Teburshock
Jr. Member
Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??
Hey Dinky, Thanks .... appreciate it..
Hey Dinky, Thanks .... appreciate it..
SGTDirk
Jr. Member
Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??
Cornelius, I think that you should also mention that PADI, NAUI, SSI or any other recreational dive certification does not train you to do any type of salvage work. That is why they invented Commercial Dive Schools. It can be very dangerous to attempt any type of retrieval underwater with out the proper training.
Next anyone attempting to breath air below 120fsw should be extreamly careful as most people can not handle air at that depth, and to try and do it with nitrox is almost as stupid. That is why Commercial divers use Heliox. Its much safer, but requires special training too. Scuba is not safe or exceptable for most types of salvage and recovery work. That is why they invented dive helmets. And according to OSHA to do any type of commercial work you must have a 4 man crew minimum. 1 diver, 1 standby diver, a tender, and a forman. I never really hear anyone mention too much about having help on a job...
Dirk
Cornelius, I think that you should also mention that PADI, NAUI, SSI or any other recreational dive certification does not train you to do any type of salvage work. That is why they invented Commercial Dive Schools. It can be very dangerous to attempt any type of retrieval underwater with out the proper training.
Next anyone attempting to breath air below 120fsw should be extreamly careful as most people can not handle air at that depth, and to try and do it with nitrox is almost as stupid. That is why Commercial divers use Heliox. Its much safer, but requires special training too. Scuba is not safe or exceptable for most types of salvage and recovery work. That is why they invented dive helmets. And according to OSHA to do any type of commercial work you must have a 4 man crew minimum. 1 diver, 1 standby diver, a tender, and a forman. I never really hear anyone mention too much about having help on a job...
Dirk
ceolacanth
Jr. Member
Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??
Did someone just recently complete a commercial dive course
Commercial dive schools dont teach you jack about salvage, I come accross many adept self taught Salvors with good understanding of salvage "the complete package"who as Cornelius has mentioned only have Sports diver training.
Todays young commercial divers tend to assume that their newly aquired certification places them in a different class 'SO WRONG"
When employing new personnel one wouldnt ask a Doctor if he could drive a car one would just assume that to be, as driving is merley a means to get to work.
To a commercial diving company so is the initial commercial dive certificates as all they are is allowing him/her a legal means to get to work NOW THE BIG Question is "great now you can get there what can you do" This is where all the actual work trades welding, cutting, NDT, etc, etc come into play. The actual Commercial dive school courses (Air Diving) Cover not much more than Sports Diving schools in regards to actul Diving theory and understanding od Diving Principles. Sure they use differant diving gear and Tools which initially seem all so high Tech and "cool" but later on The trainee will relize that their really isnt much differance between types of Diving Gear in fact they are very similar. Whether it be the second stage on a KMB 57 or a a sports diving Regulator "the priciple design is the same"
Dont be led into a false determination that someone who is commercial trained and certified is superior in Knowledge and skills compared to A person trained by sports diving certification groups. As with anything it is always the individual "behind the wheel"
Did someone just recently complete a commercial dive course
Commercial dive schools dont teach you jack about salvage, I come accross many adept self taught Salvors with good understanding of salvage "the complete package"who as Cornelius has mentioned only have Sports diver training.
Todays young commercial divers tend to assume that their newly aquired certification places them in a different class 'SO WRONG"
When employing new personnel one wouldnt ask a Doctor if he could drive a car one would just assume that to be, as driving is merley a means to get to work.
