Steam locomotive boiler?

trainmuseum · Apr 28, 2012

I need help identifying what I have. I was told about a "sunken train car" and after viewing and considering all factors, made arrangements to have it excavated. I am certain that this artifact was located on an abandonded railroad bed and that the area is part of an extinct plantation in the Mississippi Delta. Any help anyone could give me would be greatly appreciated!

jewelerguy · Apr 28, 2012

I suppose it could be. I think I would sell it for scrap iron

NOLA_Ken · Apr 28, 2012

It certainly looks like it could be part of a steam engine, but from the size of it I would think more along the lines of early farm tractor rather than a locomotive.

cfdfire · Apr 28, 2012

You could try to ask at this site..good luck

The New England Wireless and Steam Museum

KYBourbon · Apr 28, 2012

trainmuseum said:
I need help identifying what I have. I was told about a "sunken train car" and after viewing and considering all factors, made arrangements to have it excavated. I am certain that this artifact was located on an abandonded railroad bed and that the area is part of an extinct plantation in the Mississippi Delta. Any help anyone could give me would be greatly appreciated!

Hello and welcome! While I certainly don't claim to be an expert in any way, shape or form, I'm say you have either what appears to be the top third of a stationary boiler (it's design is similar to the Galloway-type boiler below), or given the smaller size it's more likely a steam tractor boiler (the cutaway picture) section. Your section has the steam dome, but since there's no firebox or smokebox attached it might make a better ID difficult.

Again, I'm no expert, but I've been in, around, over and under a few locomotive boilers doing volunteer work years ago at a local railroad museum and it looks too small to be a locomotive boiler to me.

At any rate, it's definitely a cool piece of history!

ncsilverspider · Apr 28, 2012

Not sure. Could it possibly be a section of boiler from a larger steam locomotive, like a mikado? :dontknow:

Definently a neat find! Do you collect rr items? Hope you find some good stuff! WELCOME TO T-NET!!!! :wav:

trainmuseum · May 1, 2012

Thank you all for your responses. RE the size of the item--what is difficult to see from these photos is that one end of it is cut away. It is almost impossible to tell how long it really once was. I do see the similarity between what I have and what a steam tractor boiler would look like, but I think this piece would be too big. If its original size was what it is, perhaps not, but there is a missing part or parts that would add to the length. I am not sure, but I am still thinking it could have to do with a locomotive. It was located by what is obviously an abandoned railroad bed and there are railroad artifacts all over the area. I think in more recent times, which could have even been 50 years ago, someone cut it up and probably used the bottom part or parts for a trough. Just guessing here. Farmer friends do not think it is has to do with a tractor. Without identifying marks, I may not ever be able to tell. Thank you for your help!

NOLA_Ken · May 1, 2012

You say you're in the Miss. Delta, so it's entirely possible that it could be part of an old narrow gauge loco from one of the many logging companies that used to operate here. If you could either post the location or pm it to me I might be able to help you with that. Nothing too precise if you don't want, but the parish name would even help to look for logging records in the area.

If it were a logger, my first thought would be a Shay, but it's really hard to guess without the smoke and fire boxes, and knowing the dimensions.

Have you tried contacting the Louisiana Steam Train Association?

ncsilverspider · May 1, 2012

trainmuseum said:
Thank you all for your responses. RE the size of the item--what is difficult to see from these photos is that one end of it is cut away. It is almost impossible to tell how long it really once was. I do see the similarity between what I have and what a steam tractor boiler would look like, but I think this piece would be too big. If its original size was what it is, perhaps not, but there is a missing part or parts that would add to the length. I am not sure, but I am still thinking it could have to do with a locomotive. It was located by what is obviously an abandoned railroad bed and there are railroad artifacts all over the area. I think in more recent times, which could have even been 50 years ago, someone cut it up and probably used the bottom part or parts for a trough. Just guessing here. Farmer friends do not think it is has to do with a tractor. Without identifying marks, I may not ever be able to tell. Thank you for your help!

You say there are railroad artifacts all over there. What kind?

ncsilverspider · May 1, 2012

NOLA_Ken said:
You say you're in the Miss. Delta, so it's entirely possible that it could be part of an old narrow gauge loco from one of the many logging companies that used to operate here. If you could either post the location or pm it to me I might be able to help you with that. Nothing too precise if you don't want, but the parish name would even help to look for logging records in the area.

If it were a logger, my first thought would be a Shay, but it's really hard to guess without the smoke and fire boxes, and knowing the dimensions.

Have you tried contacting the Louisiana Steam Train Association?

