to know Gematria. Decipher the folios, sonnets of Shakespeare. Read all the books by Sir Walter Raleigh.
Seventh, Learn about Herdewke and Ralph de Sudeley and his sons. Especially the one called "Atoul" which is "Atwell"
Eighth, Read everything about Christopher Columbus. Also the voyage of the Mayflower and her personal log.
Ninth, Everything you can read on Jamestown, Williamsburg, Plymouth Rock, Philadelphia and Washington, D.C.
Tenth, Do all of this in reverse and add another 99 items to read and learn.
Then you will be able to find out where the Ark of the Covenant of God is located today.

Don't pass GO, and Don't collect $200.00

 

[ECS]

... Hidden secrets are hidden from those that have a closed mind.
There are secrets on top of secrets I could reveal to the World but no one wants or even cares to hear them.
It would do me no good to reveal these secrets to someone as yourself with a closed mind, so you know what I will keep them to myself, document them and one day someone may have the ability to understand them.
But you would never understand.
I can not quote things from the KJV of The Holy Bible or anything to verify what I claim as it is against forum rules.
It is amazing to know all these things and there is absolutely no one to share them with?

As I understand it, it is not against the rules if presented in a non religious way like revealing alleged codes placed in verse by Francis Bacon that lead to treasure on Oak Island.

 

[franklin]

As I understand it, it is not against the rules if presented in a non religious way like revealing alleged codes placed in verse by Francis Bacon that lead to treasure on Oak Island.

Petter Admundsen already did that for you and you still do not believe. He wrote at least two books and did at least 3 different videos of the "Seven Steps to Mercy" and you still do not believe? So you tell me how any post can be made that you would believe?

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

Petter Admundsen already did that for you and you still do not believe. He wrote at least two books and did at least 3 different videos of the "Seven Steps to Mercy" and you still do not believe? So you tell me how any post can be made that you would believe?

Amundsen has been proven to have only written fiction.....

 

[ECS]

... What you must remember when we research we start with those easy found facts to solve the unknown facts.
That is the difference between what you do and what we do when we research...

Reading pseudo-history books by Muir, Halpern, Wilson & Blacknett, or watching the videos of Wolter and Amundsen then posting their unproven unsupported alternative speculation as fact is NOT what anyone considers as original research.
There is a difference between what you do and what professional history academics and scholars do when they research.

 

[franklin]

Reading pseudo-history books by Muir, Halpern, Wilson & Blacknett, or watching the videos of Wolter and Amundsen then posting their unproven unsupported alternative speculation as fact is NOT what anyone considers as original research.
There is a difference between what you do and what professional history academics and scholars do when they research.

Why do you keep posting the same crap? Damn man like a fu--ing recording.

 

[ECS]

Why do you keep posting the same crap? Damn man like a fu--ing recording.

Because you keep posting the same fictional junk history.