Persistent Claims of a Hoax

[gazzahk]

With this discussion of Petter Amundsen I just read this summary of his speculations AuthorStory: Petter Amundsen and the Oak Island Treasure Revealed in Hidden Codes in Shakespeare I see that his qualification is

Petter Amundsen is a church pipe organist by profession,

What makes anyone think that his wacko theory is true? There is nothing to support this strange/weird speculative guess... Given an infinite amount of starts I reckon its possible to find "proof" of anything in them..... His whole theory seems based on

The pattern he found is a square-and-compass celestial pattern that mimics some aspects of some societies such as those of the Masons,

To me this seems another looney theory with no basis in fact or evidence dreamed up by someone who had never even visited OI prior to making up his story...

 

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[gazzahk]

Which in turn makes this whole thing real. NOT A HOAX....

It depends on what we are discussing when talking of a HOAX. I agree that most/many of the people who have sought treasure on OI over the past 200 or so years believed treasure existed at OI.

I believe the descendants believe their story that the first three guys found some treasure buried at around 10 ft (I also accept that this does not make this story true)

I accept that Sam Ball appears to have gained wealth when living on OI and one possible explanation is he found treasure there (but there are also many other equally plausible explanations of the source of the wealth).

I believe that the Laginas probably begun their search believing that treasure may exist (well at least Rick did).

I now believe the TV show "The Curse of Oak Island" is trying to deceive and mislead viewers with their findings/evidence. This is what I believe can be referred to as a HOAX. It is not the history it is the TV show that is no longer accurately trying to represent the history of the island...

 

[franklin]

With this discussion of Petter Amundsen I just read this summary of his speculations AuthorStory: Petter Amundsen and the Oak Island Treasure Revealed in Hidden Codes in Shakespeare I see that his qualification is What makes anyone think that his wacko theory is true? There is nothing to support this strange/weird speculative guess... Given an infinite amount of starts I reckon its possible to find "proof" of anything in them..... His whole theory seems based on

To me this seems another looney theory with no basis in fact or evidence dreamed up by someone who had never even visited OI prior to making up his story...

Strange that is all you found out of all his work. I have been studying and reading for the past two weeks and I am going to keep on reading it over and over and watching his four each one hour documentaries and his three shows on youtube. I simply love everything this man whom I will say is nothing less than "GENIUS" If you read and study his work instead of "Oh it can't be true" then you might find out how ignorant people have been for the past 400 years not to see it right in front of their eyes. The Shakespeare experts and college professors should go to Petter and learn something about Shakespeare from someone that knows what he is talking about. I do not care how you ridicule the man or myself but you need to study his work.

 

[n2mini]

I some what agree with that. Yes they are at times greatly taking liberties with info and findings, which they shouldn't do. They are still actively searching though for what they think is a real search of treasure and I believe that part.. I can look past some of it as just being TV..

 

[Raparee]

and surely most of ya'll can believe that Samuel Ball didn't become wealthy from farming just cabbage, it makes sense that he did find some sort of treasure..

Why is it so hard to believe that Bell could have made his fortune through farming. It's not like he would have been the first to do so.

 

[Robot]

Oh My...Give Me Strength!

Why is it so hard to believe that Bell could have made his fortune through farming. It's not like he would have been the first to do so.

Cabbage in Nova Scotia was not the "Main Staple"!

Even today...Cabbage is one of the lowest priced vegetables.

Excerpt:
Flour in barrels was imported from Boston and southern American ports. Moorsom observed that local farmers grew wheat, oats, barley, peas, buckwheat and rye. Potato was the main vegetable, although large quantities of Indian corn were also raised. According to Moorsom, beans and cabbage were seldom grown. His English upbringing was revealed in his amusement whenever children were asked to go out and pick a basket of strawberries, raspberries or gooseberries — not from the garden as one would in England, but from the woods where they grew wild in abundance.
John McGregor also observed the edibles available in early 19th century Halifax in his Historical and Descriptive Sketches of the Maritime Colonies of British America (1828). He noted that the Halifax markets had an abundant supply of butcher's meat and other provisions, but fresh vegetables were available only in summer and autumn; root vegetables such as potatoes, cabbages, turnips and carrots were staples for winter. Fish was a far different story because, as McGregor noted, "The fish market is the best supplied of any in America: I have heard it said, of any in the world. Fishes of different kinds, and of excellent quality, are brought by the boats every morning from sea…."

It Was a Cabbage Farce!

Samuel Ball was conscripted by the Freemasons to Secure the Island until they were "Resting in Peace"!

 

[Honest Samuel]

The reason is that they are not good tasting.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Sauerkraut and kielbasa, cooked slow in a crockpot. Served over mashed potatoes and diced onions. Heaven.

