Some Notes Re: Construction of the Money Pit

[TORRERO]

Is it me, or is questioning how you keep oxygen in the tunnel while burning charcoal a legitimate question ?? burning shit 40 feet deep all that smoke rises but it's also eating up the oxygen in the shaft.. how could someone breath while burning shit at 40 feet ?
And there is no way to tunnel that UP and install those platforms as you go, they could only have done that by tunneling DOWN to the bottom, lowering whatever it is they did, to the bottom, then fill it in with dirt and build a platform every 10 feet or so coming back up.
I don't believe there is anything down there... if someone put something down there, then they never intended to return for it...
Consider the time frame and dates of when this was supposed to have been made ? and all they had was crude iron tools to dig that shaft and put those logs in, every 10 feet ? and they planned on coming back... ha ha ha I call BS..
It's possible that this was originally supposed to be a well, that was what the first lad thought.. when he found a rope with pulley .....
Someone decided that the old well would be a wonderful FU hiding place so dumped their stuff down the well, lowered themselves down and built those platforms coming back up... Mystery solved..

Something else I thought about, when filling that shaft back up, where did all that dirt come from ? And you can say ... well they dug it and used the dirt that came out to fill it back up, but maybe it was a freshwater well that was already there, and they just used it for their own purposes.. THEN they would have to find TONS of fill dirt to put back in that hole after finishing, and think of this... your at the bottom, you drop your (CHESTS OF GOLD AND SILVER) then you fill and lower thousands of buckets of dirt to cover them at the bottom, then you build a platform of logs, and then cover that with dirt, to another 10 feet, then build another platform, and cover it up to another 10 feet, then do this 9 more times...
Someone was batshit crazy... In my honest opinion.. 🤣 🤣

 

[n2mini]

Yes, sounds crazy but people back then weren't afraid of hard labor. Heck everything was hard back then compared to now seems like. Heck on a windy day just rowing over to the mainland from OI would have been a good chore to do. Also they built the Pyramid's 4000 years ago some how.. Talk about hard labor, regardless if it was forced or not they did it...

 

[TORRERO]

Also they built the Pyramid's 4000 years ago some how

🤣 Somehow is right ...

 

[GravelTeeth]

Also a thought... does whale or seal oil burn differently than other types of fatty oils ? because I'm thinking that these types of oils might be readily available to seamen or seafarers, but not to the general mining communities.. and would have to be brought in at great cost...

Apparently it was a standard fuel for lighting at the end of the 1700s, tended to burn "cleaner" than available alternatives, and reached its peak in the 1860s [wiki]. There may still have been non-trivial costs to bring that or any goods to remoter parts of the industrializing world, though.

--GT

 

[Armchair detective]

Now my favorite theory is that this whole island was/is a flooded out "gold" mining operation.

It started with the sighting of the gold stuff on the shore of OI. While scooping up the stuff it was discovered that it's not just a wash up, but the edge of aa.actual sheet of the ore.

Now comes the decision to make this a working mine. A shaft is dug down the center.of the island with the idea of digging side tunnels to contact, then follow and dig out the veins.

This is a good strategy when working in rock, an expectation that seemed likely at the time.

(An aside - a leak from rock is no reason to panic - it's a constant flow. You just have to bail x gallons per hour and continue mining.)

What happened? A side tunnel hit water. Being glacial till, a trickle becomes a stream.

There is some mining experience evident in the actions next taken, i.e. attempts to PLUG the flow. Dirt, clay, logs were used, but level by level ground was lost. Finally, the shaft was filled all the way to the top.as a concealment since it was still believed.that there was actually gold there.

Whoever never returned after finding out the goldstuff was actually worthless.

There are other places on the island that may have been other attempts/shafts. If the U shaped structure was such, the carbon dating could point to when and maybe who.

I know you all have been itching for another theory to tear into - have at it.

Why yes, my other leg DOES have bells on it - why do you ask?

 

[Armchair detective]

Reading the book - it's a slow slog.

Some things check/are interesting.
1. When working at 100 ft you have bad air and headaches.
2. Slough is defined as a "drainage tunnel".
3. 100 feet is a target depth (more or less) for a first shaft, then you dig side tunnels.
4. Ladders are parallel to shaft walls.

Things that don't check
1. Shaft mouth is to be 2 fathoms (10 feet roman measure) by 2/3 fathoms.
2. When digging in soft soil you MUST have cribbing.

Tentatively this still looks like an exploratory shaft that got wiped out early, but doesn't explain (yet) what the Truro co encountered with their augers between 98 and 106 ft.