To a commercial diving company so is the initial commercial dive certificates as all they are is allowing him/her a legal means to get to work NOW THE BIG Question is "great now you can get there what can you do" This is where all the actual work trades welding, cutting, NDT, etc, etc come into play. The actual Commercial dive school courses (Air Diving) Cover not much more than Sports Diving schools in regards to actul Diving theory and understanding od Diving Principles. Sure they use differant diving gear and Tools which initially seem all so high Tech and "cool" but later on The trainee will relize that their really isnt much differance between types of Diving Gear in fact they are very similar. Whether it be the second stage on a KMB 57 or a a sports diving Regulator "the priciple design is the same"
Dont be led into a false determination that someone who is commercial trained and certified is superior in Knowledge and skills compared to A person trained by sports diving certification groups. As with anything it is always the individual "behind the wheel"
SGTDirk
Jr. Member
Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??
ceolacanth, How can someone who seems to be educated be so ignorant at the same time?? Your truth is only partial. I graduated 7 yrs ago, not yesterday. And while you know some of the gear, you have no idea of what is taught at the schools. I can't speak for all of them, but I went to the Ocean Corp in Houston, TX. and we learned a heck of alot more than you realize. Just to state a few. We covered in depth:
1. Basic Scuba
2. Rigging
3. Air diving with a hat
4. Mix gas diving
5. Hyperbaric chamber operations
6. Welding
7. Underwater welding
8. Tending
9. Air delivery operation
10. Salvage
11. Dredging
12. Construction
13. NDT
14. ROV operation
15. Dive Bell operation
16. Basic Dive Medicine
And the course lasted 9 months. But you were right in one thing. It is just to teach you the basics. What you do once you get down there is up to you. But when I walked away from the course as a new tender I knew how to plan a dive as well as what my limitations were. While I was in dive school, 2 people died in the gulf, because of stupid mistakes on the job. Because of people like you who think they know everything. So don't come at me with your recreational diving experiance and expect me to let you attempt to belittle me. I have forgot more in the 7 yrs than you will ever know.
The only reason I bring this up to people is that I wanted them to be safe. Diving can be fun and enjoyable, but it only takes 1 minor mistake to ruin a great day out. And until you can grow gills underwater, take my warnings and get proper training.
Dirk
PS. Oh and by the way you don't graduate school as a "Diver" you graduate as a Tender, which gives you a license to go out and learn, and get experiance it takes 2 yrs or so to make Commercial Diver.
ceolacanth, How can someone who seems to be educated be so ignorant at the same time?? Your truth is only partial. I graduated 7 yrs ago, not yesterday. And while you know some of the gear, you have no idea of what is taught at the schools. I can't speak for all of them, but I went to the Ocean Corp in Houston, TX. and we learned a heck of alot more than you realize. Just to state a few. We covered in depth:
1. Basic Scuba
2. Rigging
3. Air diving with a hat
4. Mix gas diving
5. Hyperbaric chamber operations
6. Welding
7. Underwater welding
8. Tending
9. Air delivery operation
10. Salvage
11. Dredging
12. Construction
13. NDT
14. ROV operation
15. Dive Bell operation
16. Basic Dive Medicine
And the course lasted 9 months. But you were right in one thing. It is just to teach you the basics. What you do once you get down there is up to you. But when I walked away from the course as a new tender I knew how to plan a dive as well as what my limitations were. While I was in dive school, 2 people died in the gulf, because of stupid mistakes on the job. Because of people like you who think they know everything. So don't come at me with your recreational diving experiance and expect me to let you attempt to belittle me. I have forgot more in the 7 yrs than you will ever know.
The only reason I bring this up to people is that I wanted them to be safe. Diving can be fun and enjoyable, but it only takes 1 minor mistake to ruin a great day out. And until you can grow gills underwater, take my warnings and get proper training.
Dirk
PS. Oh and by the way you don't graduate school as a "Diver" you graduate as a Tender, which gives you a license to go out and learn, and get experiance it takes 2 yrs or so to make Commercial Diver.
Indiana_Jonz
Jr. Member
Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??
SGTDIRK
Have you ever dove an old 1600's or 1700's wreck?
SGTDIRK
Have you ever dove an old 1600's or 1700's wreck?
SGTDirk
Jr. Member
Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??
My God some of you are so ignorant. All I have done or said is that you should get some proper training so that you dive safe. I never attacked anyone. It was ceolacanth who questioned my experiance. The only point I have made is to dive safely. And a scuba diver that has had no additional training is not a safe diver. instead of saying crap to me go back and read the entire conversation. I even took the time to list exactly who I was addressing.
