PARATI DEFENDERE BADGE - Specialist Advice needed!

[CRUSADER]

A fellow UK detectorist found this Badge. Those in the know will realise the significance of this find. So my question is, how much is it worth? Plus which is the best place to sell it (please don't suggest ebay, I know there must be better!).

Thanks

 

[Mackaydon]

For those who may not know (like me ten minutes ago):
The pirate's head crest was first used by the 6th composite group in the Panama Canal Zone and represents Jean Lafitte who helped Major General Andrew Jackson defeat the British in "The Battle of New Orleans" during "The War of 1812". Jean Lafitte was a legendary smuggler, privateer and patriot that preyed on Spanish ships in the Gulf of Mexico. The "Parati Defendere" pin shown above was the most sought after of all military pins in the early 1930s by Canal Zone (CZ) "Brats". The pirate insignia also appeared on virtually all B-29s assigned to the 6th Bombardment Group based on the island of Tinian during WWII.

Don.....
Source: http://community-2.webtv.net/@HH!07!A3!9709C6A4049F/RC135/6thSRW/

Edit: This site may also be of interest to you CRU, notwithstanding the eBay connection:'
http://cgi.cafr.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150400740092

 

[IronSpike]

For those who may not know (like me ten minutes ago):
The pirate's head crest was first used by the 6th composite group in the Panama Canal Zone and represents Jean Lafitte who helped Major General Andrew Jackson defeat the British in "The Battle of New Orleans" during "The War of 1812". Jean Lafitte was a legendary smuggler, privateer and patriot that preyed on Spanish ships in the Gulf of Mexico. The "Parati Defendere" pin shown above was the most sought after of all military pins in the early 1930s by Canal Zone (CZ) "Brats". The pirate insignia also appeared on virtually all B-29s assigned to the 6th Bombardment Group based on the island of Tinian during WWII.

Don.....
Source: http://community-2.webtv.net/@HH!07!A3!9709C6A4049F/RC135/6thSRW/

Checked out the same link as posted by Don. Bet they would know where to sell the badge. There's a pin badge posted on the link.

 

[Iron Patch]

What's wrong with Ebay? There's plenty of collectors that can throw down a few hundred or whatever it's worth. But even if it was worth 10k that wouldn't stop me. When you can list an item at a fixed price and accept best offer there is no place better to sell! At an auction house you'll pay way more for fees and possibly lose a bit on the hammer price with the bidders taking into account the buying premium they'll be nailed with.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Interesting find no way would he get the true value from ebay, if it is a very rare item, Unless it was listed from a reliable source, real collectors wouldn't be interested or be very weary, it's the same with rare coins. Sending it to auction would be the best way, but more expensive, but you get better coverage by catalogue listings etc.

SS

 

[Iron Patch]

Interesting find no way would he get the true value from ebay, if it is a very rare item, Unless it was listed from a reliable source, real collectors wouldn't be interested or be very weary, it's the same with rare coins. Sending it to auction would be the best way, but more expensive, but you get better coverage by catalogue listings etc.

SS

No offense meant, but you have no idea what you are talking about!

 

[Silver Searcher]

Interesting find no way would he get the true value from ebay, if it is a very rare item, Unless it was listed from a reliable source, real collectors wouldn't be interested or be very weary, it's the same with rare coins. Sending it to auction would be the best way, but more expensive, but you get better coverage by catalogue listings etc.

SS

No offense meant, but you have no idea what you are talking about!

I suppose you have......enlighten me.

 

[Iron Patch]

Interesting find no way would he get the true value from ebay, if it is a very rare item, Unless it was listed from a reliable source, real collectors wouldn't be interested or be very weary, it's the same with rare coins. Sending it to auction would be the best way, but more expensive, but you get better coverage by catalogue listings etc.

SS

No offense meant, but you have no idea what you are talking about!

I suppose you have......enlighten me.

