Police send unpleasant email

[scrounger d detector collector]

my local pd at my previous locale sure had a funny quirk.

about twice a year they would have a recovered stolen property auction

the vast majority of this was bicycles. im not sure why. maybe big enuf to steal but hardly worth enuf to appear at pd tp claim.?

anyway,there were a few other items also plus THE MYSTERY BAG !

YEP, it was advertised as such. and u were supposed to bid on it without having any idea what was inside. they acted like it was a big joke.

i wasnt laughing.i made a fuss about it. showing the part of the form where

it said all items would be avail for inspection.

i was told id have to make a formal complaint.

i decided to bid just to see. it got up over 150 dollars. only one other man

was bidding against me. he had not been there before and suddenly shows up just in time to bid on this one item and then left again.

I AM CONVINCED TO THIS DAY THAT THE BAG CONTAINED JEWELRY AND OTHER VALUABLES.

prob by law they have to auction what is confiscated. U CAN BET THIS MAN KNEW WHAT WAS IN THE BAG.

U WILL NEVER CONVINCE ME THAT THE MAN IN CHARGE DIDNT PROFIT.

PROB SPLITSIES ALL AROUND

EVERYTHING THAT HAS VALUE HAS MYSTERIOUS WAYS OF CIRCULATING

 

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[RGINN]

They can't legally do a mystery bag thing. Y'all bitch about bad cops, but if you don't fight it, they will always be with us. If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything.

 

[scrounger d detector collector]

They can't legally do a mystery bag thing. Y'all bitch about bad cops, but if you don't fight it, they will always be with us. If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything.

well they were doing it there.

i had to give up because i was in business in that city and lived there. they can make it unpleasent for you.

 

[jb7487]

This is the part that I consider unpleasant:

it would alleviate any mis appropriation of found property situations

Isn't she threatening you saying that they could charge you with "misappropriation of found property"? That's the way it looks to me. I don't think she is trying to be threatening, just acquaint you with the law. But it is indeed a threat as far as I can see. She is basically telling you in a nice way that you are technically breaking the law by not turning it in. And that to me is the unpleasant part.

I also agree that there is nothing keeping a small town cop from taking whatever they want from the property room. I have several friends and past acquantences that are cops. Most of them are great guys that you could generally trust to do the right thing. A couple of them are not. Cops are human beings. And as such are fallable. Heck, even your local priest, rabbi, and minister can't be trusted to always do the right thing. If I found an expensive item I'd try to find the owner by myself first. If that failed I'd start weighing my options depending on how expensive the item was. There is actually a point where very expensive items become LESS likely to be taken by the cops. The big ticket items potentially attract more attention and therefore more accountability. For example, if I found a briefcase with $1M in it, a cop is going to be hard pressed to smuggle that out without leaving a trace. And anyone who comes to claim it is going to be tracked as well. But if I turn in someone's Nintendo DS game then it is more likely to just disappear without a trace. You just never know.

 

[lostcauses]

The more I read: the Md'er is there own worst enemy.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

jb7487, your post is what I was trying to get at. Thankyou

" Isn't she threatening you saying that they could charge you with "misappropriation of found property"? That's the way it looks to me. I don't think she is trying to be threatening, just acquaint you with the law. But it is indeed a threat as far as I can see. She is basically telling you in a nice way that you are technically breaking the law by not turning it in. And that to me is the unpleasant part. "

So yes, it is a nice, pleasant, and non-threatening email. But reading between the lines (as some here are doing) the ramifications can be alarming.

Yes cops are frail humans just like all of us. None of us can say we've never done things we're not proud of, or want all our actions paraded from billboards. And if you think of it, to a police working with small "found" items, an item turned in to them was simply a ... found item! No different than something picked up off the street, or whatever. So maybe in THEIR way of thinking, why should the person who turned it in to the police care one way or the other?? I mean, it's not the finder's property to begin with, so why should that person worry where it ends up? So if it disappeared forever (into the hands of their friend or kid brother), "who is harmed?". Of course that's not legally correct But from a psychological angle, you can see that it would be easy to justify in one's mind.

Also bear in mind that police dept's are large affairs (depending on city size). So it's not *just* the one person at the counter, or *just* the one clerk at some other desk who processes it, etc.. but there could be scores of personell who have knowledge (computer access, public records, etc...) of whatever passes by the front desk. ANYONE of them could pick up the phone and tell their uncle "come down and describe and such & such, that you lost at such & such place, and you'll have yourself a nice pair of Raybans, or a nice watch, etc..."

Yesterday I went to this small town police dept. to talk to the lady who sent me the email. I was going to offer my services, in response to her email, for cases, in the future, of persons reporting lost jewelry on the beach. Unfortunately she's out till next week.

When I speak to her next week, I will also ask, her, hypothetically, that if a person were to turn in a ring they found: 1) do they get it back at the end of the 90 days? 2) if it got claimed, do they get to know who claimed it? (or is that kept confidential?) 3) what type (or value, etc....) items would be covered under the "mis-appropriation" lost & found laws? I will keep this all hypothetical, and will report back with a new thread here.

