Phantom signals

[Matthews940]

I've got a Gold Monster 1000 that I'm still getting used to. I've become more comfortable with sensitivity settings based on the ground I'm sweeping. I don't have any problem identifying hot rocks now. They suck. But here is what I can't figure out. I will sometimes get a very strong signal from a target. Sometimes as if it's barely below the surface. So I dig it up and re-check for a signal and it's not there anymore. I sweep every bit of material that I've moved or disturbed and I still don't have that strong signal. I check for hot rocks. I keep moving the dirt around to see if the angle of the target is not in my favor. Nothing. As if nothing was there to begin with. Is there something that I'm missing? I'm making the effort to dig up all the targets that I get. They are naturally mostly square nails. I'm becoming discouraged with this phantom signal. Which in turn leads me to only dig up non-ferrous targets. Which I don't always want to do. Any advice on this?

 

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[cpomike13]

Dig every target, it take a lil longer to ground balance this pup than most detectors, so when it gets quiet, then you can sweep. If you watch Bill Southern (nuggettshooter.com) watch his older videos on YouTube. He show his hunts, whether or not, he finds gold.

 

[AllenJ]

Phantom signals suck, when I first started metal detecting I got them all the time and they were terrible. All that digging and nothing to show for, it is very discouraging. I discovered the issue was I was running the detector to hot and I was not taking the time to really investigate the signal before digging. I've been using the GM1000 for a few years and I don't know how you are running yours but I run mine on the first Auto setting almost exclusively. In my humble opinion it is the best choice since it automatically adjusts to the ground conditions without the user having to adjust and re-ground balance every time the ground changes, and in Northern CA the ground changes a lot lol. When you do get a signal use your shoe to clear the area above it and then recheck with the detector, the signal should be louder since you can have your coil on the dirt as you go over the target. If the signal is not louder ground balance on it and see if the detector is able to adjust to it. If it does, it's most likely mineralization. I have yet to be able to ground balance out a flake of gold but I have a lot of hot rocks and hot ground.

Good luck and don't get discouraged, be out there to enjoy the outdoors and have fun. When you do find a piece of gold it'll just be icing on the cake!

 

[Matthews940]

I mostly use the first auto setting as well. I guess that leads me to another question. Maybe a stupid one. I notice when in the auto mode when it does ground balance out a signal. Sweeping over mineralization and the signal fades away. But can this happen with an actual target? I want to trust the machine as much as possible. Maybe I just need to understand what it’s doing and how it works more. User error on my part.

Thanks for the advice guys. I’m not too discouraged. I won’t give up. I’m hooked!

 

[cpomike13]

Answer that question, by taking a small nugget and try to balance it out. It won't work .

 

[Lanny in AB]

I remember when I first started chasing nuggets with a metal detector, I'd get the same type of signal you're talking about, ones that would disappear when the dirt was disturbed. As discussed by AlanJ, mineralization in the soil. It can be caused by hot minerals, forest fire burn, etc. If the signal disappears, your detector is doing its job, and as Cpomike13 as suggested, use a small nugget to see if you can ground balance it out.

All the best, and keep swinging that coil, there's still lots of orphan nuggets out there to be adopted,

Lanny

 

[oneguy]

When you're in either Auto 1 or auto 2 you're smaller targets will start to ground balance out the more you swing over it. This may be why your target disappears? I only hunt in manual 10 and auto 2 for a break when the hot rocks drive me nuts after awhile. But that's just me and the way I hunt with the Monster. What I do on EVERY target I stumble onto while using auto 2 is check it with manual 10. IMO...manual 10 gives a better meter reading/sound over a target and it also takes much longer for that signal to balance out while in manual 10.... I never use auto 1....just not sensitive enough for the tinys I deal with and you'll miss the tiniest ones the Monster shines at getting. Use either manual 10 or auto 2 and always check target in manual 10. The 5" coil is also the tiny bit killer. Try it for awhile and see if that works for you? Just the way I do it and my opinion only.....good luck!
Keep us posted?