Cabbage/sauerkraut was also one of the few sources of vitamin C available to most common folk in the winter.

And what is sauerkraut? Shredded cabbage mixed with salt and allowed to ferment/pickle. There is also your salt connection. ;-)

 

[ECS]

... I have been studying and reading for the past two weeks and I am going to keep on reading it over and over and watching his four each one hour documentaries and his three shows on youtube.
I simply love everything this man whom I will say is nothing less than "GENIUS" If you read and study his work instead of "Oh it can't be true" then you might find out how ignorant people have been for the past 400 years not to see it right in front of their eyes.
The Shakespeare experts and college professors should go to Petter and learn something about Shakespeare from someone that knows what he is talking about...

In two weeks you have come to the realization that Petter Amundsen knows more than the world of academic Shakespeare experts, college professors, and those scholars who have devoted a lifetime to the study of the Bard's works in the past 400 years-
to quote THE YARDBIRDS - "Well mister you're a better man than I"

 

[Dave Rishar]

People planting small finds as a hoax of sorts to encourage investment is one thing, but a massive conspiracy to fabricate reports and evidence (huge quantities of fibre etc.) is much harder to swallow.

How many samples of fibers have been recovered and tested to date? How much is left?

I find it difficult to believe that any irrefutable evidence could be produced to prove that the engineering work at Smith’s Cove was all a hoax. When was the hoax perpetrated, and by whom? Facts, please, not theories.

By multiple people, at multiple times...basically, every major treasure recovery operation was guilty of it to some degree. I don't necessarily think that there was a deliberate attempt to scam people, either. Think about it like this: if you're digging a hole to get a treasure that you know is there - you're absolutely sure it's there - and you run out of money ten feet short of where you're certain it is, how much of a crime is it for you to "find" a coin or a button or something to drum up another investor? You're not screwing anyone. The treasure is right there, and when you get that extra money and dig it up, the investor that you tricked will get the gains on their investment and everyone will go home happy. Is this a bad thing?

Even well-meaning people will deceive other people, if they believe that the circumstances justify it.

As there are things unexplained here we appear to be presented with a mystery. When faced with a mystery one either chooses to ignore it or attempts to make inroads into it. So, by all means ignore it, but why demand that others acknowledge it all as a hoax, as if this be a demonstrable fact?

Because when you dig into the legend, much of it falls apart. The majority of the "facts" that we all know are associated with the legend are not indeed facts. Some of them have been proven not to have even happened, and others are unlikely. Very little of it is at all logical.

Also, those of us that say that nothing is there are not under any obligation to prove that. Proving a negative is often impossible. The person that claimed that a treasure is there is obligated to prove their statement. People have been attempting (unsuccessfully) to prove that statement for over two centuries now. Actually digging up a treasure would constitute excellent proof, but no one has been able to do that yet, and unfortunately this is another problem for the treasure theory - two centuries of digging holes and turning dirt and we're no closer now than we were at the beginning.

People hammer Petter Amundsen’s efforts, but at least he was trying to achieve something, and actually made a number of discoveries as a result of testing his hypothesis. His reasoning may have been suspect - so come up with the right one, one that can be tested!

What discoveries are those?

I have a hypothesis - there is no treasure on Oak Island. I have not personally tested it, but many other people already have. Unfortunately there is no way to prove this negative, so I'll simply let history serve as an example for what future seekers might reasonably expect.

Keep in mind there are the families that claim the treasure has already been found..

There are people claiming all sorts of crazy horse apples regarding this legend, and some of it is on this very forum. That doesn't necessarily make any of it factual.

One fact remains the shaft was there and constructed by the best of engineers of their time.

Which shaft? One of the modern ones, or the original one that nobody can locate?

 

[Dave Rishar]

My word, this forum has become prolific as of late. I take a day off to walk a lava tube and I come back and am completely overwhelmed. This forum was pretty quiet for a long time, and now I can't even keep up. This is good!

I agree with Petter Amundsen no matter what you say or do. His research is passed on everything that encrypted messages that were written by scholars in the early 17 century. I have never seen any facts you have posted on anything. I do not believe you can agree with anyone. So we will agree to disagree and leave it at that.

You have just essentially stated that you are unreasonable. That's not meant as an insult, although if someone were to say it to me I would initially be insulted. Then I would go back and read what I'd typed, and think carefully on what it implied. Go back and read what you typed, and think carefully on what it implies.

I'll bet you did not know that Fred Nolan found gold coins under one of those stones. He did not know about the alignment of the stones other than they had formed a "cross" Petter worked out the measurements and found two of the other five stones, exactly on the spot where he had calculated them to be.

Let's see them then, with Fred. He must have taken a picture of that. I certainly would have. I'm not even going to go into why someone would bury gold coins under a marker stone that, along with other marker stones, would indicate where a treasure was located. I would think that the stone would be enough.

He did find and record, along with other items...Parts making up a Wrought Iron Stove buried underneath one of these massive boulders!

For readers that have only stumbled onto this thread in the last few years, I'll give you a link to the last time that we discussed the stove. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/o...i-series-january-5-2014-a-43.html#post4019496

The discussion starts at post #640. I bowed out at #676. I had thought that the issue had basically been addressed, but here it is again, so there we are. You'll likely find one of two things:

1. You think that this is all horse apples, and the stove issue has been put to bed.
2. You think that there is a treasure buried there, and the stove is a clue.

Cognitive bias will play a role. Read, and think, carefully. And if I'm wrong, do tell me why and how I'm wrong. I'm a human being and I experience cognitive bias, even though I know what it is, understand what it is, and attempt to identify it before it becomes a problem for me. Because I'm a human being, I can never be entirely successful in this. I rely on others to assist me. They also experience cognitive bias, but they view the world differently than I do and can point out the times when my perception of reality is not jiving with theirs, and then I know where to focus my attention.

I'm not sure why someone would bury a stove of any sort under a marker stone for a treasure, but I'm not sure why they'd bury gold coins under one either. The stone is a marker, or else it is not; what's under it would only be a clue for someone that didn't understand the significance of the marker but had for some reason decided to remove it and dig under it, which is exactly the sort of person that you don't want to give clues to when you're hiding a treasure from them. There are a lot of "facts" associated with the Oak Island treasure legend that don't make any sort of sense to me. I can't explain them, but I'll certainly comment on why they're illogical. Then I'll mention cognitive bias again, and some people will become angry with me without understanding why they've become angry with me.

If you are reading this and you have become angry with me, why are you angry? Read, and think, carefully. Pay particular attention to cognitive dissonance (not the same as cognitive bias, but it is a form of cognitive bias) and try to objectively evaluate what you're experiencing.

 

[Robot]

Oh Please...Do Not Open Up...That Pot Bellied Stove!

For readers that have only stumbled onto this thread in the last few years, I'll give you a link to the last time that we discussed the stove. History Channel - Oak Island mini series January 5, 2014

The discussion starts at post #640. I bowed out at #676. I had thought that the issue had basically been addressed, but here it is again, so there we are. You'll likely find one of two things:

1. You think that this is all horse apples, and the stove issue has been put to bed.
2. You think that there is a treasure buried there, and the stove is a clue.

Cognitive bias will play a role. Read, and think, carefully. And if I'm wrong, do tell me why and how I'm wrong. I'm a human being and I experience cognitive bias, even though I know what it is, understand what it is, and attempt to identify it before it becomes a problem for me. Because I'm a human being, I can never be entirely successful in this. I rely on others to assist me. They also experience cognitive bias, but they view the world differently than I do and can point out the times when my perception of reality is not jiving with theirs, and then I know where to focus my attention.

I'm not sure why someone would bury a stove of any sort under a marker stone for a treasure, but I'm not sure why they'd bury gold coins under one either. The stone is a marker, or else it is not; what's under it would only be a clue for someone that didn't understand the significance of the marker but had for some reason decided to remove it and dig under it, which is exactly the sort of person that you don't want to give clues to when you're hiding a treasure from them. There are a lot of "facts" associated with the Oak Island treasure legend that don't make any sort of sense to me. I can't explain them, but I'll certainly comment on why they're illogical. Then I'll mention cognitive bias again, and some people will become angry with me without understanding why they've become angry with me.

If you are reading this and you have become angry with me, why are you angry? Read, and think, carefully. Pay particular attention to cognitive dissonance (not the same as cognitive bias, but it is a form of cognitive bias) and try to objectively evaluate what you're experiencing.

I Do Not Believe...The Moderator...Will Let Me Whip Your Butt...Again!

 

[Dave Rishar]

For readers that have only stumbled onto this thread in the last few years, I'll give you a link to the last time that we discussed the stove. History Channel - Oak Island mini series January 5, 2014

The discussion starts at post #640. I bowed out at #676. I had thought that the issue had basically been addressed, but here it is again, so there we are. You'll likely find one of two things:

1. You think that this is all horse apples, and the stove issue has been put to bed.
2. You think that there is a treasure buried there, and the stove is a clue.

Cognitive bias will play a role. Read, and think, carefully. And if I'm wrong, do tell me why and how I'm wrong. I'm a human being and I experience cognitive bias, even though I know what it is, understand what it is, and attempt to identify it before it becomes a problem for me. Because I'm a human being, I can never be entirely successful in this. I rely on others to assist me. They also experience cognitive bias, but they view the world differently than I do and can point out the times when my perception of reality is not jiving with theirs, and then I know where to focus my attention.

I'm not sure why someone would bury a stove of any sort under a marker stone for a treasure, but I'm not sure why they'd bury gold coins under one either. The stone is a marker, or else it is not; what's under it would only be a clue for someone that didn't understand the significance of the marker but had for some reason decided to remove it and dig under it, which is exactly the sort of person that you don't want to give clues to when you're hiding a treasure from them. There are a lot of "facts" associated with the Oak Island treasure legend that don't make any sort of sense to me. I can't explain them, but I'll certainly comment on why they're illogical. Then I'll mention cognitive bias again, and some people will become angry with me without understanding why they've become angry with me.

If you are reading this and you have become angry with me, why are you angry? Read, and think, carefully. Pay particular attention to cognitive dissonance (not the same as cognitive bias, but it is a form of cognitive bias) and try to objectively evaluate what you're experiencing.

I Do Not Believe...The Moderator...Will Let Me Whip Your Butt...Again!

You and I are watching the same movie, but we're both seeing different things. Due to the nature of cognitive bias, neither of us can know for sure who is right. We both need outside assistance for that. However, as a reminder, if you are reading this and you have become angry with me, why are you angry? Read, and think, carefully. Pay particular attention to cognitive dissonance (not the same as cognitive bias, but it is a form of cognitive bias) and try to objectively evaluate what you're experiencing. And while we're on the subject of cognitive bias and its effects on the human mind, consider going back and editing the quotations in that post, as it appears that you've said what I actually said.

I don't speak for the moderators, but I suspect that they will stand back and let you whip any butt that you'd like to whip, as long as it complies with the Tnet ToS and only consenting adults are involved, just as such things should be. But if I believed that I'd been "whipped," why would I ever link back to the scene of the crime? It would have to be because I don't believe that I'd been whipped. But you believe that I was whipped, and neither of us can truly be sure of what we remember, and here we go back to cognitive bias again - we're watching the same movie, but we're seeing two different things.

I'm genuinely interested in a review of that discussion, BTW...no joke. I just reread it and came away thinking that you had to be shown the difference between a Franklin stove and a potbelly stove, and that you couldn't answer my questions about the provenance of the item. You came away thinking that you'd whipped my butt. I'm curious as to what people without our particular biases will think. But I already have an idea of what they will think - the people believing that there is a treasure there will side with you, and the people not believing that there is a treasure there will side with me. This particular form of cognitive bias is known as bias confirmation and, again, we're all subject to it, even when we know about it.

This conversation just became very interesting.

 

[gazzahk]

Th. Fred Nolan claims he found 3 chests in the swamp....

So being doing some research and it appears this claim of three chests found in the swamp can be attributed to this original source



Source: https://www.oakislandcompendium.ca/...s-the-story-of-an-oak-island-familys-treasure

Does make one wonder why the Laginas have never mentioned this reported find.

 

[gazzahk]

In terms of looking at the stars to find images/clues/truths of OI I think I have a new theory.

If you look closely at the Single greatest painting of a night sky ever



You can CLEARLY see the Money Pit (It is the BIG white circle). If you visit this link and follow the instructions https://imgur.com/gallery/VIeMk You can see the picture come to life.

If you know the correct code the movements will give the exact location of where they buried the treasure...

Therefore all that is left is someone to crack the code and I have solved the location of the treasure... Maybe Van Gogh was a Templar...

....

I should ring Marty straight away before someone else steals my map.....

 

[franklin]

In two weeks you have come to the realization that Petter Amundsen knows more than the world of academic Shakespeare experts, college professors, and those scholars who have devoted a lifetime to the study of the Bard's works in the past 400 years-
to quote THE YARDBIRDS - "Well mister you're a better man than I"

You finally got something I can agree with.

 

[Raparee]

Sauerkraut and kielbasa, cooked slow in a crockpot. Served over mashed potatoes and diced onions. Heaven.

Cabbage/sauerkraut was also one of the few sources of vitamin C available to most common folk in the winter.

And what is sauerkraut? Shredded cabbage mixed with salt and allowed to ferment/pickle. There is also your salt connection. ;-)

There are sauerkraut manufacturers in Lunenburg County today, not all that far from Oak Island.

 

[ECS]

You finally got something I can agree with.

The rhetorical irony of the song's lyrics in relation to your statements concerning Petter Amundsen?

 

[Au_Dreamers]

It's all Schrödinger's cat

 

[Backwoodsbob]

The stones are from the Jesuit. If not,they used the same symbolism. If there are tunnel on the island why can't they be found with gpr? I watch the show to see what direction they will go in. The swamp would be my first place to look. Drain it . The Jesuits liked using water to keep you out of their stashes. The code has been broken. They just don't let everyone in on it. Oak island is to public. There are many treasure sites around the world.