 

[scrounger d detector collector]

cops are notorious for keeping property. when I was younger a police detective lived on my block. every July forth he set off a huge fireworks display. of course it was all fireworks that was confiscated by the police. my dad was a auxiliary police officer and I was around cops a lot. I've seen their true selves. I have seen with my own eyes felonies committed. personally I would not trust any law officer to return any thing of value to the legal owner nor to pass up an opportunity to accuse the finder of being a thief.

i have read a newspaper incident of police parties where everyone was drinking beers from DUI arrests. they were caught because of being too lazy to remove the yellow EVIDENCE tape.

 

[johnnyi]

"The more I read: the Md'er is there own worst enemy."

Agree completely lostcauses.

 

[Monty]

I played finders keepers when I was a kid. Mom said it wasn't nice then and I outgrew it since. If someone can prove I found thier lost property then I will return it. That's just the kind of guy I am. Nothing to debate. Monty

 

[scrubber]

If it's been lost for so long that it's buried in the ground and there are no identifying marks to facilitate a return to the probable owner, then finders keepers.

However if it is out in the open on public property and appears to be lost or abandoned and has any value at all, then I would turn it in.
Same thing I would want anyone else to do if I accidentally lost or forgot an item of value at the park or a public place. It's just the right thing to do even if there is no name on it.

What if it was your watch or your ring or camera or whatever, you get home realize you left it at the park go back and it's not there, next thing you do is see if anyone turned in your lost item, and hopefully a noble person did turn it in.

GG~

If I'm at the park, sunning on a blanket and spot a valuable item next to it, I'll pick it up and turn it in.
But, in my almost 3 years of MDing, I have logged over 1000 hours swingin' and diggin' in parks and beaches. I have two detectors I regularly use + a pinpointer + other tools + gas. With that investment, I feel whatever I find while actively detecting is rightfully mine.

As far as placing myself in the item loser's shoes, I feel that if I were careless enough to lose something valuable to me, I should just consider it gone and learn a lesson from it. In fact I have, and that's exactly the way I looked at it. If you carry around something that's so valuable you would hate to lose it, insure it, or better yet, leave it at home when you go to the beach.

I'm not putting the time and money into this hobby to become the local valuable-finder superhero.

scrubber

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

If found item isn't engraved, or have some kind of identifying marks they can describe with out seeing the item, then they can't prove it is theirs (99.999% of jewelry we find is mass produced).

If someone can't prove item I found is theirs by engraving or identifying marks (scratches where they say they are, or marks on inside) then it is mine if I find it. If someone can identify item by engraving or identifying marks I have no problem returning item to them and happy to do so. (Have done so in past)

I'm not going to just give item to someone who happen to lose one at a beach a couple weeks or months ago that looks like the one I found, there are hundreds or thousands of the same jewelry item sold nation wide.

No way of knowing one I found is the actual one they lost with out engraving or identifying marks on the item......

If a ring, watch, necklace or what ever is so special to someone, engrave it so they can positively identify it..........................

 

[jb7487]

If found item isn't engraved, or have some kind of identifying marks they can describe with out seeing the item, then they can't prove it is theirs

Well, I have to disagree with that. Let's assume that I find a pair of Ray-Ban sunglasses on a park bench next to the drinking fountain and turn them into the police as such. Someone coming in asking "did someone find a pair of Ray-Ban sunglasses sitting on the park bench next to the drinking fountain?" is going to be enough proof for just about anyone. An item doesn't necessarily have to be marked in some way to prove to me that I've found the rightful owner. Knowing details about where and when the item would have been found along with a specific interest in finding said item is also reasonable proof. But it's not a black and white issue.

But in general I agree to a certain extent. People need to be able to positively identify their items without resorting to fishing for information about the item in question. They should know basically what it looks like as well as where and when it was likely to have been found.

 

[jeff of pa]

in many cases the reason the item was lost
is They are wrong about where they left it.

I lost my debit card once.

I swore I lost it last place I was that day.
turned out to be first place I was.

so saying where they lost it dosn't mean
it's not theirs if they are wrong.

But I agree If somone can tell you the Name brand
& You didn't advertise the name brand It's theirs.

if the item has initials,
& They show me the Initials are theirs,
It's good enough for me.
I'f they lied, well, their one up on me

In my opinion a found Item is just that.
If it's gone the next day I'm not going to
loose sleep over it Unless it was a Suitcase full of Money
Or a Cache of gold or other precious Metal.

In which case it was mine in the first place & I just
retrieved it.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Unless it was a Suitcase full of Money
Or a Cache of gold or other precious Metal.
In which case it was mine in the first place & I just
retrieved it.

If I find a suitcase with a large sum of money or gold, I'm gone.......................... I hear Tahati is nice all year. long.

 

[hogge]

I think everyone is reading too much into this thing. The wording can yes, be interpreted several different ways. Do I think she meant the detectorist any kind of harm, or accusation? NO. This is EXACTLY what I was talking about with The "Revamped" Code of Ethics. 1 word, or phrase, can be interpreted, or "MIS"interpreted, to have a totally different meaning from which it was intended. AKA.......Taken out of context.

 

[Cappy Z.]

I think everyone is reading too much into this thing. The wording can yes, be interpreted several different ways. Do I think she meant the any kind of harm, or accusation? NO. This is EXACTLY what I was talking about with The "Revamped" Code of Ethics. 1 word, or phrase, can be interpreted, or "MIS"interpreted, to have a totally different meaning from which it was intended. AKA.......Taken out of context.

Who the heck is a small group of bureaucrats telling us what the heck we can keep? BALOGNA!!

I say finders keepers. IF you want to talk honesty about crooks..look how our officials have financially raped the country via malfeasance etc.

Enough govt interference.

 

[hogge]

I think everyone is reading too much into this thing. The wording can yes, be interpreted several different ways. Do I think she meant the any kind of harm, or accusation? NO. This is EXACTLY what I was talking about with The "Revamped" Code of Ethics. 1 word, or phrase, can be interpreted, or "MIS"interpreted, to have a totally different meaning from which it was intended. AKA.......Taken out of context.

I Agree Cappy. They are crooks and dishonest. This is why I would NEVER let anyone know where I've found stuff. Historical finds or not. This is why I will never GPS any sites I hunt. Information has a way of "LEAKING" out, no matter how safe it is claimed to be. If someone wants info bad enough, some how, some way, they can obtain it. Our own military has it's computers hacked into all the time.

Who the heck is a small group of bureaucrats telling us what the heck we can keep? BALOGNA!!

I say finders keepers. IF you want to talk honesty about crooks..look how our officials have financially raped the country via malfeasance etc.

Enough govt interference.

 

[Tnmountains]

If you can return an item to its owner its your moral duty to return it and hope for positive press. If its unreturnable keep it. Its part of the treasure hunt. Why does everyone want to make this hobby so dificult? Be a good ambasador dont dress like a bum with your high tech equiptment be professional and courteous.
Case in point:
I remember crawling along a stretch of river bank one day. I was near the discharges from an industrial company.(the area had civil war and ancient artifact potential) I had on rubber boots a decent pair of Dickies tucked into the boots and a button golf shirt and fannie pack. An employee saw me and the next thing I knew the whole office staff including vice president was down there thinking I was doing water samples from their discarges. They thought I was with the EPA. Needless to say they were very interested and curious to learn what I was actually doing. I became welcome at the end of introductions any time to the site and it did pay off in the long run.
Moral to the story :
Look like you know what you are doing, Be courteous and polite. Continue with your search and act serious when people are watching you. I never shy away and have often held up my hand when someone approached me and adjusted dials for a sec and pulled of my head phones smiled and held out my hand and introduced myself. Know what you are going to say.
I dont know how everyone else behaves but its up to us to do the right things and portray ourselves in a good light. I think we are a great group of hobbyist.
Sorry for the long post.
Respectfully,
TnMountains

 

[jeff of pa]

If you can return an item to its owner its your moral duty to return it and hope for positive press. If its unreturnable keep it. Its part of the treasure hunt. Why does everyone want to make this hobby so dificult? Be a good ambasador dont dress like a bum with your high tech equiptment be professional and courteous.
Case in point:
I remember crawling along a stretch of river bank one day. I was near the discharges from an industrial company.(the area had civil war and ancient artifact potential) I had on rubber boots a decent pair of Dickies tucked into the boots and a button golf shirt and fannie pack. An employee saw me and the next thing I knew the whole office staff including vice president was down there thinking I was doing water samples from their discarges. They thought I was with the EPA. Needless to say they were very interested and curious to learn what I was actually doing. I became welcome at the end of introductions any time to the site and it did pay off in the long run.
Moral to the story :
Look like you know what you are doing, Be courteous and polite. Continue with your search and act serious when people are watching you. I never shy away and have often held up my hand when someone approached me and adjusted dials for a sec and pulled of my head phones smiled and held out my hand and introduced myself. Know what you are going to say.
I dont know how everyone else behaves but its up to us to do the right things and portray ourselves in a good light. I think we are a great group of hobbyist.
Sorry for the long post.
Respectfully,
TnMountains

I never shy away and have often held up my hand when someone approached me

I can't stress this enough.

This is the Make or break point right here.
The way you act when somone approaches
or even within Eye shot or even jokeingly asks
"did you find any gold yet ? "
Show what type of person you are.
it is harder to Tell a friendly person to Get Lost
then somone ready for an argument.

 

[Dimeman]

I don't see anything unpleasant about the email to you from the officer.

Any tracable item we should at least, attempt to find the owner, as most here would agree to.
Any item not tracable and not particularly wanted to keep ( like extra sunglasses, or keys or watches) I think it would make a better impression on the local police department if they were turned in as found items.

I bet if you search any state or city law books, most will have a similar law stating most items found should be turned into the police department.

So who is going to be first, to dump all their corroded zinc pennies at their local police, lost and found department ??