Still digging into it (heh) - stay tuned.

 

[Armchair detective]

Yeah! - keep dumping facts on this thread.
We can rummage through the pile and see what we can make of it.

Now a puzzle for you.

The Truro co angered through a "room", ceiling 98 ft. It went through 4" oak, 22" loose metal, 8" oak, 22" loose metal, 4" oak, then 6" spruce? presumably the floor.

Tried to think of what kind of container this is.

 

[Armchair detective]

Also note that a tunnel in a working mine is 6ft high by 3 1/2 ft wide so "miners can pass each other".

 

[chalkoutline]

Yeah! - keep dumping facts on this thread.
We can rummage through the pile and see what we can make of it.

Now a puzzle for you.

The Truro co angered through a "room", ceiling 98 ft. It went through 4" oak, 22" loose metal, 8" oak, 22" loose metal, 4" oak, then 6" spruce? presumably the floor.

Tried to think of what kind of container this is.

I have a few questions
1. Were they operating the auger from the surface hitting the the ceiling at 98ft belowsurface?
2. How did they know it was a ceiling and floor and not just two more log platforms 10ft apart?
3. Is there another explanation for the loose metal?
Such as filled in mine activity where something metal was left behind?
If they drilled from ceiling to floor of a treasure vault, wouldn't the augers brought up gold or silver metal rather than a utilitarian piece of metal?

 

[GravelTeeth]

The Truro co angered through a "room", ceiling 98 ft. It went through 4" oak, 22" loose metal, 8" oak, 22" loose metal, 4" oak, then 6" spruce? presumably the floor.

Tried to think of what kind of container this is.

What I have wondered, could this "room" have also been sealed on some or all sides with the rudimentary cement that later syndicates found deeper? After all, if it looks like mottled stone to the untrained eye, would fragments of such cement have garnered any notice amongst the Truro folks, or mightn't they have just tossed it aside? Perhaps the Chappell "vault" with its cement cladding was in fact the Truro 98' room that had collapsed further down, possibly onto its side. If the crude cement has waterproofing qualities, it may have been designed to withstand the flooding and keep the contents dry.

--GT

 

[GravelTeeth]

I have a few questions
1. Were they operating the auger from the surface hitting the the ceiling at 98ft belowsurface?

In the literature I've seen references to both "pod auger" and "pot auger", but Google's A.I. tells me that "pod" is by far the more prevalent usage. There may not be such a thing as a "pot" auger. Anyway, apparently the pod auger has grooves which retain the material that is drilled through, but the picture I'm getting is that they have to keep retrieving the bit end of the auger in order to examine those samples. An encased borehole helps preserve that material from contamination on the way back up, but I think they didn't always have casings back in the old days.

I've tried to find a good thorough reference on the augers that would have been contemporary with those early syndicates without success. I'm finding mere dribs and drabs, although my searches are rather cursory so far. Strangely, I managed to get the most useful data from a clip-art site, which had quoted an older out-of-copyright version of the Encyclopedia Brittanica: "Earth augers comprise spiral and pod augers. The ordinary spiral auger resembles the wood auger commonly used by carpenters. It is attached to the rod or stem by a socket joint, successive sections of rod being added as the hole is deepened. The auger is rotated by means of horizontal levers, clamped to the rod ... ." [alamy] A strange illustration of what looks like a medieval torture device is the clip-art in question. I'm wondering if maybe the contraption is somehow supposed to attach to the working end and help keep the groove samples from falling back into the hole.

Most of the images I'm finding show the horizontal handles meant to be hand twisted as the auger goes into the ground. Assuming the pod auger had the same mechanism for adding sections of length as the hole deepened, it sounds like it would have been a big production to drill from surface through empty shaft (what would they stand on?) if they could just do so with minimal length from whatever depth they'd reached, with less chance of losing the samples on the way up.

We should get Carmen Legge on the case. I bet he could do one hell of a show-and-tell video on pod augers.

See also: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/late-18th-early-19th-century-pod-104617151

--GT

 

[Armchair detective]

I have a few questions
1. Were they operating the auger from the surface hitting the the ceiling at 98ft belowsurface?
2. How did they know it was a ceiling and floor and not just two more log platforms 10ft apart?
3. Is there another explanation for the loose metal?
Such as filled in mine activity where something metal was left behind?
If they drilled from ceiling to floor of a treasure vault, wouldn't the augers brought up gold or silver metal rather than a utilitarian piece of metal?

Some answers from what I recollect.
1. It was 30 ft down to sea level, and another 98 ft to the top of "the room".
2. The floor and ceiling were 6 ft apart. With what looks like 2 stacked containers, I guess it was me that called it a room.
3. Got me. The book says dirt and ore were put into separate buckets, carried to the windlass, and drawn outside. Possibly if more dirt than ore was found, you put the ore in a separate container awaiting a full load to pull up top??
4. Hmm. It was said that the auger "pushed aside" all samples of whatever was in the containers. Now I wonder if that was possible.

The 4" of oak at the bottom and top of the containers has been bugging me.
Modern containers such as 15.5 gallon wooden wine or beer keg now use 1 - 1 1/2 " thickness.
4" is really heavy duty.
It occurs to me that if you arrive on an island prepared to mine, it would be stupid to fill your cargo hold with empty containers, especially when you need the space for stuff to support your mining activity.
How about we build the containers on the island? Knock over an oak, saw off a 4" slab.
With the saw we could cut pieces any size we want and build boxes.

 

[GravelTeeth]

The 4" of oak at the bottom and top of the containers has been bugging me.

One of the theories proffered by Fred Nolan was that a ship was either accidentally or deliberately run aground in the swamp, then scuttled/rolled and maybe dismantled. If they did take apart a ship, they'd have a ship's worth of construction materials at hand. According to Perplexity, 4" thick boards were a common dimension in ships of the speculated depositor era:

"Historical records confirm that timber with a thickness of four inches was indeed used in ship construction during the 17th and 18th centuries. For example:

• An 18th-century shipbuilder's letter from Philadelphia specifically references the procurement of "4 thousand feet of four inch planks," indicating that planks of this thickness were standard material for certain parts of ship construction.
• Archaeological analysis of ship remains from the period also revealed "an average thickness of 100mm (4 inches)" for some planking, further supporting the use of four-inch-thick timber in shipbuilding.
• A detailed study of English wooden ships notes that "an oak plank ten inches broad and four inches thick" was used to be fayed (joined) to the deck at the ends of each bulkhead, showing that four-inch-thick planks were employed in structural elements such as deck reinforcement and bulkhead attachment."

refs:
[PDF] THE STRUCTURES OF ENGLISH WOODEN SHIPS ;
[PDF] shipbuilding and timber management in the royal dockyards 1750 ;
To Commit Ourselves to Our Own Ingenuity: Joshua Humphreys - Early Philadelphia Shipbuilding .

How about we build the containers on the island? Knock over an oak, saw off a 4" slab.
With the saw we could cut pieces any size we want and build boxes.

Yeah, if not salvaged wood they could have felled some red oak from the island and made new boards. Maybe they built a whole new ship (seems unlikely) and used some of the extra boards for the deposit(?) chamber.

I also asked Perplexity how common it was to use spruce, the other component that Truro claimed, and the answer is not common at all, with the possible exception of smaller scale spars and such. Oak was much more prevalent in shipbuilding, with pine preferred for masts and other rigging.

[As always, take A.I. answers with an appropriate grain of salt.]

--GT

 

[Armchair detective]

Should probably note that lunemberg had a fine boatyard for building fishing boats - started in the mid-late 1700's. 4"sounds like keel size.

 

[releventchair]

One of the theories proffered by Fred Nolan was that a ship was either accidentally or deliberately run aground in the swamp, then scuttled/rolled and maybe dismantled. If they did take apart a ship, they'd have a ship's worth of construction materials at hand. According to Perplexity, 4" thick boards were a common dimension in ships of the speculated depositor era:

"Historical records confirm that timber with a thickness of four inches was indeed used in ship construction during the 17th and 18th centuries. For example:

• An 18th-century shipbuilder's letter from Philadelphia specifically references the procurement of "4 thousand feet of four inch planks," indicating that planks of this thickness were standard material for certain parts of ship construction.
• Archaeological analysis of ship remains from the period also revealed "an average thickness of 100mm (4 inches)" for some planking, further supporting the use of four-inch-thick timber in shipbuilding.
• A detailed study of English wooden ships notes that "an oak plank ten inches broad and four inches thick" was used to be fayed (joined) to the deck at the ends of each bulkhead, showing that four-inch-thick planks were employed in structural elements such as deck reinforcement and bulkhead attachment."

refs:
[PDF] THE STRUCTURES OF ENGLISH WOODEN SHIPS ;
[PDF] shipbuilding and timber management in the royal dockyards 1750 ;
To Commit Ourselves to Our Own Ingenuity: Joshua Humphreys - Early Philadelphia Shipbuilding .


