Rocks, Artifacts, and Frustration

[Charl]

I hope the moderators don't delete this thread. I am going to try and be helpful and point out some of the things I see happen that cause problems on artifact forums in general, and not simply TNet.

Here are 2 ways in which frustration complicates threads. A person, often with little to no experience, post an ordinary rock to a forum. Happens on every forum I know. There will be many experienced eyes belonging to long term forum members. It is perfectly understandable if the reaction among some of those experienced members is, to themselves, "oh no, not another rock. Sigh...". Thus, weary and feeling no need to go into detail, especially since it is near impossible to describe why a rock is just a rock in this format, rather then in person and handing the rock back and forth to explain, the experienced member may just say "It's a rock".
Now a new poster may interpret that as a bit curt. "That's all you're going to tell me?" And, it may happen, the experienced member may have answered even more curtly, due to the aforementioned frustration. "it's a rock, a waste of our time". Ouch! Bad reply! Does no good at all, gets original poster quite upset. Nothing wrong with a short and sweet answer, but it can be delivered thus: "Thanks for the post and welcome. Unfortunately your find is just an ordinary rock".

another frequent cause of frustration derives directly from the poster asking the question. They are told it is a rock, in so many ways, by so many experienced eyes. But, they become frustrated and they become upset because they are quite disappointed to have the truth tossed their way. They respond along the lines "you people are clueless", "A scientist told me it was, what do you know?, " What makes you people experts?" This is where an eventual outcome of banning may result. If the attacks continue unabated, and especially if PM's are sent to members insulting members, the site is called a joke, etc. then banning may become the only option. On another site on which I'm active, this is how we handle it. We don't ban simply because a rock or geofact is posted. The poster has to get completely out of hand with insults before we ban. That said, I've shown frustration, both here, and elsewhere in the artifact forum universe, it is a continuing problem and a direct result of the difficulties conveying not just meaning, but our attitudes, in a venue that is as far less ideal then face to face as any venue could possibly be. Every time I've let my frustration show where misleading information posted to forums is concerned, I've always regretted it. It never, ever helps.

The best results to such threads are realized when the original poster replies along the lines: "Thank you everyone for the helpful information. I've learned something and hope to find some real artifacts as a result".

Lest I be misunderstood in any way, some of the nicest artifact collectors I have ever met frequent and grace this forum with their knowledge, their generosity, and their great personalities.

 

[Charl]

Tom has posted useful information on how to recognize when a rock has been worked by man. One of the problems experienced eyes have is actually explaining why an ordinary rock is just an ordinary rock. For most experienced collectors, the recognition long ago became second nature knowledge. In other words, you see a clearly ordinary rock, and you do not find yourself listing the "10" things you see that make it a rock and not an artifact. Your mind does not have to go through a drawn out reasoning process. Rather, you simply know it is a rock. Experience has rendered the recognition as second nature. Once it is second nature, it becomes very difficult to explain why it's a rock to someone new to the hobby of hunting artifacts, for whom such easy second nature recognition simply does not exist. As Tom said earlier, there is nothing wrong, in and of itself, in simply saying "it's just a rock". For most of us, that is all our second nature knowledge will allow us to say. I know one guy, not a member of this forum, who would think nothing of writing several pages telling the newbie why it's a rock, but that's a rare ability and rare patience as well. Not to mention a lot of work when you're not face to face to examine the rock together but have to get your point across in a forum.

If a person fights the truth and questions the answers received in a way that suggests they simply do not respect the people providing answers, that's when things can get a bit out of hand. On both sides. Often, members will say "if you already were sure of the answer, why are you stopping by here to ask us for an answer"? I like something along these lines: "What is more likely to be the case, that you, as an inexperienced individual are correct in your opinion or that the collective knowledge of collectors with decades of experience have given you the answer to your question?"

i brought the subject up because of the recent "bad adze" thread where just these problems arose. As they do on every forum. There is certainly no getting around the fact that some posters will fight for their delusions to the bitter end. There is really nothing we can do about that except point out they are acting irrational. If they still don't get it, they are free to subscribe to their delusions, but not free to act like a troll from that point forward.

It'e inevitable that newcomers will arrive with non-artifacts, hoping they found something exciting. So we will probably always face situations like that. I just wanted to point out how frustration, and even anger, develops both with experienced members and newbie, so perhaps we can better handle such threads if we recognize what is happening due to this difficulty in communicating cordially. I don't mind, as Tom pointed out, if someone packs up their toys in a huff and leaves. And takes their rocks with them. Unfortunately, they often don't do that before threads devolve into flame wars.

