Stone foundation some state was Mission

[Azquester]

Not sure how one would go about dating drill holes.
I am interested in their shape and what was used to make these holes. Ever find a local example?

Yes, I found a chisel that fits right in these rock holes which are sort of egg shaped from hand drilling or pounding the chisel with it. They didn't have to go very deep for splitting the rocks. Just a few inches down along a rock seam or a scribed line on the boulder or rock face like cutting glass and some sort of wood or leather pounded in the holes then add water letting the expansion split it in a slow process of early masonry.

 

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[Azquester]

Exploring underground sites such as caves is a reasonably safe experience, provided the explorer is experienced and properly equipped. Abandoned mines is a whole other story. I've worked as an underground miner in Colorado, and I can assure you that some abandoned mines are just as safe as caves, but many are potentially extremely dangerous due to a variety of reasons not apparent from peering inside them from the outside. Here in New Mexico, most abandoned mines on Federal and State land were sealed by the State Mineral Resources Divisions beginning in the 1970s, due to pressure from the cattle industry, a need to protect certain animal habitats (grated entries), and by an increasing exposure to lawsuits filed by unfortunate victims or their families who foolishly were injured or killed exploring. You can't eliminate yahoos' stupidity, but you can protect against their shifting the blame. By the way, if you own or operate a mine, on private or public land, it's your responsibility to keep the yahoos out.

Tell me about it!

I had an exploration permit on State Land and after I let the permit expire they sent me a letter quoting some obscure state law that they had twisted into making a threat that the state holds me responsible for the rest of my life if anyone falls into a hole at that claim site!

 

[somehiker]

Yes, I found a chisel that fits right in these rock holes which are sort of egg shaped from hand drilling or pounding the chisel with it. They didn't have to go very deep for splitting the rocks. Just a few inches down along a rock seam or a scribed line on the boulder or rock face like cutting glass and some sort of wood or leather pounded in the holes then add water letting the expansion split it in a slow process of early masonry.

Sounds like a jackhammer chisel Bill. They get pretty beat up after awhile, and the workers just toss them once they get too short to be of any further use.
Since you think all those rocks in that pile were cut or split by master masons, rather than a road construction crew, you must also have photos of what they were building with all that stuff.
That "mission site" out in the boonies should have lots more split or cut stone laying around as well, if these "master masons" were involved in it's construction.
Certainly more than just a few pieces scattered around the site, I would think. One would also think they would have too much pride in their craft to use plain old river rock in any part of a building they erected, let alone a "Mission".

 

[Azquester]

Looks like limestone debris from a road cut.

No roads any where near this site. You have to hike a ways to get there. I've found three of these sites so far near old Spanish mining area's. Hal and I established it must have been an interuption of a work in progress by an Apache attack and the miners were probably killed before they finished concealing the entrance or their cuttings. I believe there is an entrance under this pile of rock tailings the Indians threw over the entrance. The reason I say this is because the small out crop that is made of the same blue-ish gray rock right above the pile could not have produced the massive pile of cuttings, to much material, so there must be a tunnel underneath they came from. A geologist told me it was a gray like quartz known for gold seams and high gold values.

How many stories have we heard about this sort of concealment? Indians attack and throw the dead miners in their own mine covering it over afterwards.
It fits the old Narrative of those handed down stories. Peralta Treasure Room maybe?





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[Azquester]

Sounds like a jackhammer chisel Bill. They get pretty beat up after awhile, and the workers just toss them once they get too short to be of any further use.
Since you think all those rocks in that pile were cut or split by master masons, rather than a road construction crew, you must also have photos of what they were building with all that stuff.
That "mission site" out in the boonies should have lots more split or cut stone laying around as well, if these "master masons" were involved in it's construction.
Certainly more than just a few pieces scattered around the site, I would think. One would also think they would have too much pride in their craft to use plain old river rock in any part of a building they erected, let alone a "Mission".

Just a plain old hand chisel with one blade or point. I found it at another old Spanish site near this one with no cuttings visible. It was just lying there in the grass near the old entrance. I could be modern as it was not near the other site but I haven't had it tested to see if it's old or not. Just a novelty. Notice the real jack hammer rod behind it. It dosen't resemble the jack hammer rod at all.

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[somehiker]

Just a plain old hand chisel with one blade or point. I found it at another old Spanish site near this one with no cuttings visible. It was just lying there in the grass near the old entrance. I could be modern as it was not near the other site but I have had it tested to see if it's old or not. Just a novelty. Notice the real jack hammer rod behind it. It dosen't resemble the jack hammer rod at all.

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Both chisels in the photos are chisels meant for power tools Bill.
The one behind the rock still has the collet stop on it, and the bottom one has what was originally the upper part of the shaft forged with the u-shape recess common on hammer-drill bits, which turn as well as hammer the bit into the rock. I've used both types myself. Looks like someone HAS used them as hand drills though, again, probably because they became too short for jackhammer use. Seeing as we are now talking about mines, do you think these chisels were once used by Masons ?

