Rifle cartridge from possible gun blowup.

[silverswede]

Found this today at a campsite. The only remaining numbers on the head stamp are a 30 and a F S . the case is bent and wrinkled with a sort of a twist pattern and the head stamp is half gone. Could this have happened if the rifle barrel had got plugged with some thing and then fired? The site is in a popular deer/elk hunting area.

 

[goldguru]

.22 practice target.

 

[kuger]

A muzzle plug explosion is "absorbed", by the barrel......you get the umbrella effect.I would say the "shot at",theory is plausible

 

[Lucas]

If those creases happened in the chamber (ruptured case) the damage on the base is from trying to pry it out.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

check this out. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=395_1244455053&p=1%20(http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=395_1244455053&p=1)

possibly the result of a mud plug.

 

[kenley]

OK here is what happened: 1. Chamber of rifle was dirty.
2. Case was "fire formed" to the rough chamber walls by the heat and
pressure of the discharge.
3. When the bolt was rotated(anti-clockwise) , the stuck case was twisted.
4. The extractor pulled out a chunk of the rim.
Note: Many times the whole head will seperate from the body of the case.

 

[kuger]

check this out. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=395_1244455053&p=1%20(http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=395_1244455053&p=1)

possibly the result of a mud plug.

Yep,thats the "umbrella ",effect.I have had that happen twice (to clients)

 

[Lucas]

OK here is what happened: 1. Chamber of rifle was dirty.
2. Case was "fire formed" to the rough chamber walls by the heat and
pressure of the discharge.
3. When the bolt was rotated(anti-clockwise) , the stuck case was twisted.
4. The extractor pulled out a chunk of the rim.
Note: Many times the whole head will seperate from the body of the case.

Green check!

 

[TiredIron]

I've seen cartridges that were thrown in a campfire discharge.....lay in there...and come out looking like that.

Looks like a Winchester 30-30 rimmed cartridge. I doubt it was fired in a bolt action rifle as there aren't "too" many chambered for that round. They're mostly lever action and a few break action rifles.
The one picture shows it distorted and bowed as though it were heated to a high temperature and relaxed in that position. It is unlikely that bow would be achieved being fired in a chamber. You could do a hardness test on the brass to see if it shows embrittlement from exposure to high temps and then slow cooling. If only fired in a weapon once it would still be relative soft except for any normal work hardening.
I think it was in a fire.

 

[kuger]

Great points,I couldnt see how being in the chamber would allow the case to bend like that either?

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Case appears to be a 30-30 (aka: 30 WCF). Lever actions lack the strength to twist a case like that.

My guess would be someone was using a Lyman 310 reloading rig a dry or dirty case and collapsed the case, then tore the rim up trying to get it out of the resizing die.

 

[Monty]

Looks like burned in a campfire to me. If stuck in chamber it wouldn't have the bow in it I wouldn't think. Just first impression. Monty

 

[kenley]

the case has been twisted. Only a bolt action or semiauto twist the case to aid in extraction. A Schmit-Ruben pulls straight back, but the bolt turns..think of pulling the operating lever back on a Garand, M1 carbine, Mini 14 etc.
Lever actions pull straight back,
There are bolt action 30-30's

 

[TiredIron]

a. "If' the resulting distortion "was" caused from a twisting action....it was a clockwise rotation. All
bolt action rifles (Including straight pull) extract with a counter clockwise rotation. The exception
would be a custom "Left Hand" rifle which would have clockwise rotation extraction.
b. An extractor would not have the rotational force to twist a cartridge.(Even rifles with dual
extractors.)
c. A cartridge fired in the chamber and then extracted even if partialy stuck wouldn't bow or
create the resulting buldges as we see in this example.

But never say never..... I am the ever patient student and would welcome being shown
the physics and dynamics of how this could be reproduced in the manner you believe.
Repeatability is the only true science.

 

[silverswede]

Really great logic applied here fellers. Might as well throw in a couple of extra situations.
It kinda looks like the bend to the side if straightned out would remove the twist wrinkle too.

I dont have a 30.30 cartridge handy but this looks a bit smaller that a 30.30 maybe from that little carbine .30 M1 was it? WW2. it measures length about 5.5 metric or 2 1/16 inches all approx. cause of the bend ruler measured.
Was found in a timbered area several hundred yards from any campsite or parking area in National Forest.
You guys are good!

 

[TiredIron]

Swede,
A brand new shiny Winchester 30-30 cartridge is 2.032 inches long.
A red hair less than 2-1/16th. When fired, the casing would probably grow
enough to make up the difference.
If this warranted further discussion I would toss a handful of empties
into an open fire myself..... and probably come pretty close to producing a
replica of your find.

HH my friend.
And although it is true that you can purchase a bolt
action rifle chambered in Winchester 30-30....I almost can not think of
a "less" produce bolt action rifle....in that particular chambering.
Again.... I agree to "never say never".......

 

[diggerfororo]

Case appears to be a 30-30 (aka: 30 WCF). Lever actions lack the strength to twist a case like that.

My guess would be someone was using a Lyman 310 reloading rig a dry or dirty case and collapsed the case, then tore the rim up trying to get it out of the resizing die.

This is the most logical explination. If you notice, there is no primer in the primer pocket. if it was fired, there would be remnants of the primer. If it exploded in a fire, there would be a bulge below where the bullet was seated and the primer caseing would be evident, with the center blown out. Just my opinion but I think Charlie has it right.

Les

 

[Bum Luck]

Yeah, I agree, but could be a lawnmower hit too.

Hard to track stupidity, though, in all its manifest forms.

 

[NHBandit]

Having done a fair bit of reloading in my time I have to agree with the theory that it was deformed in a reloading press. Someone forced it into the resizing die (they do have a bit of leverage) and when it deformed and got stuck they ripped the rim in the process of prying it out. Have had it happen myself several times but usually with US Military surplus brass that was fired through full autos & then sold as scrap. Worn out chambers on the military MGs tend to cause the cases to expand quite a bit and then if you don't lube them up really good when resizing they deform and get stuck. Of course this can happen just as easily with grandpas old Winchester 30/30. I don't see the "twist" from being turned some of you are talking about. Just a typical wrinkle from being crushed as I've seen many many times while reloading. I could show you several cases that look very similar if I hadn't cashed in my scrap brass awhile back. Just a heads up also to guys who collect shell casings for the scrap value. Alot of the imported modern military stuff (Russian, etc.) is brass plated steel. Check it with a magnet. If it was found at a hunting camp I suppose it's very possible one of the hunters was passing the time while not hunting by doing a bit of reloading. There's also a company (Lee) that makes a handloader that dosn't use a press and can be carried in your pocket but I doubt one of those could be used with enough force to do that to a brass case. Was it a camp with a cabin that was used year after year or more of a temporary tent site type of place ?

 

[kenley]

Wow..I guess I am loosing it. I "air u-loaded" that damn rifle in my lap a dozen times and still got it assbackwards. Like looking at the drain plug under the car. I have to turn it over in my mind. I am leaning toward the "live fire" target practice due to the gouge flowing toward the neck of the case and the missing(blown out) primer. I can't explain the twist, unles it was done in a stuck re-loading die and the sacrificed later when it wouldn't chamber. Anyway, it's a lively discussion.