I really don't know what to tell you other than I completely disagree. Do you think the most serious collectors aren't on Ebay? When you have a rare item you obviously have to do your homework, but once you find out all you can it doesn't matter if you sell it through Stacks, Ebay, or to a guy with a funny beard in a Burger King bathroom. You'll play the same game for price no matter where you sell. The game being to get the most someone will pay, but also protect yourself at the same time. It can be pretty costly if your item does not meet the reserve when dealing with an auuction house. (but next to nothing on the E, not to mention you can relist the next week)

I think sometimes when an auction house has a good crowd of high end bidders bidding wars and ego can boost the price, but my first comments were based on the item above which I assume is well under $1,000. For something worth a serious amout of money I probably would do an auction house because collectors obviously prefer to see things in person compared to a picture.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Interesting find no way would he get the true value from ebay, if it is a very rare item, Unless it was listed from a reliable source, real collectors wouldn't be interested or be very weary, it's the same with rare coins. Sending it to auction would be the best way, but more expensive, but you get better coverage by catalogue listings etc.

SS

No offense meant, but you have no idea what you are talking about!

I suppose you have......enlighten me.

I really don't know what to tell you other than I completely disagree. Do you not think the most serious collectors aren't on Ebay? When you have a rare item you obviously have to do your homework, but once you find out all you can it doesn't matter if you sell it through Stacks, Ebay, or to a guy with a funny beard in a Burger King bathroom. You'll play the same game for price no matter where you sell.

I may be wrong but I wouldn't have thought that the real serious collectors ever buy from ebay, they would rather buy from the auction rooms such as Bonhams or Christies, at least here there is a 100% gaurantee the item is genuine. where's the safety (100%) with ebay

SS

 

[Iron Patch]

Interesting find no way would he get the true value from ebay, if it is a very rare item, Unless it was listed from a reliable source, real collectors wouldn't be interested or be very weary, it's the same with rare coins. Sending it to auction would be the best way, but more expensive, but you get better coverage by catalogue listings etc.

SS

No offense meant, but you have no idea what you are talking about!

I suppose you have......enlighten me.

I really don't know what to tell you other than I completely disagree. Do you not think the most serious collectors aren't on Ebay? When you have a rare item you obviously have to do your homework, but once you find out all you can it doesn't matter if you sell it through Stacks, Ebay, or to a guy with a funny beard in a Burger King bathroom. You'll play the same game for price no matter where you sell.

I may be wrong but I wouldn't have thought that the real serious collectors ever buy from ebay, they would rather buy from the auction rooms such as Bonhams or Christies, at least here there is a 100% gaurantee the item is genuine. where's the safety (100%) with ebay

SS

I've bought for years, don't have near as much experience as the people who seriously collect a particular item, but I very rarely get fooled, if ever. You have to remember collecting is like a disease, people who want the goods don't give a damn where they are getting them from. Can you give an example of something on Ebay to be fearful from? I honestly can't think of a single thing I would be scared to buy from a clear picture. There's two types of collectors that I guarantee many of the the biggest check Ebay, they are early military buttons and counterfeit coins. I know this because you can check everywhere you want and not find people that will pay more.

Again I'm talking maybe $100-$5,000 items. More than that I give it more thought. But if I know what it's worth, like I said it doesn't matter where you sell it as long as you get your price.

 

[Silver Searcher]

I guess it's coins I'm mainly refering to, I know of one piticular guy from mr area who listed a Gold Saxon tremesis, it only reached £800,on ebay, a London coin dealer had watched it but never bid, the lister withdrew the coin. The dealer then contacted the local buyer of coins up our way,to contact the finder and offer him £1000, and the local buyer £100 for taking it down to him. The dealer sold the coin the very next day to a collector for £2500, this story was told to me by the dealer himself, my point is why wasn't the coin bought by a collector I think they would rather pay more from the dealer, or auction house and let them take the chances.

SS

 

[DCMatt]

Interesting find no way would he get the true value from eBay, if it is a very rare item, Unless it was listed from a reliable source, real collectors wouldn't be interested or be very weary, it's the same with rare coins. Sending it to auction would be the best way, but more expensive, but you get better coverage by catalogue listings etc.

SS

No offense meant, but you have no idea what you are talking about!

I suppose you have......enlighten me.

I really don't know what to tell you other than I completely disagree. Do you not think the most serious collectors aren't on EBay? When you have a rare item you obviously have to do your homework, but once you find out all you can it doesn't matter if you sell it through Stacks, EBay, or to a guy with a funny beard in a Burger King bathroom. You'll play the same game for price no matter where you sell.

