Solved? more input needed on old no-name pistol

[dozer dan]

here are the pictures of my pistol. the only pictures i could find to match it is the griswold and gunnison. my pistol is .36 cal. brass frame with a round barrel. there is no name on it. the ser. # is in the 17,000s and stamped two times on the brass, one time on the cylinder, and one time under the barrel assembly. all ser. #s match. the ser #s are erratic as they are not aligned well. the rod is 2 piece construction, in the pictures you can see this. there also appeares to be a blood etched finger print on the underside of the barrel. one person i asked to examin it said he thought he saw a tiny stamping on the cylinder of a crescent moon with a star in it. i however do not see this.
i am grateful for your interest and any info you could provide. sorry about the pic's. im still catchin on. Dan

 

[dozer dan]

I dont mean to type and run, but I have to get to work now. I'll stay after this and keep you informed.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

As for the serial numbers on my pistol. As long as I have owned it nothing other than a
screwdriver to disassemble it for pictures has touched it.

I didnt mean to imply that you filed anything. It just appears, that sometime in the past, the number was filed off and restamped with modern dies. Its the only explanation in your favor for the modern fonts and only chance I see to be authentic.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Maybe I should just send it to the U.K. along with a high price and a claim that it originally belonged to John Wilks Booth and hope it sells. It seems they don't require proof over there.

LOL Good research dozer and thanks for sharing. Metal testing lol. I gotta go myself.

 

[Monty]

Sometimes you just can't acquire a 100% ID on something and I think that is the case on this revolver. Monty

 

[dozer dan]

For a long time now I have been doing searches on the internet for antique arms experts and emailing them about this pistol. I understand they are important and busy people and I don't expect much from them. Very few even reply at all and when they do, its usually just to tell me that they are too busy to be bothered with. Momma allways said I wasn't the shiniest bolt in the box and I knew that sometimes it takes a good while for me to catch on but I think I'm beginning to see a pattern here as "the experts" are not going to offer anything if there is no proffit in it for them. It took a while but I think now I understand. I was kinda thinking to myself, if I did something for a living I probably wouldn't offer advice for free either. That's not true. There are a lot of instances in the past where I would explain to people who cant afford my services how to do it themselves and tell them to call anytime if they have problems or need help. personally I think that's the way life should be but I digress. I really had high hopes for this one sent to Norm Flayderman author of "Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms and Their Values"a couple weeks ago.

On the upside of all of this? It makes me very apriciative of tnet and its members who do this for the love of it and not $$$$.

Merry Christmas everyone. Dan



In a message dated 12/2/2011 11:55:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, dozerdan writes:


Mr. Flayderman, I have a 1851 navy pistol of unknown make that I have been trying to identify for several years now. The reviews that I get back are always mixed as to authentic or reproduction. I have asked many knowledgeable people with civil war weapons websites who cant help. I live in a small s. Oregon city with a few self proclaimed firearms experts who when they examined it, usually replied with "its a copy, what would you take for it"? If you would be so kind, please take a look at it and provide your openion? I have it posted on a metal detecting website for unidentifiable artifacts that show pictures of it from every angle and taken apart. While at the computer once again yesterday, I really think I have hit on another one just like it. I put all that info on my last posting with a picture of the one I found. Provided below is a link to Treasurenet.com where it can be seen with all the details. Thanks ever so much for your time and trouble. Dan

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,224899.0.html




Dear Dan:



We appreciate being selected to comment on your inquiry concerning your Navy pistol in our field of specialty and very much regret that due to time and personal constraints and the volume of similar inquiries received, we are unable to give an adequate or satisfactory response.



Many thanks for your understanding.



Best Regards,



N. FLAYDERMAN & CO., INC.

 

[dcinffxva]

Glad to see this mystery is still being worked on

Norm Flayderman is a great guy, and one of the best sources out there. Too bad he couldn't help you nail it down. I'm going to repeat a little from page one of this, and suggest you get another REAL expert opinion. You have gotten some great opinions by some folks that obviously know what they are talking about, however, nothing is going to substitute a professional appraisal by someone in person.

I'm on the east coast, and my source is David Condon. I've dealt with him for a number of years, and trust his judgement. I'm just not familiar with many of the west coast guys except for Greg Martin. If you honestly think this might be a $20,000 revolver, then put it in an experts hands. Until you do, I doubt you will ever achieve a green check on this thread.

 

[l.cutler]

Glad to see this mystery is still being worked on

Norm Flayderman is a great guy, and one of the best sources out there. Too bad he couldn't help you nail it down. I'm going to repeat a little from page one of this, and suggest you get another REAL expert opinion. You have gotten some great opinions by some folks that obviously know what they are talking about, however, nothing is going to substitute a professional appraisal by someone in person.

I'm on the east coast, and my source is David Condon. I've dealt with him for a number of years, and trust his judgement. I'm just not familiar with many of the west coast guys except for Greg Martin. If you honestly think this might be a $20,000 revolver, then put it in an experts hands. Until you do, I doubt you will ever achieve a green check on this thread.

Well said!

 

[dozer dan]

Glad to see this mystery is still being worked on

Norm Flayderman is a great guy, and one of the best sources out there. Too bad he couldn't help you nail it down. I'm going to repeat a little from page one of this, and suggest you get another REAL expert opinion. You have gotten some great opinions by some folks that obviously know what they are talking about, however, nothing is going to substitute a professional appraisal by someone in person.