Dirk
My God some of you are so ignorant. All I have done or said is that you should get some proper training so that you dive safe. I never attacked anyone. It was ceolacanth who questioned my experiance. The only point I have made is to dive safely. And a scuba diver that has had no additional training is not a safe diver. instead of saying crap to me go back and read the entire conversation. I even took the time to list exactly who I was addressing.
Dirk
ceolacanth
Jr. Member
Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??
My my what a hornets nest I have started, enough of the poison pens !
Sgt Dirk thank you for pointing out my ignorance but usually informing me isn?t necessary I get constantly reminded of this on a daily basis all by myself thank you.
I would however like to set the record straight on a few points that you made:
1) I do not just know some of the gear I am very familiar with all Commercial diving equipment (incl submersibles , R.O.V,S, atmospheric suits etc)
2) You are correct I am not quite up to speed in what is taught in schools Today or 7 yrs ago.
3)The 2 deaths you refer to had nothing to do with me and because of people like me many young people like you are still here Today and have a far safer environment and working standards in the commercial diving Industry.
4) I am not ?coming at you with my recreational diving experience? as I do not differentiate between the two, Diving is Diving and I have learned more about artifact recovery and salvage from Sports Divers than I ever did from Commercial Divers.
5)I was not attempting to belittle you (but after your last posting I do think that your doing a pretty good job of it yourself)
6) I am also sorry that you have forgotten so much over the last 7 years, but to make an assumption on what or what I do or don?t know is rather cocky and full of yourself.
So in short you graduated 7 yrs ago which puts you as being a commercial diver for 5 yrs (assuming you have had full time employment) Well done, Usually I don?t post experience I try to limit it to experiences that all can enjoy or chuckle about but just for you I will let you know that I was a Saturation Diving Superintendent in the North Sea 7 yrs ago and can probably quite safely say that I have spent more time over 600ft than you have on air. This doesn?t make me any safer in the water than many of my sport diving friends , in fact sometimes complacency and the lack of all the support puts me at a disadvantage.
I wish you well in your Diving career and hopefully time will mellow you a little, if you can take one piece of advice : THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GOOD DIVER OR A BAD DIVER?ALL DIVERS ARE AVERAGE?ITS JUST THE AVERAGE DIVER WHO SCREWS UP THAT MAKES THE OTHER AVERAGE DIVERS LOOK GOOD.
My my what a hornets nest I have started, enough of the poison pens !
Sgt Dirk thank you for pointing out my ignorance but usually informing me isn?t necessary I get constantly reminded of this on a daily basis all by myself thank you.
I would however like to set the record straight on a few points that you made:
1) I do not just know some of the gear I am very familiar with all Commercial diving equipment (incl submersibles , R.O.V,S, atmospheric suits etc)
2) You are correct I am not quite up to speed in what is taught in schools Today or 7 yrs ago.
3)The 2 deaths you refer to had nothing to do with me and because of people like me many young people like you are still here Today and have a far safer environment and working standards in the commercial diving Industry.
4) I am not ?coming at you with my recreational diving experience? as I do not differentiate between the two, Diving is Diving and I have learned more about artifact recovery and salvage from Sports Divers than I ever did from Commercial Divers.
5)I was not attempting to belittle you (but after your last posting I do think that your doing a pretty good job of it yourself)
6) I am also sorry that you have forgotten so much over the last 7 years, but to make an assumption on what or what I do or don?t know is rather cocky and full of yourself.
So in short you graduated 7 yrs ago which puts you as being a commercial diver for 5 yrs (assuming you have had full time employment) Well done, Usually I don?t post experience I try to limit it to experiences that all can enjoy or chuckle about but just for you I will let you know that I was a Saturation Diving Superintendent in the North Sea 7 yrs ago and can probably quite safely say that I have spent more time over 600ft than you have on air. This doesn?t make me any safer in the water than many of my sport diving friends , in fact sometimes complacency and the lack of all the support puts me at a disadvantage.
I wish you well in your Diving career and hopefully time will mellow you a little, if you can take one piece of advice : THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GOOD DIVER OR A BAD DIVER?ALL DIVERS ARE AVERAGE?ITS JUST THE AVERAGE DIVER WHO SCREWS UP THAT MAKES THE OTHER AVERAGE DIVERS LOOK GOOD.
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Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??
Dirk, welcome to the Forum. Gentlemen, both sides of this argument make good points, and I have been on both sides, as an un-certified diver during my early years. And now as an older and wiser certified diver I require at least an open water dive certification aboard my salvage boat. Safety must always be a top priority regardless, of your being a recreational weekend treasure diver working in the shallows, or a professional salvage diver that requires mixed gas for long deep dives.
As moderator of this forum I offer this word of caution. Keep your arguments civil and don?t reduce the debate to name calling and insults.
Thanks
Q
Dirk, welcome to the Forum. Gentlemen, both sides of this argument make good points, and I have been on both sides, as an un-certified diver during my early years. And now as an older and wiser certified diver I require at least an open water dive certification aboard my salvage boat. Safety must always be a top priority regardless, of your being a recreational weekend treasure diver working in the shallows, or a professional salvage diver that requires mixed gas for long deep dives.
As moderator of this forum I offer this word of caution. Keep your arguments civil and don?t reduce the debate to name calling and insults.
Thanks
Q
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
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Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I exist to live, not live to exist"
Q_A)? While I agree 100 % with The above post wth "my nickname",? ?Did I post it? Just don't remember? ?curious. (second 100 years does weird things to one's memory) heheheh
I have used aircraft oil based compresors to fill my tanks in remote areas, but I was always hypercautious on the cleanliness of the air and "only"? used oil especially designed for compressors with the highest flash point that I could find to eliminate any Co? build up.
Jose de La Mancha ( I tilt windmills )
Q)? Curious
RealdeTayopa said:
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I exist to live, not live to exist"
Q_A)? While I agree 100 % with The above post wth "my nickname",? ?Did I post it
? Just don't remember? ?curious. (second 100 years does weird things to one's memory) hehehehI have used aircraft oil based compresors to fill my tanks in remote areas, but I was always hypercautious on the cleanliness of the air and "only"? used oil especially designed for compressors with the highest flash point that I could find to eliminate any Co? build up.
Jose de La Mancha ( I tilt windmills )
Q)? Curious
TheRandyMan
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Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??
I am reviving this thread as after I read the entire thread I felt like many could benefit from the information in it as much as I did. Very valuable and I will be putting it to use sometime in the future. Enjoy!
I am reviving this thread as after I read the entire thread I felt like many could benefit from the information in it as much as I did. Very valuable and I will be putting it to use sometime in the future. Enjoy!
CaptJohn
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Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??
Yea. Its a good one, read the post of dinkydick, just b4 the four pics of his air lift tube. And somewhere after that, liquid resin use.
Yea. Its a good one, read the post of dinkydick, just b4 the four pics of his air lift tube. And somewhere after that, liquid resin use.
loot and scoot
Greenie
Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??
Below is a thread where I posted an article I wrote on using a dredge for use by Law Enforcement for evidence recovery.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,379313.0.html
Below is a thread where I posted an article I wrote on using a dredge for use by Law Enforcement for evidence recovery.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,379313.0.html
Curtis
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Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??
Teburschock,
The Dredge will work horizontal while the airlift will not...a 2-4 inch gold dredge would probably be what you want my students made one using a trashpump ($220 new) for under $500 bucks. They used 8 inch diameter tubing that is thinwalled for air ducts-PVC for the floats. We made our own Y for the 1 inch to 4 inch section...but you can buy it from keen forlike $150 bucks. Good luck on the treasure recovery!
Teburschock,
The Dredge will work horizontal while the airlift will not...a 2-4 inch gold dredge would probably be what you want my students made one using a trashpump ($220 new) for under $500 bucks. They used 8 inch diameter tubing that is thinwalled for air ducts-PVC for the floats. We made our own Y for the 1 inch to 4 inch section...but you can buy it from keen forlike $150 bucks. Good luck on the treasure recovery!
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