Penetanguishene Ontario the Jesuit chest in River Wye

[jeff of pa]

from Evening public ledger. (Philadelphia [Pa.]), 23 June 1922



Evening public ledger. (Philadelphia [Pa.]) 1914-1942, June 23, 1922, Night Extra, Page 4, Image 4 « Chronicling America « Library of Congress

 

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[Hal Croves]

An interesting story to learn with a fascinating twist.

 

[Hal Croves]

An interesting story to learn with a fascinating twist.

A “Jesuit Treasure” story.

 

[Hal Croves]

hard to read but

from Evening public ledger. (Philadelphia [Pa.]), 23 June 1922

View attachment 1142504

Evening public ledger. (Philadelphia [Pa.]) 1914-1942, June 23, 1922, Night Extra, Page 4, Image 4 « Chronicling America « Library of Congress

Jeff,
if you put this into Jesuit Treasures, I will tell the story as I know it.
The story needs to be scrutinized and there it will be.

 

[jeff of pa]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/j...treasure-hunt-delayed-1922-a.html#post6676067

 

[pepperj]

 

[Hal Croves]

View attachment 1896720

Yes, but the story as I know it has a much different ending.
To appreciate it, I would want someone BS checking what I say.
Mike or someone with equal understanding of Jesuit behaviors.

 

[Hal Croves]

View attachment 1896720

ppperj and jeff of pa,

A good way to start is to tell you that there was a Jesuit working, monitoring is a better word, alongside Captain Carson on his barge the “Baltic”. It’s supposition as I wasn’t there, but something is recovered and it’s kept quiet. The “rock” that was hoisted was a way of killing the story. It does and the treasure hunt is forgotten. (Note) reputations were ruined but not Captain Carson.. later.

That Jesuit is soon exiled to a small village named Wilcox in Sasakatchewan. Financially, socially, it’s bleak.
His superiors joke that he was “lent out”.

pepperj, assuming you are Canadian and the name might mean something to you, the Jesuit was Athol Père Murray.
About as determined as a man could be. Or angry.

 

[Hal Croves]

ppperj and jeff of pa,

A good way to start is to tell you that there was a Jesuit working, monitoring is a better word, alongside Captain Carson on his barge the “Baltic”. It’s supposition as I wasn’t there, but something is recovered and it’s kept quiet. The “rock” that was hoisted was a way of killing the story. It does and the treasure hunt is forgotten. (Note) reputations were ruined but not Captain Carson.. later.

That Jesuit is soon exiled to a small village named Wilcox in Sasakatchewan. Financially, socially, it’s bleak.
His superiors joke that he was “lent out”.

pepperj, assuming you are Canadian and the name might mean something to you, the Jesuit was Athol Père Murray.
About as determined a man could be. Or angry.

A quick note, we know Murray was on site in June, you can prove that yourself if you look.
I asked officials to confirm the month of Murray’s arrival in Saskatchewan (1922) and they will not.

 

[releventchair]

SUNDAY READ: Pere Murray and His Loyal Hounds

 

[Hal Croves]

Captain Carson heard the story of Jesuits fleeing their mission after setting it on fire to prevent desecration by the ”Iroquois”. One of their Jesuit paddled canoes turns over, with a chest of valuables, in the river, the site of Captain Carson's search area.

The story is historicallyl true with the exception of the capsized canoe. But there is compelling evidence that the capsized canoe story is also true, that the chest of treasure was recovered. The first and most telling fact is that Murray took part in a treasure hunt, a local legend. Mike, who knows their history will not be able to offer you the name of a Jesuit who went searching for lost treasure.

Unless he can.

 

[Hal Croves]

SUNDAY READ: Pere Murray and His Loyal Hounds

Murray is fascinating. He describes his sense of always feeling alone” since four, after loosing his mother.
Canadian tough.
So, here is a talented Jesuit who takes part in a failed treasure hunt, is “lent out” within six months of the search to a remote and cold place.

Money was tight in 1922.
Whats Murrays motivation?
What’s driving his accomplishments?
Hockey is not typically a Jesuit pursuit. Except for Murray.

I think that Murray had a diffidence disorder and channeled his anger through challenge.
A loyal Jesuit.

 

[releventchair]

Murray is fascinating. He describes his sense of always feeling alone” since four, after loosing his mother.
Canadian tough.
So, here is a talented Jesuit who takes part in a failed treasure hunt, is “lent out” within six months of the search to a remote and cold place.

Money was tight in 1922.
Whats Murrays motivation?
What’s driving his accomplishments?
Hockey is not typically a Jesuit pursuit. Except for Murray.

I think that Murray had a diffidence disorder and channeled his anger through challenge.
A loyal Jesuit.

Sometimes channeling a strong emotion indirectly into an effort can increase the efforts results.
I don't speak for the Father , but speculate at risk...
He did believe (it is written anyways) in physical activity and strength through such as a balance to academic study.

He was enmeshed in religious schooling. Not a bad thing in his line.
Hockey fit the activity level , by locale.

The motto he adopted for the school fit the timing/era of the depression. But complimented himself too. Alleged to claim that even angels had to struggle.
" Luctor et Emergo "
I struggle , and emerge.

 

[Hal Croves]

Murray’s exile isn’t enough to prove the idea of a discreet recovery.

What the Jesuits do after the failed search, where and how they do it, in an objective mind, leans to recovery. But again it’s a local tale, that seems to be highly accurate and riddled with historical coincidences.

1922 was a difficult year, financially. The Jesuits, after 1922 have money and they use it locally.


Captain Carson wasn’t using an old map. His search was based on legend and a form of technology that few people understand. A systematic search was done and this technology (a strange looking device) pinpointed the lost chest of Jesuit treasure. The Baltic arrived and excavated a channel to the site.

The Captain was also a professional diver.

The inventor of the treasure finding device was, in my opinion, sacrificed, at least his reputation was.

 

[Hal Croves]

Sometimes channeling a strong emotion indirectly into an effort can increase the efforts results.
I don't speak for the Father , but speculate at risk...
He did believe (it is written anyways) in physical activity and strength through such as a balance to academic study.

He was enmeshed in religious schooling. Not a bad thing in his line.
Hockey fit the activity level , by locale.

The motto he adopted for the school fit the timing/era of the depression. But complimented himself too. Alleged to claim that even angels had to struggle.
" Luctor et Emergo "
I struggle , and emerge.

Captain Carson struggled and emerged.
With a rock we know but a chest of valuables would give that motto new meaning.

Symbolism in Jesuit design is something that can be measured.

Let me give one simple yet “wow” example..
Is anyone reading this familiar with architecture?

 

[Hal Croves]

It’s 1925. Three years have passed since the failed search.
The Jesuits decide that they need to honor their dead with a shrine.
The Jesuits buy the Standen Brothers farm that overlooks the site of their sacred burnt mission. At the head of the river.
The shrine is built using local shipbuilders and the roof timbers are curved as opposed to straight cut.
They are intentionally curved to resemble the shape of an inverted canoe,
an added expense.

Found treasure or not the Provincial Superior of English speaking Canada, John M. Filion acted as his own architect. Years later he laughs at the ceilings rustic design (an inverted canoe) and not having enough birch to finish it properly.

These are all facts.

A shrine with its ceiling shaped to resemble an inverted canoe.
At the head of a river where a canoe overturned in story.

 

[releventchair]

[The work of evacuating Ste Marie began early in May, and
on the 15th of the month the buildings were set on fire.
The valuables of the mission were placed in a large boat
and on rafts; and, with heavy hearts, the fathers and
their helpers went aboard for the journey to their new
home twenty miles away.]

Paul Ragueneau , Superior of the mission when it was abandoned did not note a loss of valuables. But would have known of such.

 

[Hal Croves]

[The work of evacuating Ste Marie began early in May, and
on the 15th of the month the buildings were set on fire.
The valuables of the mission were placed in a large boat
and on rafts; and, with heavy hearts, the fathers and
their helpers went aboard for the journey to their new
home twenty miles away.]

Paul Ragueneau , Superior of the mission when it was abandoned did not note a loss of valuables. But would have known of such.

A large raft was constructed and several canoes were launched for new and remote locations. Others walked.
The island is reached, and a note is made “without incident”.

My understanding is that “reports” were written in French or Latin and heavily edited before being released for translation.
Have you read the original?

 

[releventchair]

A large raft was constructed and several canoes were launched for new and remote locations. Others walked.
The island is reached, and a note is made “without incident”.

My understanding is that “reports” were written in French or Latin and heavily edited before being released for translation.
Have you read the original?

No. I have not.
read some of the translated Jesuit relations , but that got "heavy" after a while. (!)
I was chasing Allouez at the time ,and had seen a mission in the Nipigon region when on a fishing trip up there.
Later built a handful of notes of old posts and forts as they were in the area we liked to fish.
Brought a metal detector on the next trip , and thought better of holding a relic I didn't need to take out of the country. Let alone the border.... So the detector stayed in the truck.

 

[Hal Croves]

No. I have not.
read some of the translated Jesuit relations , but that got "heavy" after a while. (!)
I was chasing Allouez at the time ,and had seen a mission in the Nipigon region when on a fishing trip up there.
Later built a handful of notes of old posts and forts as they were in the area we liked to fish.
Brought a metal detector on the next trip , and thought better of holding a relic I didn't need to take out of the country. Let alone the border.... So the detector stayed in the truck.

I agree with you that a note would have been made of the loss.
But the loss would not have been made public.

It is a story. But having a Jesuit on the Baltic during a treasure hunt for something that was never lost makes no sense.
Spending the extra money to build a ceiling in the shape of an inverted canoe makes no financial sense.
Exiling Murray, the timing is coincidental.