I may be wrong but I wouldn't have thought that the real serious collectors ever buy from eBay, they would rather buy from the auction rooms such as Bonhams or Christies, at least here there is a 100% gaurantee the item is genuine. where's the safety (100%) with eBay

SS

I have a friend who used to sell highly collectible baseball and hockey cards on EBay. He also travelled around to all the shows selling such items. Through the shows he was able to build an excellent reputation regarding the quality of the cards and memorabilia he sold. His auctions on EBay commanded top dollar from serious collectors.

I own antique cars and am connected with that crowd. While I don't personally know anyone I would consider a "serious collector" of antique cars, I can assure you those serious collectors (or their proxies) are on EBay everyday looking for additions to their collections.

DCMatt

P.S. I thought this badge was the Captain Morgan rum pirate.

 

[CRUSADER]

Interesting find no way would he get the true value from ebay, if it is a very rare item, Unless it was listed from a reliable source, real collectors wouldn't be interested or be very weary, it's the same with rare coins. Sending it to auction would be the best way, but more expensive, but you get better coverage by catalogue listings etc.

SS

My thoughts lie somewhere between the two. I'm thinking some of the serious collectors may not be on ebay & that a specialist sale might attract the right interest.

 

[Breezie]

So what is the 'ballpark' value of it? Are you talking $500.00 or under or $5,000.00 plus or what? Breezie

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Can you give an example of something on Ebay to be fearful from? I honestly can't think of a single thing I would be scared to buy from a clear picture.

I bought an antique plane on eBay. Good clear pics from most every angle but the seller forgot to mention a hairline crack that couldnt be seen which made the plane worthless. Its not the same buying from a pic as seeing it in person. I didnt know until it arrived but I was able to get my money back. I have heard of instances where the shipment never arrives. I shipped myself to Italy and it never arrived. There are straight out fraudulant sellers on eBay no doubt but you try to judge sellers by their feedback ratings.. I believe a rip off can occur to anybody even the most experienced.

 

[cw0909]

yours looks like the one from ebay, yet ebay seller says his looks, exactly like the webtv one.
so is it possible that the Parati Defendere was made in two different styles. does yours have
the same marking/stamp on the back, as this may help determine the value. i think a military
collector would be the most interested. and they may know how many dif styles that were made
anyway thats my 2Cs, prob not worth much more


backside
http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages...ages=332697195,332697225&formats=0,0&format=0

front
http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages...ages=332697195,332697225&formats=0,0&format=0

translated pg
http://cgi.cafr.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150400740092

 

[Iron Patch]

Can you give an example of something on Ebay to be fearful from? I honestly can't think of a single thing I would be scared to buy from a clear picture.

I bought an antique plane on eBay. Good clear pics from most every angle but the seller forgot to mention a hairline crack that couldnt be seen which made the plane worthless. Its not the same buying from a pic as seeing it in person. I didnt know until it arrived but I was able to get my money back. I have heard of instances where the shipment never arrives. I shipped myself to Italy and it never arrived. There are straight out fraudulant sellers on eBay no doubt but you try to judge sellers by their feedback ratings.. I believe a rip off can occur to anybody even the most experienced.

Big difference bewteen looking at a plane vs a coin or button. I'd definitely be asking lots of questions and pay with Paypal if buying a plane that could have any number of hidden things wrong with it. Italy seems by far the worse place in Europe to ship to and I've read many accounts of lost items. I would not ship anything of value there... or buy for that matter.

PS... I actually do recall buying something from Italy. It arrived ok, but did customs ever smoke me. It was here I was charged the fees, but they nailed me for everything they coould, and even some stuff they couldn't. I probably could have fought it, but the $50 in the difference just wasn't worth it to me. I hate having to deal with claims crap like that.

 

[Harry_Morant]

If the serious buyer don't buy off Ebay then why can I buy coins from a very reputable specialist coin auction house and resell them on Ebay making an average 25% profit up to 300% profit. Its all about doing a lot of research and not being caught up in a bidding war above the value of the item. Not all ebayers are out there to rip people off but the fraudsters can be found anywhere including the big auction houses who have also been duped into selling forged or stolen art works or talk up an item depite knowing that its a reproduction etc. I sold about $40000 of coins and collectibles on Ebay last year and every one of them had multiple high quality photos, detailed descriptions and and all faults (very rare) identified up front.

