State owned property for road construction.

[Jeremy S]

The state of Indiana recently bought up a lot of land in my area for the expansion of a road. There were several old houses on this land that are either being moved or torn down. Some of them date back to the late 1800s and would be a prime place to detect before all of that history is bulldozed under for good.

I know for sure that you can't detect on DNR controlled properties. When I look up the property info on my GIS program, it just lists the owner as "State of Indiana". I'm not about to just detect this property without getting permission (probably impossible to do if I ask) or without knowing the laws or which laws this land falls under. I really don't feel like getting arrested for trespassing or theft!

I'd hate to start making calls and draw too much attention, then I would get a "no" answer for sure. Since the property is owned by the state, would it fall under DNR jurisdiction? There may be a general contractor in control since they are started demolition work, should I ask them?

I have a friend who owns neighboring property, I could fly in under the radar for a quick hunt some day during off hours... but I'm also just considering this land a lost cause due to the risk. Ideas?

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

Jeremy, you say: "I really don't feel like getting arrested for trespassing ...."

"Trespassing" ? On public property? (that I assume is not fenced or posted?) How does one trespass on public property that isn't closed to public access? I mean, if that's road right-of-way, then ...... how do all those people zip down the road in their cars? How does someone walk alongside that road (which, afterall, one of the intents of having road right-of-ways extent further out than the edge of the pavement, to begin with).

I own a street sweeper company that does our primary work in road construction (asphalt/paving, etc...). So I'm a little familiar with right-of-ways of roads. Yes, when it comes to country roads, freeways that lace through the desert or forests, etc... the edge of the road is not necessarily the edge of the public's land. Because there is the right-of-way that extends much further out. I mean, figure that if someone needs to pull over to the edge of the road (like if you got a flat, etc...) there has to be space to pull over. And utility poles are usually strung along the county and state roads, and so forth. Thus that right-of-way can extend ...... sometimes ..... quite a ways distant. And thus if a structure needs to be bought out by eminent domain to expand a road or something, there could be a situation where it had actually only encroached by a few feet. But obviously, you can't buy "just a few feet" of someone's house or barn, so perhaps an easier way is to just buy out that owner entirely. Thus the distances of right-of-ways can evolve to odd distances, depending on where and when etc.....

There are different forms of state land as you've already gathered. So you're right, don't make the mistake that just because you see one form of state land that has something specific about detecting, that ....... therefore .... all state land has that same specific. An example would be the commonly referenced state-by-state listing that the FMDAC has on their website. Some people have mistakingly assumed that this means "all state land in those states". But this is not the case. That is only for those state's state PARKS land. Not all state land is state "park" land, as you surmise. A road right-of-way is not state (or city, or county, etc...) "park" land. Thus it would not be under those rules.

Personally, I think you are worrying way-too-much. I've seen a lot of emminent domain projects (where they buy out more land to expand a school, or down-town revitilization project, or roads, etc...) and we just "go". I mean, sure, you're welcome to go ask "can I?" and knock yourself out if you want. But as you surmise, you're simply not going to get some desk-bound bureaucrat to say "yes" (even though, quite frankly, he probably doesn't care less, nor would ever have been out there to have even cared, to begin with). Same with the construction contractor: I work with those types all the time, and ... they too probably simply don't want to be bothered. I mean, that's not to say they care less what happens after they leave the place at 5pm, but ...... if they'd told you "yes", and then you went out and made a nuisance of yourself, they can envision you saying "so & so told me I could". Thus guess what their easy answer is going to be?

So unless you have a specific code of law covering "all state land", that disallows detecting, or unless there's a fence around it (and you're skittish of fences), then ...... I'd just hit it. But that's just me. Demolition site hunting can be fun for certain spots. But no, you're not going to find signs that say "metal detecting welcome here!" at any of them.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Didn't your dad loose his boyscout ring there when he was a kid? If I was you, I'd go look for it on that public property.

 

[Jeremy S]

Thanks for the input Tom. I can't find any specific laws saying I can't detect. No fences or signs anywhere as well. I'll scope the place out and see what I can find before the heavy equipment moves in to flatten the place out.

You know... I do recall dad losing a ring by that one house...

 

[Keppy]

I guess i think a little different than most.............. I would just go in and detect ..And never give it a second thought .........

 

[dholland02]

I guess i think a little different than most.............. I would just go in and detect ..And never give it a second thought .........

Couldn't agree with u more keppy

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

Couldn't agree with u more keppy

ditto. If you ask enough people if you can pick your own nose, eventually you'll find someone to tell you "no".

 

[TerryC]

I agree with Tom.... but I'm not as "verbose"! (Hey Tom!) The best way (my opinion) is to REASERCH the jurisdiction's statutes to check on detecting law. Copy And Keep a set in your digging kit. No law.... no worry. There are not too many badges that will hastle someone who obviously has done his homework. The intimidation factor works both ways! The state and DNR (feds) are different entities. Good luck! TTC

 

[BosnMate]

I guess i think a little different than most.............. I would just go in and detect ..And never give it a second thought .........

Me to.

 

[jeff of pa]

Been there

I approached the temporary security shack, on a project here in PA once.
and asked.

the answer was "I cannot give you permission because of liability, plus a few of the home owners
are still upset at loosing their properties."

"However"

"If I drive by while making my rounds & see you in the yards, I'm not going to stop"

not saying this will happen there. Every watchmen thinks for himself.

I can tell you odds are The state will just say No in order to protect themselves,
and leave it at that.

If any of the properties was just clipped for the road, ask the former owner
who lives just off the property now.

Example

there is another project started in PA



The state is Buying part of peoples properties to Widen the Highway.

although a High % here are High traffic areas with 80 years of Litter bugs

and 60 years of newer homes & Businesses loosing footage it won't be productive,

But odds are nobody will stop other then the former owner, if they are disgruntled or
afraid of you as a stranger.

Just saying take it any way you want

 

[pjduff]

I have done just that exact thing a couple times this year. The state of Indiana is putting in a highway bypass around North Vernon and my mothers home is just a couple miles away from some of the homes being lost to the construction. I usually wait till the evening when I'm off work and the workers have gone, park at my mothers home and walk down the road to get there. Not had a problem or been stopped yet. I figure where these homes were are gonna be lost under the pavement forever, so I might as well get out there and save some of the history while I can!!

 

[jeff of pa]

Just do them & us a Favor,
If you find something so Historical it may shut down the Project,
Don't advertise it locally .

their whole "No skin off my Nose" attitude may change real quick.


Just consider it an opportunity to Find some cool relics .
at least till the project is done

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Get caught on State Park (unless it is in part of a state park that is got endangered plants,etc) you more then likely can play it off and just be asked to leave. Worse case $250.00-$500.00 fine and you lose your MDer. Get caught on National Park you may see jail or prison time.

 

[jeff of pa]

Get caught on State Park (unless it is in part of a state park that is got endangered plants,etc) you more then likely can play it off and just be asked to leave. Worse case $250.00-$500.00 fine and you lose your MDer. Get caught on National Park you may see jail or prison time.

his original post doesn't say it's State or national Park

Just part of the States property which probably means road Project land.
Correct ?

here they just take it off the tax rolls & add it to the highway land,
as they pay for it.



so in reality it's like walking along a highway detecting.
unless someone thinks chasing you is saving your life what would be the excuse

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Ahh okay! thought it was some sort of state park!

City owned is about the same really. (Unless you live in a very historical town like Fredericksburg,Virginia. Any MDing on City owned property in FBurg is $500 fine, trespassing, and lost of MDer and up to 30 days in jail) But I doubt your town is like Fredericksburg. City property if you get caught there just going too tell you to leave. A hard-beat cop may get you for trespassing worse comes to worse. But it is not like the crime of the century. I wouldn't stress it too much best time too hunt it is in the evening!

 

[Jeremy S]

The state purchased these homes late last year for expanding or moving a highway. The houses are still standing, but they have already began doing site work with heavy equipment. I drove past it some today and it looked like the sod had been chewed up by equipment or removed entirely. I may swing by tomorrow late and see what I find.

 

[Jeremy S]

State Parks are off limits per the D.R.. Federal property is an obvious no no, same with State Historical sites. I always do my homework

 

[Keppy]

Get caught on State Park (unless it is in part of a state park that is got endangered plants,etc) you more then likely can play it off and just be asked to leave. Worse case $250.00-$500.00 fine and you lose your MDer. Get caught on National Park you may see jail or prison time.

I have hunted state parks here for a long time and never had any one say a thing to me........... The only time some one said something to me was in a county park one time a ranger told me indeed a permit to hunt the county parks and they were free.....

 

[Keppy]

State Parks are off limits per the D.R.. Federal property is an obvious no no, same with State Historical sites. I always do my homework

.. Just go to it... Do to much homework and you will be like most to scared to hunt any place...........

 

[Keppy]

I agree with Tom.... but I'm not as "verbose"! (Hey Tom!) The best way (my opinion) is to REASERCH the jurisdiction's statutes to check on detecting law. Copy And Keep a set in your digging kit. No law.... no worry. There are not too many badges that will hastle someone who obviously has done his homework. The intimidation factor works both ways! The state and DNR (feds) are different entities. Good luck! TTC

... Terry, Terry , I know you as a friend But You have to much cop in you yet ... There statutes mean nothing to me.............