 

[Charl]

I want to add, that from personal experience, I know there are collectors who simply cannot distinguish between rock and artifact. Long after we graduated, I bumped into a high school mate, only to learn he was an artifact hunter. He had 2 beautiful blades. Better then any I had ever found. Everything else he had were rocks. "Axes" that were rocks, "dishes" that were rocks, etc. My wife and I helped him learn to recognize our local/ regional lithics and he is a decent surface hunter. But he still brings home rocks, and I've come to accept the fact that he always will. He will call and say, "think I got something, might be an axe", and I'll tell him to bring it by. He just laughs when he learns it is a rock. At first, I used to hedge, "well, yeah, maybe...", but I'm not dishonest easily and he was a friend, so I had to just tell him the truth. My point is he taught me that there are indeed collectors who cannot distinguish rock from artifact. I don't understand why, but when my own recognition has become second nature, it's just really hard to understand why.

 

[rock]

I still have some geofacts from when I first started hunting in a frame. I enjoy looking at them and say to myself every time.....what did I see in those? It really helps by finding your own and making mistakes along the way only to know later they were natural.

 

[hbrown22]

I've already gave some of my pieces the boot and they are resting nicely around the pool. I still have some in the house that are in my "cool" jar. I think if your gonna do this seriously, you need to be educated. Since I've joined I've spent hours upon hours researching online, trying to learn more about the history of my area. I've gone through this forum reading, viewing pix, and asking questions. This weekend we are going to an artifact show so we can get hands on and learn about local artifacts. It's all about learning and you can learn something from everyone if you keep an open mind. Guess I learned this with all my years of training horses. Talk about an opinionated group of people and know it alls, lol!

 

[River Rat]

 

[River Rat]

 

[tomclark]

 

[Tnmountains]

I want to add, that from personal experience, I know there are collectors who simply cannot distinguish between rock and artifact. Long after we graduated, I bumped into a high school mate, only to learn he was an artifact hunter. He had 2 beautiful blades. Better then any I had ever found. Everything else he had were rocks. "Axes" that were rocks, "dishes" that were rocks, etc. My wife and I helped him learn to recognize our local/ regional lithics and he is a decent surface hunter. But he still brings home rocks, and I've come to accept the fact that he always will. He will call and say, "think I got something, might be an axe", and I'll tell him to bring it by. He just laughs when he learns it is a rock. At first, I used to hedge, "well, yeah, maybe...", but I'm not dishonest easily and he was a friend, so I had to just tell him the truth. My point is he taught me that there are indeed collectors who cannot distinguish rock from artifact. I don't understand why, but when my own recognition has become second nature, it's just really hard to understand why.

I think you are referring to a hobbyist which is understandable.He collects but does not really grasp what he is collecting. Finding is only the beginning of the journey. A hunter/ collector can research to learn the whats and why's associated with the artifacts. Hunting artifacts is only the first step the second step which takes you to a new level is when you start to learn and study and research what you are finding. Your finds increase once you understand habitation and sites. You can go to google earth and pick likely sites at that point. Some people are just happy finding them when they have time and building a collection and they may be on a good site. I am good with that and enjoy seeing the finds

This site with the combined knowledge of members gives good assessments and should put you on track with that research and that should be one of our goals.
Happy hunting.

 

[bci101tractors]

JMO,
But, in a nutshell, these problems will always exist, no matter what, so you might as well just accept that. If you are not interested in what one posts, you can simply ignore it. If your jealous because a "rock" got more attention than your find, then you might as well get over that as well. When I was learning and deciphering the poster of the thread in question, I simply withdrew from his/her posts until I and others were verbally offended. As I stated in one of my posts, "Was I the only one that could see this coming", I remained neutral and stayed dormant, but enough was enough, and an attack on R.R. and I.G. was uncalled for.
Many here post there honest finds, many dont. For that reason alone, I shy away from keeping up with "attention seekers" and share them only with a few folk I have grown to trust.
Trust me, there will be more rocks and more bad eggs, just be nice as long as you can or bite your tongue, suck it up and don't try to change human nature, it never works unfortunatley....
We should emphasize honesty here as well... tough to do, I realize that.
Again, I have lots more to say, but that pretty much sums it up,
Steve

 

[bci101tractors]

Just one more thing as long as I'm sort of venting,
I would like to thank our mods. for what they do. Without them, Tnet would be chaos, and this site would be in shambles.
They are busy with their lives and any immediate expectations from them should be found with understanding and gratitude. Remember, this is not their livelihood their time and commitment taken here is time taken away from their family, friends and other hobbies.
I am grateful,
Steve

 

[namestoshk]

My husband says everything I find is a rock haha. Thinks its all a waste of time. I find that drives me sometimes to get out there more, and find something more amazing and proving ( I really do find things that arent rocks!) But I feel unless someone actually has something in front of them they cant always be 100%. The most experienced can only give just that, an opinion on their experience and knowledge thus far with it all. (And face it, we all arent professional photographers with perfect lighting every time)Im new to this site but not new to manners and common courtesy. We all are here because in one way or another, we share the same passion for what this earth has given us, and what our ancestors made with it. I hope my interaction on here with everyone will be pleasantly informative! And no throwing stones at me if what I did find maybe was a rock! =-O

 

[Tnmountains]

Nametoshk

I promise no one will throw stones at you. Good luck in your hunts and post what you find. We are glad to have you and welcome to t-net.