I know serious collectors buy from me - one of my items has recently ended up in a museum in the UK (see below - Salvation Army Long Service Medal from 1913). There are some badges and items which I would dearly like to own but are as rare as hens teeth so there are tools on Ebay that tell me when one is listed anywhere in the world - Ebay is a great tool for collectors make no mistake. But only buy from people who have a good reputation - check their feedback and the comments left.

There are serious collectors on Ebay and you are dealing with a huge market whereas for the pirate badge you need the right collector to be there at the local auction. Not meaning to cause any offence but I don't believe the pirate badge would even be accepted by the big names like Sotherbys or Christies but a specialist militaria auction would probably accept it if they thought they could get a decent commission from it but you'd probably command a better price if sold in the US (less postage and insurance) I regularly sell militaria and this includes some very attractive and rare WWII badges. I would put the Pirate badge in the $40-80 bracket but I wouldn't think it would be worth much more than that. Sure, rare items may well get a premium at a specialist auction but you may have to wait months after sending your item off before it is auctioned, pay up to 25% commission and then wait another month to get the check.

You can set a reserve price on Ebay - block buyers from undesirable countries or who have unpaid item strikes etc, get paid quickly and securely. It is of course ultimately up to you - may I suggest getting onto a specialist forum like - WW2 Militaria Collectors which is full of experts in WWII items and there's bound to be someone who can give you more info on your badge.

Cheers and good luck!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Big difference bewteen looking at a plane vs a coin or button. I'd definitely be asking lots of questions and pay with Paypal if buying a plane that could have any number of hidden things wrong with it. Italy seems by far the worse place in Europe to ship to and I've read many accounts of lost items. I would not ship anything of value there... or buy for that matter.

PS... I actually do recall buying something from Italy. It arrived ok, but did customs ever smoke me. It was here I was charged the fees, but they nailed me for everything they coould, and even some stuff they couldn't. I probably could have fought it, but the $50 in the difference just wasn't worth it to me. I hate having to deal with claims crap like that.

Ill remember to block Italy. Two others that come to mind are Mexico and Colombia. Chances are it will never arrive. I actually shipped to Colombia a few times and one time my package was returned 3 months later opened and smashed. They also stabbed it with an ice pic. UPS told me that my package actually arrived in Colombia where I could no longer trace it. I dont know why they wouldnt deliver it. I had to refund the money.

 

[Iron Patch]

Big difference between looking at a plane vs a coin or button. I'd definitely be asking lots of questions and pay with Paypal if buying a plane that could have any number of hidden things wrong with it. Italy seems by far the worse place in Europe to ship to and I've read many accounts of lost items. I would not ship anything of value there... or buy for that matter.

PS... I actually do recall buying something from Italy. It arrived ok, but did customs ever smoke me. It was here I was charged the fees, but they nailed me for everything they could, and even some stuff they couldn't. I probably could have fought it, but the $50 in the difference just wasn't worth it to me. I hate having to deal with claims crap like that.

Ill remember to block Italy. Two others that come to mind are Mexico and Colombia. Chances are it will never arrive. I actually shipped to Colombia a few times and one time my package was returned 3 months later opened and smashed. They also stabbed it with an ice pic. UPS told me that my package actually arrived in Colombia where I could no longer trace it. I donut know why they wouldn't deliver it. I had to refund the money.

For about 8 years Asia is the only place I would not ship to, and if the person wrote and asked, depending on their history I would make a choice. All ended up being in favor of sending to them. I've sent a heck of a lot of packages to many places with so few issues I can't even remember one to quote because it wasn't a big deal. The money I've lost to fraud or packages being lost is such a small % I'd be a fool to spend any time on it, it would have cost me money to do so. Every business on the face of the earth has losses in one way or the other so it makes no sense when people post their problems as if Ebay is suppose to be perfect. I'm not implying you are one of these people, but if you read some of the posts they lose $10 for shipping and it's the end of the world. I know I'll lose money, it's a fact, so I just try to minimize it the best I can. Heck I've paid more in fees in one day than I've probably lost in 8 years.