 

[Matthews940]

I was switching from Auto to 10 on those phantom signals also. Of course the signal would come back strong on 10, but I kept assuming it was mineralized soil, so I would just go back to Auto. I haven't been swinging in Auto+ at all. I didn't read the description well enough at first to understand that it actually brings back about 10% of noise, maybe just for that reason. I tried to run it in manual as much as I could on my last outing, but I had to keep it around 5 to reduce the noise. I didn't like that because of the tall grass hindering the coil from reaching the ground. Boy do I wish there was more virgin bedrock nearby. It's so much easier!

 

[oneguy]

Being you're new to the Monster it may take awhile and a few nuggies under your belt to get used to all the chatter when running the higher sensitivity settings. Ease into it and it'll come in time. Another thing that might possibly be your phantom target(s) is either "bump falsing" (when coil hits about anything, rock, stick, etc.). Many have this "problem", including me, and many claim they don't have the problem? I'm used to it after many hrs and it doesn't bother me. One other thing is the coil wire needs to be taped down as it will also sound off when it hits something (tall grass) or moves around....this is all part of the Monster being soooo sensitive and why it's killer on the tiny stuff which most of us have to deal with. Tape your coil wire to the shaft leaving enough play near coil so you can flatten coil on ground when you run your scoop over coil during recovery. Something to think about and maybe it'll help you.... That Monster is a good machine once you get to know it.....

PS...if you're hunting in tall grass then there's also top soil to detect through....you're adding inches and you'll probably miss any of the tiny stuff, coil needs to be right on top the tiny stuff. you'll get any bigger ones, if there are any....lol

 

[cactusman]

Those phantom signals are most likely pockets of mineralized soil, such as a decent amount of magnetite, and once you disturb it by digging you disperse it more, and the detector no longer "sees" it, as it's no longer quite as concentrated.

 

[beekbuster]

Those signals tell you youre on the right ground, they are usually a wider target response than a true target, but the safe bet is to dig them all, I have recovered some of my best gold from inspecting hot spots.

 

[Matthews940]

Thanks for all the great info and encouragement fellas. I can see why people get metal detectors and quickly get rid of them after becoming so frustrated by all these small but important details that can make all the difference. Learning all of this only makes me want to get out there that much more.
Just like AllenJ said.
"Good luck and don't get discouraged, be out there to enjoy the outdoors and have fun. When you do find a piece of gold it'll just be icing on the cake!said."

I'm learning that this is what it's all about.

 

[beekbuster]

Its one of those things, If I knew then what I know now, I could find gold with any detector. My main issue was not digging every target. I relied on the discrimination. And even then after 50 or so 22 bullets Id start passing on good loud targets, only to dig them years later and behold, a fine nugget. Best thing you can do is put a bag over your screen and find some bedrock. Dig every target. If you pass on one its time to go home. do that for 5 trips and if youre not finding gold youre not in the right spot.

 

[oneguy]

Best thing you can do is put a bag over your screen and find some bedrock. Dig every target.

Not trying to start a pissin match or have Beekbuster bust my beek but that screen/meter is on that machine for a good reason, learn to use it and your ears. Digging every target is what you should do with a PI machine. Digging every target takes away very valuable time if you have decent discrimination capabilities, use them. Disc of course isn't 100% accurate but OVER TIME with experience you'll understand what the machine "thinks" it sees and with time you'll be able to make a pretty good call as to whether to dig or not. Sure you'll miss a few iffies or maybe's but in the long haul you'll have saved valuable time by passing on probable junk and digging probable good targets. Your machine gives pretty good info, use it to your advantage, it takes time but over time you'll develop your skills (become one with the machine...lol) and your trash to treasure ratio will improve...just takes time. Managing your time efficiently is important. jmo

 

[Matthews940]

That meter is another enigma that I'd like to understand better. I can obviously see that when I get a stronger tone, the meter shows a larger reading. But what throws me off is that it bounces between ferrous and non ferrous, even when I'm over gold. It's only when it's an extremely strong signal over gold, that it favors non ferrous. Is this because mineralization is mixed in with the target? I've read that you can't base the target on the meter because of this. I guess one other thing that I haven't noticed, is if the meter reading on a target changes when you go through the Manual and Auto modes.

 

[AllenJ]

Matthews940 wrote:

Is this because mineralization is mixed in with the target?

I believe it is.

I've read that you can't base the target on the meter because of this.

I have dug a few tiny pieces that were incased in sediment that only read to the left on the meter but they would not ground balance out and most had gold in them.

 

[BC1969]

The technical term for what you are experiencing is called the halo effect.
When your detector picks up an iron target it can sound really fantastic, on analog and digital detectors.
Once you start to dig the target and disrupt the soil, you may find that your target has vanished.
What has happened is, the ferrous target has rusted and broken down into the surrounding soil.
A tiny nail head can leach out enough iron to sound silver dollar sized!
Your disruption of soil, disrupted the concentration of iron.. diluted it if you want and now you can't find it.
You CAN find it if you have an original Minelab Explorer.
Maybe even the Safari.
Or any Minelab..
Just be prepared for a strong lesson in futility!

I struggled with the halo effect in my early days of swinging a coil.
That was four decades ago.

Keep practicing and don't get discouraged!
Dig everything!
Dig everything!
DIG EVERYTHING!

That small rusting away nail, can be creating a halo large enough to hide a silver quarter from your detector!
Dig it all and be rewarded accordingly!
Held true for me over the years.

Have a great day!
Ps..those older than me may call it the masking effect..same thing.

 

[leadnugget]

if you bust up a small bit of rust pocket, natural or not, mineralization, it can disappear. i have an area that has a sliver gray schist that has pyrite
cubes embedded that sound off nice. makes me a bit crazy. i have read the nor cal area is kind of hard to use the 1000 due to mineralization.
with the gm 1000 get a good geologist hammer, with a neodymium magnet on it. wack it good. don't spend to much time on it, move on, lot of targets out there.
i also don't trust the meter, i dig everything, unless im in a very junky area.

 

[BC1969]

if you bust up a small bit of rust pocket, natural or not, mineralization, it can disappear. i have an area that has a sliver gray schist that has pyrite
cubes embedded that sound off nice. makes me a bit crazy. i have read the nor cal area is kind of hard to use the 1000 due to mineralization.
with the gm 1000 get a good geologist hammer, with a neodymium magnet on it. wack it good. don't spend to much time on it, move on, lot of targets out there.
i also don't trust the meter, i dig everything, unless im in a very junky area.

Just an FYI that crystalline pyrite can bring some good $$!
Would you be so kind to take some pictures of that material.
Please.

 

[beekbuster]

Not trying to start a pissin match or have Beekbuster bust my beek but that screen/meter is on that machine for a good reason, learn to use it and your ears. Digging every target is what you should do with a PI machine. Digging every target takes away very valuable time if you have decent discrimination capabilities, use them. Disc of course isn't 100% accurate but OVER TIME with experience you'll understand what the machine "thinks" it sees and with time you'll be able to make a pretty good call as to whether to dig or not. Sure you'll miss a few iffies or maybe's but in the long haul you'll have saved valuable time by passing on probable junk and digging probable good targets. Your machine gives pretty good info, use it to your advantage, it takes time but over time you'll develop your skills (become one with the machine...lol) and your trash to treasure ratio will improve...just takes time. Managing your time efficiently is important. jmo

No doubt there is value in the electronic advantage a vlf brings to detecting. Im just saying as a person starting out, with very limited knowledge, It is best to dig everything. even if it is not gold, it still gives you clues. I think we could agree that the main goal is to be on gold bearing ground. And to do that reliably it takes knowledge and skill. I gained those by doing things the wrong way until I figured out how to do it the right way