Yeah, if not salvaged wood they could have felled some red oak from the island and made new boards. Maybe they built a whole new ship (seems unlikely) and used some of the extra boards for the deposit(?) chamber.

I also asked Perplexity how common it was to use spruce, the other component that Truro claimed, and the answer is not common at all, with the possible exception of smaller scale spars and such. Oak was much more prevalent in shipbuilding, with pine preferred for masts and other rigging.

[As always, take A.I. answers with an appropriate grain of salt.]

--GT

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www.thesparshop.org

 

[releventchair]

Yeah! - keep dumping facts on this thread.
We can rummage through the pile and see what we can make of it.

Now a puzzle for you.

The Truro co angered through a "room", ceiling 98 ft. It went through 4" oak, 22" loose metal, 8" oak, 22" loose metal, 4" oak, then 6" spruce? presumably the floor.

Tried to think of what kind of container this is.

How are you assigning credibility to Truro claims?

Why travel to Oak Island to dig below the water level (average 50 feet)?
If you want to bury something below the water level so no one else can mess with it save the journey and expense and do it in a more pleasant spot. After all recovery is to follow ;right?
Need privacy? Guard the perimeter and dig at night. Trust me , blisters can afford to rest during the day.

Why is drilling even continued when drilling proves nothing?
All it does (despite the cost mysteriously)is give rise to new stories. And yes without confirmed beyond the island &Co.'s evidence they remain stories only.

Why isn't there a small dry pond where drilling allegedly indicated anything of value? That is an important question to ask. And it tells you there is something afoot besides an alleged treasure.

Open or boxed caisson. Cofferdam. I don't care.
Neither exists.
Oh if you drink enough and get a sponsor or three you can make up evidence.
But prove anything is real about a treasure buried on Oak Island before worrying about how a hole was dug.
So why Oak Island? Given the alleged year what were the hazards of such treasure being transported unnoticed across how much water by whom? And how many shovels?

How Underwater Construction Works: 5 Amazing Structures | BigRentz

Building underwater is a monumental undertaking, but some incredible buildings and infrastructure exist due to underwater construction techniques.

www.bigrentz.com

 

[Armchair detective]

Regarding the concrete, I remember that someone had this stuff analyzed and was of the opinion that it was a natural silicate? layer.

In reading the book, he talks about buttressing a rock roof every ten feet with beams and supports.

As a speculation let's say we drive a tunnel UNDER this layer - pull the dirt out, we have an apparent rock ceiling. This could explain how you could drill and hit a sample of "concrete" over wood ( and a remarkable coincidence it was).

The Truro report has no concrete in their excavation, so if there really is a "chapel vault" it is away from the MP.

 

[chalkoutline]

Why couldn't the answer to the MP include multiple theories. ..
1. Someone started digging a well then discovered blue clay.
2. They mined the blue clay and found a salt deposit
3. They mined the salt and compromised the limestone.
4. They finished mining operations and filled the pit leaving log platforms and various artifacts behind and later interpreted as a vault.
5. The limestone fails creating a sinkhole that causes an indentation on the surface because the filled till above acts as a plug.
6. Treasure hunters dig down until enough of the plug is removed causing the pit to flood with sea water via the sinkhole opening.

 

[TORRERO]

Yeah! - keep dumping facts on this thread.
We can rummage through the pile and see what we can make of it.

Now a puzzle for you.

The Truro co angered through a "room", ceiling 98 ft. It went through 4" oak, 22" loose metal, 8" oak, 22" loose metal, 4" oak, then 6" spruce? presumably the floor.

Tried to think of what kind of container this is.

Any idea why someone would build a “room” 100 feet down on an island made of sand and coral? I’m guessing this is a fairy tale… didn’t/never happened

 

[Armchair detective]

Been reading the book. Here's more info, but not sure how it fits.

Shaft openings are roughly rectangular. For 100 feet vertical it is ALL OPEN to allow extraction of ore by windlass. To protect miners from falling rocks, at the bottom of the shaft a ROOF of "sticks" is built (and presumably a floor lower than that).

At one end of the shaft there is a structure with cribbing akin to ironwork of high rise buildings under construction. Attached to the cribbing is a vertical ladder for miners to enter and exit the workings. ALSO ATTACHED TO THE CRIBBING ARE LEVELS WHERE MINERS CAN GET OFF THE LADDER TO REST OR LET OTHER MINERS PASS UP OR DOWN.

I can see why Truro might have assumed that Onslow built this, but how did Onslow miss it entirely?