 

[Azquester]

Both chisels in the photos are chisels meant for power tools Bill.
The one behind the rock still has the collet stop on it, and the bottom one has what was originally the upper part of the shaft forged with the u-shape recess common on hammer-drill bits, which turn as well as hammer the bit into the rock. I've used both types myself. Looks like someone HAS used them as hand drills though, again, probably because they became too short for jackhammer use. Seeing as we are now talking about mines, do you think these chisels were once used by Masons ?

[video=youtube;-AFBAnpjy5c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-AFBAnpjy5c[/video]



[video=youtube;8WzCkbs1ghI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8WzCkbs1ghI[/video]

Old Free Mason finish Chisel. The shank looks just like the one I posted.
View attachment 1290411

 

[Azquester]

Micro Blasting.

Just thought it was a cool way of splitting rock in todays world without a lot of noise.

 

[Azquester]

These below are really old mason chisels.


View attachment 1290418

Almost all old free mason chisels have the same diameter and general configuration as the one I posted. People sould probably look closer when assuming they're just modern Drill rods or jack hammer rods that were adapted for hand use. They may just have genuine Masons Chisels!

These all came from Ebay.

View attachment 1290416 View attachment 1290417

 

[somehiker]

The tools were all made by blacksmiths in the old days, and by tool companies in more modern times Bill.
They are common, and have been used by many who had no connection to Freemasonry, for the same kinds of work.
I have some myself, with a few having been passed down from my great grandfather, who was more a sailor than a mason.
And from my grandfather and father, who weren't Freemasons either, but had to work stone or concrete at one time or another.
I can gather some up for a photo if you'd like to see them, but they all look the same as what you have already posted.

Just google " common stone mason tools ", where this came from, for more photos....

View attachment common masonry tools.bmp

 

[EarnieP]

Old or modern, nice tools either way Bill. Old rusted heavy iron tools have their own appeal don't they.

Years ago I was hiking along the shore of one of the sparely inhabited Bahama Islands, miles from any human activity.
Several yards from shore I found a chunk of coral with what look to be a piece of old iron embedded in it, tiny bit sticking out. The coral was several inches thick around the iron, so I thought man I've got something really old here!
Took it home and chipped and cleaned off all that coral. When I got down to the length of iron, it was nothing but 'dust'. Of course I realize now that I should have stabilized the metal object before removing the coral.
I could tell the shape the object 'had been', came to a point. Spear point? Sword end? Large fish hook end? Anchor point? One of Bill's chisels? Don't know.
I did find out later that some coral can grow as much as 1" a year, so maybe it wasn't as old as I had originally thought.
Hope it wasn't the last bit of physical evidence of Columbus' first landing site in the New World.

 

[Hal Croves]

Micro Blasting.

Just thought it was a cool way of splitting rock in todays world without a lot of noise.

That is incredible.

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

Thank you Bill for those videos, i need to work out some caliche, that battery power hammer drill sure went right thru that stone. So it looks like that will work for me. Id like to charge it, but our government will say iam a domestic terrorist, + other things. thanks again.

 

[Weaversneedle]

Thank you Bill for those videos, i need to work out some caliche, that battery power hammer drill sure went right thru that stone. So it looks like that will work for me. Id like to charge it, but our government will say iam a domestic terrorist, + other things. thanks again.

Dog, I have used the micro blaster before and it isn't bad...not cheap though

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

Dog, I have used the micro blaster before and it isn't bad...not cheap though

Thanks Weavers, Do you know if the Government will classify a person as a Terrorist if they use it,now a days? I really like that micro blaster.

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

Iam sure i could make one, It looks like a pneumatic firing pin,hitting a primer charge. you could use a light weight, aerosol can. But still do time iam sure.

 

[sdcfia]

That is incredible.

It's a clever little rock cracker, but a foot of cannon fuse, about ten feet of detcord and a few well-placed slices of plastic explosive will turn that boulder into driveway gravel. Blowing up big rocks in mines was probably the most fun I've ever had with my clothes on. Oh, well, since you can't get this stuff in the hardware store anymore, I guess the rock cracker will have to do.

 

[somehiker]

Anyone try this stuff ?

Chemical Demolition Agent: Non-Explosive Concrete Demolition

 

[Weaversneedle]

Anyone try this stuff ?

Chemical Demolition Agent: Non-Explosive Concrete Demolition

Yes, it's the same as dexpan or swell gell

 

[gollum]

All those rapidly expanding foam products are tricky to use. You have to get the correct mix. You have to adjust the mix due to temp/humidity. You have to first drill the hole, then wallow the bottom of the hole out, so it is larger than the hole at the top. That way, when the foam expands, it doesn't just squirt out the top hole. For my money, try the Sierra Blaster:

SIERRA BLASTER

Mike