SEASON 8

[Al D]

Naw.....it’s Templar baby.......

 

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[Merlyn555]

The idea of the OI treasure being a hoax is just somebodies idea of an "easy answer" to the existence of some very perplexing and date verified evidence.

Carbon dating of wooden structures has shown that there was a sustained and heavy presence on the island long before settlers entered the area. I have been in that area and the terrain surrounding the island for a hundred miles makes travel by land very slow and arduous, the only access before the advent of roads was by water, and when approaching from the ocean you had better know where you are going with all the islands, shoals and hidden obstructions.

Considering all the heavy construction of slipways, docks and buildings predating local inhabitation this all suggests a moderate to large workforce with skilled knowledge and confident leadership. This was not an overnight affair, this would have taken some time and intelligent logistical support, just like a military operation.

If you'll notice I haven't mentioned treasure or tunnels because at this point in time there is no factual evidence to point in that direction, there are only stories and legends.

First answer the basic questions Who, Why and What were they doing, we already have a fair estimate of when. Answer those three questions and you will probably be able to conclude whether there is or is not a treasure to be found.

If the military were involved there would be physical evidence of defensive positions at key positions on the island or surrounding islands and mainland. A full archeological assessment of the surrounding area for several miles should be undertaken.

The answers will be found in the small details.

 

[Al D]

The idea of the OI treasure being a hoax is just somebodies idea of an "easy answer" to the existence of some very perplexing and date verified evidence.

Carbon dating of wooden structures has shown that there was a sustained and heavy presence on the island long before settlers entered the area. I have been in that area and the terrain surrounding the island for a hundred miles makes travel by land very slow and arduous, the only access before the advent of roads was by water, and when approaching from the ocean you had better know where you are going with all the islands, shoals and hidden obstructions.

Considering all the heavy construction of slipways, docks and buildings predating local inhabitation this all suggests a moderate to large workforce with skilled knowledge and confident leadership. This was not an overnight affair, this would have taken some time and intelligent logistical support, just like a military operation.

If you'll notice I haven't mentioned treasure or tunnels because at this point in time there is no factual evidence to point in that direction, there are only stories and legends.

First answer the basic questions Who, Why and What were they doing, we already have a fair estimate of when. Answer those three questions and you will probably be able to conclude whether there is or is not a treasure to be found.

If the military were involved there would be physical evidence of defensive positions at key positions on the island or surrounding islands and mainland. A full archeological assessment of the surrounding area for several miles should be undertaken.

The answers will be found in the small details.

Show us some of the “Date verified” evidence....lol

 

[gazzahk]

The idea of the OI treasure being a hoax is just somebodies idea of an "easy answer" to the existence of some very perplexing and date verified evidence.

Carbon dating of wooden structures has shown that there was a sustained and heavy presence on the island long before settlers entered the area. I have been in that area and the terrain surrounding the island for a hundred miles makes travel by land very slow and arduous, the only access before the advent of roads was by water, and when approaching from the ocean you had better know where you are going with all the islands, shoals and hidden obstructions.

Considering all the heavy construction of slipways, docks and buildings predating local inhabitation this all suggests a moderate to large workforce with skilled knowledge and confident leadership. This was not an overnight affair, this would have taken some time and intelligent logistical support, just like a military operation.

If you'll notice I haven't mentioned treasure or tunnels because at this point in time there is no factual evidence to point in that direction, there are only stories and legends.

First answer the basic questions Who, Why and What were they doing, we already have a fair estimate of when. Answer those three questions and you will probably be able to conclude whether there is or is not a treasure to be found.

If the military were involved there would be physical evidence of defensive positions at key positions on the island or surrounding islands and mainland. A full archeological assessment of the surrounding area for several miles should be undertaken.

The answers will be found in the small details.

I find J.Steele's explanation the most feasible answer to what has been found.

The problem with the show is they are not trying to find what happened on OI. They just want to 'spin' a treasure story when the evidence does not support that. What has been found supports normal human industry.

I wish they would look at the details and invite actual historians on the show rather than wackos and loonies...

 

[Merlyn555]

I fully agree with "gazzahk", the show is telling (selling) a story of it's own design, unsupported by substantiated and verified evidence this was the object of my last post

No rational and intelligent discussion of treasure should occur without an investigation delving into the history of the island's habitation. The only thing we know is that a group of men came to the island at some point in time, built some things and then vacated the premises leaving copious amounts of evidence of their passing. There does not appear to be any sign that they tried to destroy or hide this evidence. What evidence that has been found only shows that they did repair work of some sort on boats and that their construction methods and designs were good and fairly substantial but not meant to sustain the passage of time indicating to me that this group never intended to stay any longer than necessary on the island.

