🔎 UNIDENTIFIED Some Kind of short sword?

[Hbot37]

I found this in the yard of a house built in 1795. The builder fought as a loyalist in the revolutionary war. In later years, residents also fought for the confederacy. I found this shoved vertically into the ground in the side yard. It’s very short, and rusted into the scabbard. I know nothing about swords and can’t find anything online.

 

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[creskol]

I am not seeing it at all. Metal tube and blade look way too flimsy for either.

 

[Retired Sarge]

I could be wrong, but the opening of the tube (throat) looks too big/wide to be a bayonet/sword scabbard. The throat is normally narrow to lock the bayonet in it. See pictures below for an example of what I mean. I pulled two different bayonets off rifles. A Yakatan/Chassepot style from an Egyptian Remington Rolling Block (Pic 4) and a long bayonet from a Yugoslavia M1924 Mauser (Pics 1-3).

Also scabbard are typically flat versus round like we are seeing with item the OP found. Again see example in the attached pictures.

 

[UnderMiner]

Looks like a bayonet to me. Perhaps you should put it through an electrolysis bath?

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

I've never seen a hollow grounding rod with a curled end. Honestly are you guys even looking at the pic?

Swords don't, but the scabbard for a toy sword might. Its not hooked in a way that's meant for pulling on something so I doubt its a fireplace damper.

It sounds to me like you've already convinced yourself that this is a sword and no matter what's suggested you're going to discount it.

 

[Hbot37]

Ida yanked it out by now🤘

I would if I could. Gonna run it through some electrolysis here in the next couple of days to try to loosen it up a little

 

[Mud Hut]

Lightning grounding rods are made of iron or steel bars with a copper sheath. Any wood frame house built in 1795 would have at least one and usually several lightning rods and ground points.

Today the copper sheath on the iron is just a thick copper electroplate but prior to 1900 the copper sheath was a sheet of copper wrapped around an iron rod.

Often when the rod was pounded into the ground a rock or other obstruction would cause the copper sheath to bend.

Your picture resembles other lightning ground rods I've seen. All we have is a picture to go by. You see a child's sword, I see a ground rod. Without more information all we have is what we see.

Maybe it is a child's sword that was used as a ground rod, or vice versa.

 

[Retired Sarge]

I don't see the provisions for the Suspension Rings on the "Scabbard" for attachment to the sword hanger straps. The tip looks like a ball, I don't know of any swords with a Ball Finial at the end, doesn't mean they don't exsist. I know they have Drags, and Chapes, Crests, etc on the tip of the scabbard depending on the style.

I know there are bayonet scabbards that have a Ball Finial. But there are not many bayonets that are curved. I went through my collection of rifles and bayonets and I have only one curved like a sword. The Chassepot/Yataghan style sword bayonet, there could be others. It has a 22 1/2 inch blade and a total length of 27 1/2 inches from the pommel to the tip.

 

[RTR]

Might be some info on the blade if you can get it out of the scabbard

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I'm not seeing anything blade-like or militaristic. The "tang" is too small/thin for anything that needed force.

 

[Clay Diggins]

With the short length and the location of the find I would suspect a lightning ground rod.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Here's a dug relic condition sword from the American Civil War, notice how thick the tang still is.

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[Clay Diggins]

I’m open to anything. Show me a picture of a grounding rod that looks even remotely similar and I’d accept it. After the comment I looked and found nothing. So I’m just confused where the idea that it’s a grounding rod is coming from.

Lightning grounding rods are made of iron or steel bars with a copper sheath. Any wood frame house built in 1795 would have at least one and usually several lightning rods and ground points.

Today the copper sheath on the iron is just a thick copper electroplate but prior to 1900 the copper sheath was a sheet of copper wrapped around an iron rod.

Often when the rod was pounded into the ground a rock or other obstruction would cause the copper sheath to bend.

Your picture resembles other lightning ground rods I've seen. All we have is a picture to go by. You see a child's sword, I see a ground rod. Without more information all we have is what we see.

 

[hollARDog]

Ida yanked it out by now🤘

 

[hollARDog]

I was thinking souvenir sword🤘

 

[Hbot37]

Looking at the opening and the lengthwise seam of the "sheath" (?) in photo #3 of post #19. That is an iron/steel "sheath" and not a leather sheath with raised, stitched seam? Does it look like the cross section of the "blade" might be triangular?

You are correct, it is an iron or steel scabbard. I am not sure about the shape of the blade yet. I will have a better idea when I pull it out of the electrolysis tank tonight and can post some pics of it looking a bit cleaner.

 

[Hbot37]

Got it out of the electrolysis tank and took some pics with most of the rust off. I still can’t pull it out so if anyone has any ideas then let me know. There’s a hole in the tip, which is the only new development. Nothing on the tang. I’m gonna stick with “child’s play sword” unless anyone has a better idea.

 

[callmez]

Got it out of the electrolysis tank and took some pics with most of the rust off. I still can’t pull it out so if anyone has any ideas then let me know. There’s a hole in the tip, which is the only new development. Nothing on the tang. I’m gonna stick with “child’s play sword” unless anyone has a better idea.

The hole at the tip is interesting. My sense is that the correct identification has not yet been suggested.

 

[Hbot37]

Looks like a bayonet to me. Perhaps you should put it through an electrolysis bath?

Yeah i think thats what I will do.

Might be some info on the blade if you can get it out of the scabbard

Hopefully I can get it loosened enough to get it out of there. It's pretty rusty so we'll see.

 

[villagenut]

A picture of it lying flat, not in your hand would be better