Stone foundation some state was Mission

[EarnieP]

Someone sent me this picture, but I can't remember who. If someone recognizes it, please give yourself credit.



Joe Ribaudo

Very nice picture, Joe.

The rings I saw were not built up this tall, perhaps a little larger in circumference (hard to tell size perspective here).

 

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[Azquester]

Was it anything like this Az. stone wall (not in Superstition) from Ron Quinn's book,

'Searching for Arizona's Buried Treasures';

(click here) The Great Stone Wall Mystery

There's one of those in the Superstition's someone posted a while back. It must be some sort of common occurance. I've been to the wall down here near Tubac Ron's talking about. Hell, I've been to almost everywhere Ron talks about in his book with the exception of Mexico. Like the wall in the Sup's it has no real purpose but goes for quite a distance over rough terrain. Only thing I can think of is the rocks were removed from a dry wash or creek bed for placer gold and used as a guide possibly for a path back to a campsite discarding the rocks as they returned too the camp or staging area. Or maybe a raised road bed for small hand pulled carts? Some of Arizona's first raised highways? I-1&2?

I always thought the Indian's used thatched huts with ocotillo, grass and mud. "U" shaped structures could've been used for hunting sort of like a blind. Or a wind / sun break during a siesta? If it was near where they planted a food source it may simply just be clearing the ground of rocks for planting seeds.

If it was red rocks I'd dare say it was an early brothel for those weary warriors on the way back with the pelt spoils they used for hoochie payments. That and a little fire water and you have the makings of an early red rock district! The rocks were used so you could only see the top of the dancers. They always paid through a hole in the wall. Sort of one of the first southwest desert maiden Peep shows.

We may never know the full extent of the wall usage. Until someone finds the remains of an Indian Pimp's pink fuzzy blanketed Horse named "Cadillac" like chrome spinner horse shoes and gold inlaid stirrups that say "Oh-ha-he-tan-pinko-whey-hey" (Tan's Jumping Pink Pimp Pony) we may never know! (Just Joking)

They were all early Barbecue's. The Indian's invented the Barbecue. The rocks blocked the wind for cooking.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Bill, AND JUST WHAT IS WRONG WITH MEXICO ya expert on brothels ??

 

[markmar]

Bill

You wrote : " There's one of those in the Superstition's someone posted a while back " .

I believe was the mysterious wall in the Music Mountain .

 

[sailaway]

I have seen plenty of stone circles in the wilderness, the ones I saw were most likely used as Tepee anchors. there are plenty of old photos that show these rock rings on the native's camp sites. It is hard to drive a spike into rock, hence the stones were placed around the edge. how ever the one above is square with opening towards the north, almost straight south of the known "Circle Stones".

I would like to find pictures of this site that are recent.
I am wanting to go to this site, anyone game? (its in the center of the Wilderness)
Looking through a local collection of Lost Dutchman maps I came across one that showed a square mine collar and a man climbing a ladder out of it.

or is this really it?, that is white hill in the foreground, with the Virgon marker just out of the left side of picture. Fish Creek is at base of the "Sombrero".

 

[Azquester]

I think the wall could be a "Soul Wall". A raised platform for Cremations in a line that leads to the happy hunting grounds. Indian Cremations could explain a lot of these semi round walls. They believed the Gods lived in the mountains and rained down "Thunder" when unhappy so it may have been a sacrificial site like in Peru where they sacrifice young girls and boys to apease the Mountain God of the Superstition's. The same God that has taken so many lives in there. A screen search of the area in the middle of the semi-circle might produce some human teeth and bone. Partial Cremations are said to have caused the spores we now know as Valley Fever.

Of course it may have been where they tortured the white man by Barbecue. Slowly roasting those pesty white men and women for trespassing on sacred grounds. Dancing around hooping while they screamed for mercy. They had no mercy for any of them. Including Spaniards and Mexicans. More investigation is warranted.

If was a defensive wall it may have been for old Jacob himself looking down his back trail waiting for anyone to get in range for his ambush. He was always worried about his back trail so he wondered all over the place attempting to lead anyone astray. I think a lot of trails back them were up high for protection from Indian attack and look outs. It's always better to have the advantage of height over being caught in a wash durin an attack you couldn't run or ride very fast in a clogged wash.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi Bill, a defensive wall ? I thought OF that also untIl I noticed that it was on a slope thus giving protection only on a frontal attack - from down slope. The Apache were not known for frontal attcks, they relied upon surprise attacks. they well knew the problems of attrition among their warriors.

Their favorie method of an attack was a volly of arrows or gunshots from ambush, then if there were any survivors o handle them accordingly, basicallythey were not frontal fighters. but ambushers.

 

[Azquester]

Bill, AND JUST WHAT IS WRONG WITH MEXICO ya expert on brothels ??

Nothing wrong with Mexico. It's just that back in Ron's day (1950's) it didn't matter if you rode across the border and came back. He did it all the time. He even found the one treasure down there but could never dig it.

I've never been to a Brothel. Never paid for anything like that. I've always gotten my nookie for free. Not to say years ago one of the freebees was working in one, I wouldn't know. Back then I didn't have the money for that sort of thing.

Heck, I'd never even heard of a strip club until I moved to Arizona. Went to my first one in Phoenix in 1979. That was also the first one I ever got thrown out of for not knowing the proper procedures associated with the placement of the dollar bill. Learning curve I guess! I wouldn't leave until I finished my pitcher of beer. By then the Strippers Biker boy friend had showed up and she told him I hadn't followed the dollar bill procedure correctly so she didn't except my donation. Instead of getting mad at me he laughed then told her never to turn down a donation!

I went to one of those clubs with my late Brother when he visited out here. I'd been working all day in 121 degree heat and wasn't in any shape for it. I passed out from heat exhaustion and when I woke up my brother had ordered a 90 year old stripper lap dance for me as a joke. Once I awoke and my eyes focused I thought we'd taken a trip to the Petrified Forest in the Grand Canyon!

That Canyon Sort of reminded me of that picture that Frank Posted a while back. I could see the gray forest but the river course was all dried up! No gold in that canyon. No digging allowed. To many cave in's and extremely hazardous conditions! I wanted to dig because I thought it was the lost doucheman! But the forest service closed that hazard. It had signs all over that said "Warning! Extremely old Bottomless Hoe (Pit)" I heeded that warning!

Ahh, Mexico. I love it!

 

[Azquester]

Hi Bill, a defensive wall ? I thought OF that also untIl I noticed that it was on a slope thus giving protection only on a frontal attack - from down slope. The Apache were not known for frontal attcks, they relied upon surprise attacks. they well knew the problems of attrition among their warriors.

Their favorie method of an attack was a volly of arrows or gunshots from ambush, then if there were any survivors o handle them accordingly, basicallythey were not frontal fighters. but ambushers.

A slope hey? Maybe as a holding device for a sluice box? A raised bedding area for sleeping? A platform for short people to get on that pesty large horse?
Remnants of an early style Smelter? I've seen those types of rock pile Smelters down here at the blue bird mine and it could be that. They did put those Smelters on the side slope of a mountain for the wind that would help with the charcoal heating without the need for a bellows. They were simple piles of rocks that started as a semi circle and went up as high as 15 feet in some cases.

 

[sailaway]

another Foundation site

I believe this is the site that Clay Worst claimed was the Lost Dutchman when he was describing the Canyon with the Spanish Cross across from the 3R corral.
This truly looks like the "Valley of Hearts" of Coronado. Does that make the cross at the entrance to this Canyon painted by the exploration to Cibola?

 

[sailaway]

You mean the same site some people have been arguing was not a mission!

I've been to that site not much left today. It was on someone's claim....Rick Gwinn I believe and a group of Thunters including Emory Taylor. That's where they claim the holy purple quartz was found. Same spot as the old Reavis Ranch. I could be off on this info going off old memories from way back.

Just so you know Emory Taylor salted those purple rocks. I personally know the person who drove him to the site with them in rusty coffee cans.

 

[BlackLine]

defensive wall? something like this?

 

[sailaway]

Blackline, are you trying to claim that picture is in the Superstitions? If so then where is it?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Bill, sou posted -- It's just that back in Ron's day (1950's),

heck that was only yesterday, As for your sordid experiences sheehs;

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Blackline, from what I sould see on a blow up, I agree with you, the arc aears to be a defensie wall , guarding a consideral sized setlement on a point of land.. Several buildings.

 

[sailaway]

Clay's site also fits in very well with the discovery of the Stone Maps. From his site coming down the canyons without ever leaving the wash area would put you at the west end of Black Point where the maps were found. This would work out right if under attack as they would be attempting to get back out to the valley floor and Black Point being as far as they made it. I am not stating that it is the end of the trail, only that the site fits the requirements of possibilities. Also the Silver ore is cut or naturally in the C's that the Molina Documents describe. There is also the word Pico carved on the center of the silver ore. Clay stated there are seven foundations along with Native ruins there, two of the foundations can be seen the photo.
I hope I have not misrepresented his find in anyway.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Bill,tis a pity that this is a family oriented site, apparently you can teach me some interesting aspects of life in the big city

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Incidentally they did build smelters on the slopes Bill. They relied upon the hill for extra support and to form one of the walls. This type of smelter provided almost as much draft as a conventional one without the effort of constructig oneof the walls You could make your chimney of any height you wished for porper draw.

 

[azdave35]

there used to be a couple old smelters in the goldfield area..built into the side of the wash...not far from the power station..but sadly the tourist's have pretty much dismantled them and hauled them off one piece at a time...not much left...same with the two by queen valley..one is completely gone and the other is on its way back to nature

 

[sailaway]

What about the two cement "huts" that were described as being high on a ledge just off Fish Creek? Being as they were described as cement makes it unlikely there were built by natives. How ever we are outside the Topic of foundations even though smelters are types of man made structures. I have built fires in the wilderness, and found that you have to build walls high enough to prevent smoldering ashes from blowing out of the fire pit and creating a wildfire. Even when there is no normal winds the cooler mountain air rushes down the valleys toward lower ground in the evenings, and the warmer air rushes up the valleys in the mornings, during both these times there will be air that moves in the other directions like the mountains have a breath of life, breathing in and out. For these reasons you have to make your fires in a ring of stone with the opening 90 degrees away from the direction of these winds. It also works best when you have a chimney for the smoke to rise in.