Spending more time, energy and resources on developing a credible timeline of occupation would save millions of dollars in haphazard drilling and digging but that would ruin the sensational nature of the show.

 

[Merlyn555]

What I am referring to when I stated (“Date verified” evidence) was the coconut fibers, found at different places on the island with various carbon dating results averaging circa 1750 (not quite sure of any of the dates right now.) Also samples of wood from the structures in Smiths Cove dated by Carbon 14 and dendrochronology and charcoal retrieved from the "Serpent Mound" also carbon dated.

These items were all placed in-situ by human beings and the dating of their placement is varying and approximate, the only thing that is undisputed in this whole mystery is the geographical location of the island.

The only thing that the “Date verified” evidence proves is that someone was there at that approximate time. It says nothing about who was there or what the purpose of their visit was.

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

What I am referring to when I stated (“Date verified” evidence) was the coconut fibers, found at different places on the island with various carbon dating results averaging circa 1750 (not quite sure of any of the dates right now.) Also samples of wood from the structures in Smiths Cove dated by Carbon 14 and dendrochronology and charcoal retrieved from the "Serpent Mound" also carbon dated.

These items were all placed in-situ by human beings and the dating of their placement is varying and approximate, the only thing that is undisputed in this whole mystery is the geographical location of the island.

The only thing that the “Date verified” evidence proves is that someone was there at that approximate time. It says nothing about who was there or what the purpose of their visit was.

To be clear, there is NO serpent mound on the island. They “found” a pile of debris from many years of hoax promoters digging on the island...

 

[Al D]

What I am referring to when I stated (“Date verified” evidence) was the coconut fibers, found at different places on the island with various carbon dating results averaging circa 1750 (not quite sure of any of the dates right now.) .

There are many statements from credible sources that claim those fibers were NOT coconut.
this make a big difference when attempting to date based upon C 14.
if you do not get the species correct, your date will be wrong.

 

[Merlyn555]

Now I just learned something about coconuts, thank you. I thought a coconut was a coconut but rushing to "fact check" your statement showed me how little I knew on the subject. Who'da thunk.

The real question is now who brought it there, it didn't just wash up with the tide, or did it?

The "Serpent Mounds" did bother me quite a bit. I've spent a fair bit of time crawling all over the mounds in Ontario and the OI one does not bear the slightest resemblance to them. I always thought it was a stretch to label it as such it could just as easily be called a "defensive fortification". Sound examination by geologists and archeologists needs to be done on so many things before jumping to conclusions and slapping labels on things.

And there-in lies the rub. Too many fanciful ideas being thrown around by untrained and semi-skilled people including myself.

Let the facts speak for themselves for there are precious few of them.

 

[franklin]

Now I just learned something about coconuts, thank you. I thought a coconut was a coconut but rushing to "fact check" your statement showed me how little I knew on the subject. Who'da thunk.

The real question is now who brought it there, it didn't just wash up with the tide, or did it?

The "Serpent Mounds" did bother me quite a bit. I've spent a fair bit of time crawling all over the mounds in Ontario and the OI one does not bear the slightest resemblance to them. I always thought it was a stretch to label it as such it could just as easily be called a "defensive fortification". Sound examination by geologists and archeologists needs to be done on so many things before jumping to conclusions and slapping labels on things.

And there-in lies the rub. Too many fanciful ideas being thrown around by untrained and semi-skilled people including myself.

Let the facts speak for themselves for there are precious few of them.

Most of that debris they first claim was a "Serpent Mound" came from a shaft that was dug 660 feet North of the Money Pit. Dug to 75 or 100 feet. The debris went somewhere. It was dug due to a drill finding one piece of wire.

 

[Al D]

Now I just learned something about coconuts, thank you. I thought a coconut was a coconut but rushing to "fact check" your statement showed me how little I knew on the subject. Who'da thunk.

The real question is now who brought it there, it didn't just wash up with the tide, or did it?

The "Serpent Mounds" did bother me quite a bit. I've spent a fair bit of time crawling all over the mounds in Ontario and the OI one does not bear the slightest resemblance to them. I always thought it was a stretch to label it as such it could just as easily be called a "defensive fortification". Sound examination by geologists and archeologists needs to be done on so many things before jumping to conclusions and slapping labels on things.

And there-in lies the rub. Too many fanciful ideas being thrown around by untrained and semi-skilled people including myself.

Let the facts speak for themselves for there are precious few of them.

The fibers were identified by one university as eel grass, which is abundant on OI, however, eel grass did not support the pirate treasure narrative, hence it was ignored.

 

[gazzahk]

The example of coconut fibre that they have on display at the Museum of the Atlantic is from the Caribbean.



Given that there have been multiple different dates and origins it would seem the most likely the fibre was from multiple original sources. As the fibre was commonly used as a packing material for freight on ships this would seem to be a plausible explanation of how it got there.

 

[MikeN]

Spoiler alert for this week's episode:










In the swamp, the producers planted the following objects for the actors to find:
a really old piece of thick glass (1600-late 1700's), probably an old pirate bottle. Later more of the stone road was excavated, and found to be curving away from the money pit. (maybe this was to give a gentler slope for the oxen to pull their heavy treasure carts up the hill). Then they find a small ancient iron lever with a square hole.

At the wash table, they find
Some plain wood
possible boot heel, likely made for a wealthier customer, carbon dated from 1492-1662 (95% confidence level). Columbus's spare boot from a stopover at the "New North Indies"?


In the money pit area, they find angled pieces of a wooden shaft 95 - 108 feet underground at a previously unknown shaft location. And a square nail from the 1700's. In borehole C8.5 at 40 feet, they find wood believed to be from the collapsed 1850 Tupper shaft. They are within 10 feet of the money pit!

The previously discovered OC1 Rosehead spike was surrounded by a material analyzed to be low calcium concrete, similar to what is expected to surround the Chappell Vault. The spike material was consistent with old iron originating from the UK.

They have been able to realize more good fortune than ever before in their quest to find out what happened on Oak Island.

 

[gazzahk]

Thanks Mike.. Great summary as usual.

The problem they have is no one is disputing that there is significant evidence that Oak Island has been inhabited/visited/harvested by multiple different groups of people for hundreds of years... It just they have ZERO evidence that anything to do with any of these people hiding treasure there.

The evidence is the opposite actually. The seems to be little evidence that the people that built stuff there made any attempt at hiding their presence. One would assume if someone hid treasure they would of removed evidence of their activity there. Not left stone roads and wooden piers...

So what they are finding adds very little to the OI story. Even Dan Blankenship back when he is pictured at their table full of junk from an earlier season said as much. Yes there is surface evidence of habitation but zero evidence of treasure hiding, Knights Templar, Shakespeare, Mary Antoinette, Aztec gold, Pirate treasure and such like.

As to finding more wooden shafts in the money pit area meaning they are closer to the treasure hoard is just farcical. If there was anything metal buried in the area the pattern drilling they did in season 5 would of found it. They drilled the whole area and lowered metal detectors down each drill hole. No metal was discovered so no treasure.

Even earlier dated wood just shows when a tree was cut down not when it was buried. Existing wood structures/fallen tress could of easily been re-purposed as tunnel supports by later searchers. It is much easier to use a tree/timber that is lying around rather then cut down a new tree.

Take a look at the list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Curse_of_Oak_Island_episodes from the 124 episodes of the show so far... NOTHING found in anyway supports treasure being hidden on OI. Everything they have found so far would have a market value of less the $100 (being generous and assuming some of the old coins have a value)

At the same time they have spent now well in excess of $10 to 20 million dollars on their "search"...

It is pretty boring TV these days (why I stooped watching) just a few old guys walking around an island in Canada finding junk and rubbish...

 

[n2mini]

Ya'll complain the show is taking "liberties" as I'll call them on what they find and always tying it to some treasure theory. Yet MikeN you just said in your first sentence above that the Producers planted what was found in the swamp. Do you know this for a fact? Do you work on the show? How much of your post are you saying they planted. The glass, stone road, the wood, the leather show sole? Just because you do not believe in what they are doing just post the show as presented or your as bad as you think they are if your adding in your own narrative...

gassahk. Do you honestly believe that someone used trees that were cut down and have laying around on the ground for 200-300 years or more to build the tunnel braces and or stuff in smiths cove, and else where. Yes it is easier to use a tree already cut down and if only been laying around 5-20 years or so I'd agree with you on that but don't think a cut tree that is been laying there for well over 200 years is going to be much good to anyone...here is a quickie google search--
How long does a tree take to rot?
57 to 124 years
The computer model calculates that the “residence times” (how long a tree will take to completely decompose) for conifer species range from 57 to 124 years, while hardwood species are typically around on the forest floor for 46 to 71 years.

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

Spoiler alert for this week's episode:

In the swamp, the producers planted the following objects for the actors to find:
a really old piece of thick glass (1600-late 1700's), probably an old pirate bottle. Later more of the stone road was excavated, and found to be curving away from the money pit. (maybe this was to give a gentler slope for the oxen to pull their heavy treasure carts up the hill). Then they find a small ancient iron lever with a square hole.

At the wash table, they find
Some plain wood
possible boot heel, likely made for a wealthier customer, carbon dated from 1492-1662 (95% confidence level). Columbus's spare boot from a stopover at the "New North Indies"?


In the money pit area, they find angled pieces of a wooden shaft 95 - 108 feet underground at a previously unknown shaft location. And a square nail from the 1700's. In borehole C8.5 at 40 feet, they find wood believed to be from the collapsed 1850 Tupper shaft. They are within 10 feet of the money pit!

The previously discovered OC1 Rosehead spike was surrounded by a material analyzed to be low calcium concrete, similar to what is expected to surround the Chappell Vault. The spike material was consistent with old iron originating from the UK.

They have been able to realize more good fortune than ever before in their quest to find out what happened on Oak Island.

Yet another episode of nothing but trying to exploit finding common garbage left over from hundreds of years of human habitation. 100% of the lagina show’s theories have been proven to be fiction...

 

[freeman]

There is a rather fundamental problem now.

The search was started due to people thinking a treasure had been buried in a certain spot.

That spot and the area around it has been excavated and drilled numerous times with no treasure located.

The logic that they rely on now to keep the fantasy going is that perhaps the excavations and drills missed the exact spot, so they are now trying any spot not tried before.

The remaining unprobed areas left to try though have not only been getting fewer but smaller: so the possibility of an underground vault has been eliminated, then an area with numerous chests, together etc.

The more they eliminate, the smaller the area remains that could possibly contain something.

I think they are about down to cake tin size now. Shortly Rick will be hoping that they might yet still find the Oak Island Matchbox vault.....

 

[MikeN]

As to finding more wooden shafts in the money pit area meaning they are closer to the treasure hoard is just farcical. If there was anything metal buried in the area the pattern drilling they did in season 5 would of found it. They drilled the whole area and lowered metal detectors down each drill hole. No metal was discovered so no treasure.

The metal detector did indicate in one of the drill shafts (possibly one or more of the adjacent shafts). They sunk a large can in that area but found nothing. The Chappell Vault managed to move out of the way in time.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Reality shows

Storage Wars: caught planting items in the lockers to make it more interesting

Pawn Stars: people bringing in items that are then authenticated by an expert - turns out person with item works for the expert....

Survival shows: show filmed outside Orlando but is a "remote" location - person with medical emergency no one on the large crew can help them....

why would the curse be different?

 

[gazzahk]

gassahk. Do you honestly believe that someone used trees that were cut down and have laying around on the ground for 200-300 years or more to build the tunnel braces and or stuff in smiths cove, and else where. Yes it is easier to use a tree already cut down and if only been laying around 5-20 years or so I'd agree with you on that but don't think a cut tree that is been laying there for well over 200 years is going to be much good to anyone...here is a quickie google search--
How long does a tree take to rot?
57 to 124 years
The computer model calculates that the “residence times” (how long a tree will take to completely decompose) for conifer species range from 57 to 124 years, while hardwood species are typically around on the forest floor for 46 to 71 years.

The logs they found in Smiths Cove were 250+ years old and were not rotting... Whos knows how much more of that structure was around for example..

Anyway what i was saying is their claims of more old wood in the area around the money pit are just more claims of old wood...

That is all they have found. Old wood... No metal.. no treasure.. Nothing to support a belief that the wood was not just left over from a previous searchers efforts... None of the other searchers in the 200+ years have been claiming to find ancient mine shafts in the money pit area supported by wooden braces. Just the Laginas... A unfound shaft at 100 feet.. Really this a couple off weeks after they found an ancient templar serpent mound...

Pulling old wood from the ground there is just not in anyway interesting or supportive of treasure being buried there.