Never thought of a narrow-gauger. Good idea. Looks like it could be. Still an awesome find!

trainmuseum · May 2, 2012

Hey, folks--I really appreciate all the comments! I am the director of Cleveland, Mississippi's Railroad Heritage Museum, so yes, I collect rr artifacts--but for the museum, not for me personally. You can visit our city's website: cityofclevelandms.com and click on the museum link. Someone told me about a "sunken train car" located in western Bolivar County, south of Beulah, MS. This is the county Cleveland is located in and being on the western side of the county means it is very close to the Mississippi River. Actually, the piece was located close to the base of the levee at the River. Bolivar County, along with the rest of the Mississippi Delta region, was covered in thick forests when the railroads were first built in the late 1880's. There were sawmills, logging spurs, dummy lines, etc. all over the county. This piece was located near the main north-south line on the western side of Bolivar County but I have not found a map showing a spur track ever having been in this spot. Regardless, there clearly was one. The location is overgrown with trees and the raised, elongated rail bed is still evident. When we pulled up this piece we also pulled up a long piece of narrow gauge rail. (there is more still there) There are spikes, plates, other pieces and parts of what could possibly have been on a locomotive, rotted crosstie pieces, etc. The location of this (whatever it is) is right at or included in the land that was once a plantation. It is also just south of where the levee broke in 1912. Anything is possible, right? So is it possible raging river flood waters pushed all of these artifacts into this spot? Yes, but....there is still the evidence of the actual railroad bed, the spikes through rail plates, and the track laid down, end to end to end. Actually, the rail bed(s) appear to form something of a wye. I have been studying on the dimensions of the piece and the dome is so much larger than any dome I have seen on a tractor. Also, on the underside of it, there is a scalloped edge technique used to cut the opening under the dome. That same scalloped edge cutting pattern is seen close to what appears to be baffling on the end where the piece seems to be ragged and cut off. I (think) I have posted three more pictures. The first two are before the "big dig." One shows the end that is cut off, (a small tree grew through the opened area) and one shows the opposite end, and one shows a close up of the underside of the dome. I read somewhere that the scalloped edge cut is a feature that can distinguish one type of locomotive boiler from another. (you don't think I bookmarked that, do you? Kicking myself...)

ncsilverspider · May 2, 2012

So, is it from a locomotive?

trainmuseum · May 2, 2012

I don't know for sure. I see my other pictures did not upload in the previous post, so I will try again.

NOLA_Ken · May 4, 2012

I found a reference to the Bolivar Land & Timber Co. having a railroad which could be where your relics are coming from. That may be a good place to start your search. One thing I've learned about logging rails is they often don't appear on maps because a lot of them were never intended to be permanent. The rails were laid to a particular area, and then when that place was logged out, they'd pull up the whole thing and move it to the next spot.

Here's a link to a site with pictures of the tracks and levee in that area during the flood. http://msgw.org/bolivar/1927flood_files/Beulah6.jpg

trainmuseum · May 23, 2012

NOLA_Ken, Thank you for your responses and thank you especially for the last one. That link to that photo led me to a real "duh!" moment, meaning I should have put 2 and 2 together sooner but did not. Thanks to your post and that link, I realized that the levee broke in 1912 very, very close to where the piece was found. Although the piece could have been brought to that spot and I may never know, I was determined to prove or disprove that I found it on a railroad bed. Because of further research, beginning with the link you posted, I now know that the levee repairs after the flood required several rails (and railbeds) to be built through that spot, all around that area and beyond. So, it is fairly safe to conclude that I really was standing on old rail bed and all that we had been finding and all that we have found since was most likely laid about this exact time of year 100 years ago.

The fact that the rails were laid to repair the levee and not for regular freight or passage meant they were not on regular maps. Add to that the fact that the same area flooded drastically in the historic flood of 1927, it is easier to understand why I could not find a reference to the rails on any map or deed. The rail was abandoned after 1927. The levee broke that year a little further south of this location. As a side note, in 2011, the River rose to even greater heights than '27, but thankfully, this "new" levee (built after 1927) held very well! I do think that my piece was submerged in at least one of the floods as I have been able to extract little "sea" shells out of its nooks and crannies. I also have found a diagram of a Shay locomotive that fits my piece to a T. Took my 84 year old dad out to see it and he knew instantly what it was. It is actually only the top 1/3 of the boiler drum off a steam locomotive. The torn end would be where the stack was and is now gone. The firebox is missing, too. I can see where the sand dome was mounted and where the bell would have been attached. It is possible that these pieces or some others are still in that overgrown area but that will require a trip AFTER a frost! Thank you again for your help!

NOLA_Ken · May 24, 2012

There are a lot of photos of the flood on that site, I don't know how I only linked to the one. Here's the link to the full list:

Index of /bolivar/1927flood_files

It's funny, I don't remember exactly what led me to think it could have been a Shay, but I'm pretty amazed that I might have been right. Good luck with finding more of it, and be sure to let us know when you do.

BuckleBoy · May 24, 2012

Keep in mind that some plantations had their own rail lines to transport cane, cotton, or other crops easily across the properties. If you look in the old late 1800s sugar cane quarterly issues, you'll see many references to rail down here.

-Buck

ncsilverspider · May 24, 2012

NOLA_Ken said:
There are a lot of photos of the flood on that site, I don't know how I only linked to the one. Here's the link to the full list:

Index of /bolivar/1927flood_files

It's funny, I don't remember exactly what led me to think it could have been a Shay, but I'm pretty amazed that I might have been right. Good luck with finding more of it, and be sure to let us know when you do.

Great research, NOLA_Ken! Now trainmuseum knows for a fact that he has an awesome piece of American Railroading history! Good luck on finding more! That's a wonderful artifact!
:thumbsup: