Question...........

[Suckerpunched]

Okay,,,,,there are a number of old vacant homes near where I live in Ogden, Utah that are scheduled to be torn down. I think they are now owned by the city and are part of a program to clean up the area....(not the safest place to hunt) but my question is.....if it's not posted "No Trespassing" do you think it would be safe(legally) to hunt them or should I contact the city offices to see? or should I just go for it and plead ignorance if approached?

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

"if it's not posted "No Trespassing"......" What are you waiting for?

You can ask if you want, but you might get "no's" where no one really would've ever cared or noticed (till you ask).

 

[SHERMANVILLE ILLINOIS]

Suckerpunched,

"not posted"; .......................Go for it.

"not the safest place to hunt"..........Is it really worth
getting hurt or........


have a good un.....
SHERMANVILLE

 

[Montana Jim]

Do you have "no trespassing" signs in your yard?

Would you mind if anybody started digging there because there are no signs?

Get permission IMO... someone still owns it.

 

[Suckerpunched]

Ahhhhh.....point taken Montana Jim,,,,,I'll look in to it a bit more.....
Thanks all............

 

[Montana Jim]

Ahhhhh.....point taken Montana Jim,,,,,I'll look in to it a bit more.....
Thanks all............

You probably could though, if you wanted to play dumb

UTAH: Written permission is required from the owner or person in charge to enter upon private land that is either cultivated or properly posted and must include the signature of the owner or person in charge, the name of the person being given permission, the appropriate dates, and a general description of the property.

 

[DES OK]

Suckerpunched,

"not the safest place to hunt"..........Is it really worth
getting hurt or........

SHERMANVILLE

Exactly, lots of places I avoid around here...

 

[Lowbatts]

I'd onlty work it in the presence of city personnel who didn't mind my presence if it's an informal agreement you seek. That's worked for me very often in the past around here. Otherwise seek formal permission, get to know someone on your local city council.

Worried about hooligans? Can't help you there, my back's still sore so I can't fight 'em or outrun 'em.

 

[Urban Prospector]

Unsafe area? Ogden must have changed since I lived there. If they are abandoned go for it maybe take a Friend to look up while your looking down.

 

[relichunters]

If there is no trespassing signs you are free to be there, until someone complains. So go to it! if you ask city officials and they say no, they might put up signs or check the area often. If you do it on a sunday when city employees aren't working, there is a 1 in a 1,000,000 chance anybody will come by. But still it's legal.

 

[boogeyman]

Another way around it is to do a little research to find out who is gonna demo the property. See if the contractor will let you detect it after hours when they're demoing it. Offer to give them a signed release of liability & they might even allow you to search the parts they aren't working up until everything is gone. Can't shoot ya for asking!

 

[utah1066]

Okay,,,,,there are a number of old vacant homes near where I live in Ogden, Utah that are scheduled to be torn down. I think they are now owned by the city and are part of a program to clean up the area....(not the safest place to hunt) but my question is.....if it's not posted "No Trespassing" do you think it would be safe(legally) to hunt them or should I contact the city offices to see? or should I just go for it and plead ignorance if approached?

Ha if you need a back person let me know, have md will help live in Layton,

 

[Purrdee]

Okay,,,,,there are a number of old vacant homes near where I live in Ogden, Utah that are scheduled to be torn down. I think they are now owned by the city and are part of a program to clean up the area....(not the safest place to hunt) but my question is.....if it's not posted "No Trespassing" do you think it would be safe(legally) to hunt them or should I contact the city offices to see? or should I just go for it and plead ignorance if approached?

Ha if you need a back person let me know, have md will help live in Layton,

Me too, Have MD, will Travel (to Ogden) from Clinton....woohoo....let's go!

 

[deepskyal]

God bless those tiny, local community groups hoping for change for the better in places like this.

I went to a group last night and picked up a list of a dozen places they got money to tear down.....old houses, late 1800's, early 1900's.

The problem is the high grass at these abandonded properties. Around my house I have a lot right next door that a house was demo'd last year. A lot easier to detect without the house.
They filled in the basement and the back yard is pretty much untouched by the excavator. You can still see remnants of the yard. If anything, the tracks from the excavator churned the soil a bit, maybe pushing goodies closer...but then again...maybe deeper.

I cut the grass to it and the abandonded triplex on the other side of me. Found a couple wheats but nuthing notable....yet!!!

But...I'll tell you one thing about this community group.....they are keenly alert to any activity going on around them and are very protective of "Their" neighborhood. If they sense any illegal activity, they WILL call the cops.

We were discussing why the owners aren't responsible for it and apparently it's a legal nightmare on who owns the property once it becomes condemned and the property goes abandonded for a few years.
Even though the borough is paying for the demo and is being pushed by the local group that has a better idea on developing the abandonded properties, the original owners still technically own the property....but a technicality....

I've been told by the borough officials here that I am free to do what I please with the lot next door...even put up a fence and shed and seed it for a yard....
But unless I come up with the $5000.00 the owners want for the lot...it will never be mine. I hate absentee landowners. This is Pa. and they are in Cal. They havent a clue the property is worthless now.

And trust me...I'd never pay that much for a tiny lot that you can no longer build a house on because it's too small for current zoning laws. And it certainly won't raise my property value by as much as I'd pay for it.

But I liked the key words..."Free to do as I please"

If anything...check with the neighbors to see if they'd mind.

Around here, vacant lots become possesion of whomever next door takes an interest in it....squatters rights!

They'll never actually own it, but I wouldn't dare detect it without their permission if they are the ones cutting the grass and maintaining it.

Al

 

[Tom_in_CA]

boogeyman, I don't know where you're from, but where I'm at, that (asking the demo. contractor) is an exercise in futility. Mind you, they probably couldn't really care less. Ie.: The concept of old coins or whatever you might find (that would in all reality just be hauled off with the dirt in dump trucks, or be covered again forever) is not the issue. It's the fact that if they say "go ahead", they're legally now liable for anything you do, injuries, etc...

I've had a lot of demolition sites that after-hours workers/foreman will actually be on your side, and say like "what've you found today?" etc... But naturally, if you were to ask them "can I detect here?", they'd say "no". So sometimes it's like picking your nose. You just be discreet, and odds are, no one cares.

 

[Urban Prospector]

I"m with Tom in CA on this if they give permission they assume the liability for your safety while your on the property. Unnecessary risk that doesn't improve the bottom line isn't welcome in the business world especially when it has the potential to bring a big fat personal injury lawsuit with it. In California if I give permission to enter my commercial property for you to pursue a hobby the case can be made civilly and criminally that you are then an employee/contract labor. Yes we are FUBAR in this State.

 

[Ant]

In California we can hunt places like that. It depends on your State's Trespassing Law, and a little commonsense. In particular, places that a city has proclaimed a nascence, or taken over by imminent domain are fair game in our state.

If you hunt places in your Satae like we do in California, you might get shot. It’s best to know the local tendencie. Here in California most people could care less if you're digging in an old lot. Most of hunt sites like that in the early mooring hours, weekends, bad weather days, early nights, and off traffic hours. You'll attract less attention that way.

 

[DigginThePast]

I would first determine who owns the properties. If city owned I'd go for it but if privately held I would seek permission first. The law may be on your side if the property is not posted but consider that the owner may have posted the property recently and vandals tore the signs down. I mention this this because this is what happened on an out of state family property. We have had several problems with kids partying and a neighbor that wanted to buy our place. The first thing the police suggested was to post the property which we did. Well, we would post it and come back the next weekend and all the signs would be down as well as more partying and/or vandalism.

 

[boogeyman]

boogeyman, I don't know where you're from, but where I'm at, that (asking the demo. contractor) is an exercise in futility. Mind you, they probably couldn't really care less. Ie.: The concept of old coins or whatever you might find (that would in all reality just be hauled off with the dirt in dump trucks, or be covered again forever) is not the issue. It's the fact that if they say "go ahead", they're legally now liable for anything you do, injuries, etc...

I've had a lot of demolition sites that after-hours workers/foreman will actually be on your side, and say like "what've you found today?" etc... But naturally, if you were to ask them "can I detect here?", they'd say "no". So sometimes it's like picking your nose. You just be discreet, and odds are, no one cares.

Hi Tom, the whole point I was making is have a properly prepared release of liability for them. I have used this several times, including Orange County. I got access to an abandoned house on IRVINE COMPANY property. If you know the Irvine Company, you know how difficult they can be. Don't know where you're located, but we actually got permission to search where the original Irvine mansion was & a site where one of the ranch hands had a house. The only hassle was stopping and showing the Irvine security (sheep jeeps) & Orange County Sheriffs our written permission and release every couple hours. It's helped me get permission to search properties in Colorado and Arizona also.

The key is if you have a written release for them, you chances are a lot better than just walking up and saying "Can I?" I think people feel more apt to give permission if they have something they feel is taking the responsibility off them, not to mention making you appear more prefessional.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

boogey, yes, if there is no other way, and an insurance waiver, certificate, signed search and salvage agreement etc... is necessary, then yes, sometimes that is the only way.

I'm all too familair with this insurance stuff, because I have a construction related business (street sweeping). I have to carry $2 million umbrella policy, etc.... I've even used that before (like you alude to) to get on an urban demolition job site, where they would not let me enter. Waiting till after 5pm wouldn't have worked, because the dump trucks were hauling away the critical stratas RIGHT THEN.

But those are the exceptions. On most other occasions the mere act of starting to talk about insurance will raise automatic flags that "oh no, something must be wrong that this total stranger wants me to sign something and is talking about liability, etc...." I've had several instances where I get the song & dance "you can't be here d/t liability concerns". So I chime back "no problem, I'm covered and can have a certificate on your desk in 5 minutes". And their answer is still "no" (causing me to think that they really didn't care about liability, and just don't want to bother with you/me).