I'm on the east coast, and my source is David Condon. I've dealt with him for a number of years, and trust his judgement. I'm just not familiar with many of the west coast guys except for Greg Martin. If you honestly think this might be a $20,000 revolver, then put it in an experts hands. Until you do, I doubt you will ever achieve a green check on this thread.

Well said!

Just a little follow up. I sent this to David Condon on 1-17-12 like suggested.



To info@davidcondon.com

Mr. Condon, I was referred to you by friends on a treasure hunting website that I am a member of in the hopes of you helping to solve a firearms puzzle. I have a 1851 navy pistol of unknown make that I have been trying to identify for several years now. The reviews that I get back are always mixed as to authentic or reproduction. I have asked many knowledgeable people with civil war weapons websites who cant or have no interest in helping. I live in a small Southern Oregon city with a few self proclaimed firearms experts who when they examined it, usually replied with "its a copy" and immediately followed with "what would you take for it"? If you would be so kind, please take a look at it and provide your opinion? I have it posted on a metal detecting website for unidentifiable artifacts that show pictures of it from every angle and taken apart. It can be found in the "what is it category" with the title "Solved? more input needed on old no-name pistol" with the last posting date of 1-3-12. A while back at the computer once again, I really think I have hit on another one just like it. I put all that info on my last posting with a picture of the one I found. Provided below is a link to Treasurenet.com where it can be seen with all the details. Thanks ever so much for your time and trouble.

Dan

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,224899.0.html



As of today, Sunday 1-22-12 no response or reply.
I am willing to try emailing other experts if anyone has one in mind.

 

[nsdq]

appears to be a traditions frame, i have reproduction 1851 44 cal navy model that looks just like it, hope that may help good luck an happy huntin

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

appears to be a traditions frame, i have reproduction 1851 44 cal navy model that looks just like it, hope that may help good luck an happy huntin

I dont think the round barrel is Traditions. Is your barrel octagon or round? The brass frame maybe but not the barrel.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

On the upside of all of this? It makes me very apriciative of tnet and its members who do this for the love of it and not $$$$.

Merry Christmas everyone. Dan

Thanks Dan.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Hello dozer. I ran across a replica Griswold with a round barrel. The manufacturer is Pietta. They made guns in the 50s-60's. You may want to check it out.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

There are 2 compainies you may want to check. Uberti and Pietta.

I found this information a few months ago and sorry I lost the links.

Below is an unblued replica from Pietta

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Pietti has been in business since 1959. Heres a link on markings. I havent read it. https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/POWDER/MBPProofmarks.pdf

 

[dozer dan]

It looks very similar to mine. I remember several people mentioning in this post that they have never seen a repro without "black powder only" or where it was made stamped on it. I don't know if this is true or not.

Now a bit of good news, motel reservations have been made for 4/7 and 4/8/12 in Reno
for the gun show. It is said to be the size of 4 football fields. I will be there with the pistol and coming back with an answer or without the pistol. Either way I'll be better off.

 

[dozer dan]

It's been a while now, anybody interested in rehashing this thread or beating a dead horse for new member thoughts?

 

[mcl]

It's been a while now, anybody interested in rehashing this thread or beating a dead horse for new member thoughts?

Hey Danny!

I'd love to help out. I really know very little about guns, but one thing I am really good at is the internet. Maybe I can be of some assistance. I'll look around.

But in the meantime I have two suggestions that I think would really help out:

1) The original pictures you provided are very low resolution. I think it's time to take some HD photos with whatever you have available; a mobile phone, a camera, doesn't matter. But we could really benefit from larger more detailed pictures of all relevant components.

2) I strongly suspect that the lack of replies from experts has a lot to do with the fact that most of the information you gave them was spread out across a 15-page forum thread. I think if you were able to distill the discussion into for example what you think are the top 10 most important talking points/facts, that you'd be much more likely to get a response. That way the expert doesn't have to come through all of the background noise on T-Net to find the information they need.

If I had to pick only one or the other, I'd ask for the updated pictures. Once I have those I will not only be able to do a good search but also share them with other individuals/websites that may know something.

- mcl

 

[Anduril]

It's been a while now, anybody interested in rehashing this thread or beating a dead horse for new member thoughts?

Are you aware of the "Forgotten Weapons" channel on YouTube?
https://www.youtube.com/user/ForgottenWeapons/videos

You could get lucky and spot it in there, or maybe reach out to Ian McCollum (at the above YouTube) and ask him.
He seems to be an expert in the field of antique firearms. Just a thought..

 

[mcl]

For what it's worth Danny, I looked at many, many similar guns this afternoon, and could only find a single manufacturer that stamped "Cal. 36" in exactly that case and punctuation in exactly that font in exactly that place: Uberti. I also found one more that had the same "Cal. 36" stamp in that case/punctuation/font but in a different place, which apparently was manufactured by Uberti and imported by Navy Arms. I also found a number of guns with the same stamp but saying "Cal. 44", all of which were manufactured by Uberti. I also found a French-language website on which there were appears to be a discussion and photos of Uberti revolvers that a poster routinely sends off to have the finish and manufacturer stamps removed.

For reference, I understand that this is not exactly the gun you are posting about, but you will note the identical "Cal. 36" stamp it has:



It is an Uberti 1851 Navy Sheriff.

If you're interested, here is one of those guns from the French language website following the removal of the Uberti stamps and finish:



Again not exactly your gun just a reference.

Let me know if any of this information was helpful/new. Don't want to state the obvious.

-mcl

 

[mcl]

Oh one more to look at that I think has some stuff in common with yours: