djui5
Bronze Member
That's actually brilliant, instead of looking for the mines entrance, look for the vents. They always have vents of some kind if there's any depth to the mine at all.
strange pile of rocks
- Thread starter TLH
- Start date
Well I have looked at your photos and will look at them again in a few days.
You say this is a gold producing area. That is good.
Do you have any historical reference for Spanish explorers being in your area? Have you learned the early history for the area? Are there any treasure tales of Spanish being in this area?
The turtles alone would get me interested in investigating if there is any link Spanish Explorers being in the area.
The problem is the area has unique geologic features. So unless you can link Spain to the area they might be just interesting rock formations.
I would confirm that the Spanish were in the area through History. If you can do that Trail head monuments are easy to find.
Do a google search for Spanish missions and Spanish Explorers in the State and County where these things are located. Once you have some clarity about that you can find the roads that they used and then look for notches or U's that show trail entrances.
If you are not into research-
Learn how your Scanner works...
Then I would take your scanner and scan all around and on top of the turtles. Then I would scan the areas that the turtles are looking at. Use a metal detector around them too.
I would do the research first. If history proves the Spanish were there, then there is more markers in the area.
I wish you had more photos of the area.
So your sewer pipes are metal. Bummer mine are 6 inch PVC pipes about 5 feet underground.
Some of the photos do look promising. I would look into it further if I were you.
PM me if you find anything interesting about the history.
BTW: Most people will think you are nuts for posting photos and asking about Spanish treasure signs. I learned that years ago here. Spanish treasure has a lot of lore and mystery to it. Several treasure hunters do not believe in the symbols or the lore.
They are wrong of course. But that is why I do not respond publicly here that often and do most of this type a thing by PM. You will also notice my posts will often disappear.
Find some history to back this up and I will help find the other markers and perhaps a few other things.
You say this is a gold producing area. That is good.
Do you have any historical reference for Spanish explorers being in your area? Have you learned the early history for the area? Are there any treasure tales of Spanish being in this area?
The turtles alone would get me interested in investigating if there is any link Spanish Explorers being in the area.
The problem is the area has unique geologic features. So unless you can link Spain to the area they might be just interesting rock formations.
I would confirm that the Spanish were in the area through History. If you can do that Trail head monuments are easy to find.
Do a google search for Spanish missions and Spanish Explorers in the State and County where these things are located. Once you have some clarity about that you can find the roads that they used and then look for notches or U's that show trail entrances.
If you are not into research-
Learn how your Scanner works...
Then I would take your scanner and scan all around and on top of the turtles. Then I would scan the areas that the turtles are looking at. Use a metal detector around them too.
I would do the research first. If history proves the Spanish were there, then there is more markers in the area.
I wish you had more photos of the area.
So your sewer pipes are metal. Bummer mine are 6 inch PVC pipes about 5 feet underground.
Some of the photos do look promising. I would look into it further if I were you.
PM me if you find anything interesting about the history.
BTW: Most people will think you are nuts for posting photos and asking about Spanish treasure signs. I learned that years ago here. Spanish treasure has a lot of lore and mystery to it. Several treasure hunters do not believe in the symbols or the lore.
They are wrong of course. But that is why I do not respond publicly here that often and do most of this type a thing by PM. You will also notice my posts will often disappear.
Find some history to back this up and I will help find the other markers and perhaps a few other things.
- #263
Thread Owner
Always good to hear from you djui5. Is there some kind of easy way of locating vents ? Cause you and ericwt are right, the mine probably had air vents [ pozos ] and if you find one, you have a mine.But my understanding is that they were hidden just as carefully as the entrance was. and I believe that they were kinda small, only big enough for a man to escape from in an emergency. Now since they are a vertical shaft, that would make them a very small target for my magic gadget, I would have to walk right over the top of it. If I did walk over the top of a pozo, I think it would show up on my computer screen beautifully,I couldn't miss it. As for hunting with a shovel, I don't know how I could locate a pozo.
It doesn't look like I'm going to get to hike up to the old mine and scan it, supposed to rain off and on all day-----again.
It doesn't look like I'm going to get to hike up to the old mine and scan it, supposed to rain off and on all day-----again.
- #264
Thread Owner
ericwt, Thanks for your last post, It was informative as always.
The most important question in your post is whether or not there were Spanish in my area,thats easy! I
didn't have to research that one at all. There were Spanish all over my area, you couldn't swing
a dead cat without hitting a Spaniard, geeky collage professors write books about the early
Spanish explorers in my area,my area was named by the Spanish, and only my laborious one finger
typing style prevents me from mentioning early Spanish names you will have heard of. So theres
no problem finding a Spanish footprint in my area.
I'm still trying to learn how to use my magic box, I'm hoping that scanning the old mine close
to my house will give me enough information that I will know what I'm looking at when I scan the
areas at the site that you mentioned and others that I'm thinking of.
I have lots of photos of the area, last time I looked I had 50 gigs of high rez photos of the
area, But theres a lot of them I cant show.
I'm looking forward to any help,insight,or even clues you can give me.
The most important question in your post is whether or not there were Spanish in my area,thats easy! I
didn't have to research that one at all. There were Spanish all over my area, you couldn't swing
a dead cat without hitting a Spaniard, geeky collage professors write books about the early
Spanish explorers in my area,my area was named by the Spanish, and only my laborious one finger
typing style prevents me from mentioning early Spanish names you will have heard of. So theres
no problem finding a Spanish footprint in my area.
I'm still trying to learn how to use my magic box, I'm hoping that scanning the old mine close
to my house will give me enough information that I will know what I'm looking at when I scan the
areas at the site that you mentioned and others that I'm thinking of.
I have lots of photos of the area, last time I looked I had 50 gigs of high rez photos of the
area, But theres a lot of them I cant show.
I'm looking forward to any help,insight,or even clues you can give me.
Okay understand I have to as questions because I have learned not to assume anything.
Based on the photos that I have seen that I think are real Spanish markers (4) I can only have a general idea on what I would do if I was in your situation. It is really hard to say without closer photos or more photos of markers or monuments. I already have strong hunches about things and I am usually correct about them. But that alone is not enough for most logical and sane people to go on.
However you are in the area and you have the scanner, so you have really nothing to loose. Learn and scan.
There is really no point in going on about following monuments if you already have turtles and you know where they are. Sure it would be nice to see inscriptions on the markers or drill holes for the mine shrine but...
Turtles are usually your key to the Kingdom. At least that is what I have found.
Here is the thing, pozos are capped and buried, usually about 3 feet under the ground. With your gizmo it should have no problem detecting the void under the overburden. Providing you are on top of it or very close to it.
Mine shafts are also covered. But with a heck of a lot more material.
Way more than 3 to 5 feet!
Gee I hope you like to dig
Personally I like to go after smaller caches in the area. They are easier to find and recover. But none of your photos show resting place monuments or fishing, watering areas.
If you find your mine your logistical problems have just begun. Finding is easy, recovery is the bitch.
I will try to help you if I can but without more to go on I am somewhat limited.
Do not give away your location in any way on this site. Close up photos are better as wide angle can reveal location details.
Ask any questions and I will try to provide insight.
Based on the photos that I have seen that I think are real Spanish markers (4) I can only have a general idea on what I would do if I was in your situation. It is really hard to say without closer photos or more photos of markers or monuments. I already have strong hunches about things and I am usually correct about them. But that alone is not enough for most logical and sane people to go on.
However you are in the area and you have the scanner, so you have really nothing to loose. Learn and scan.
There is really no point in going on about following monuments if you already have turtles and you know where they are. Sure it would be nice to see inscriptions on the markers or drill holes for the mine shrine but...
Turtles are usually your key to the Kingdom. At least that is what I have found.
Here is the thing, pozos are capped and buried, usually about 3 feet under the ground. With your gizmo it should have no problem detecting the void under the overburden. Providing you are on top of it or very close to it.
Mine shafts are also covered. But with a heck of a lot more material.
Way more than 3 to 5 feet!
Gee I hope you like to dig
Personally I like to go after smaller caches in the area. They are easier to find and recover. But none of your photos show resting place monuments or fishing, watering areas.
If you find your mine your logistical problems have just begun. Finding is easy, recovery is the bitch.
I will try to help you if I can but without more to go on I am somewhat limited.
Do not give away your location in any way on this site. Close up photos are better as wide angle can reveal location details.
Ask any questions and I will try to provide insight.
- #267
Thread Owner
Thanks ericwtfor getting back to me so soon,I really appreciate it. You mentioned drill holes for the mine
shrine, I read about those in Charles Kenworthy books and I was wondering how you feel about Mr.Kenworthys
books , I believe I would have a better insight into where your coming from if I knew you were a believer or a
non believer in his trail sign interpretation.
I agree with you that a hidden mine shaft would be very difficult to find,and would be a very small target for
my magic gadget, but I'm hoping for a tunnel. The quartz vain's around the site " and there are many of them"
tend to trend down at a shallow angle, due to the geology of the area. so I'm hoping that like most miners, they
started with a tunnel, and if I'm lucky there maybe a couple hundred feet of tunnel and maybe even a stope,
shallow enough for my magic beam to reach. that would be a big target.
You mentioned monuments for camping, water, etc. I my case there would be no need for such monuments.
I appreciate your offer of help, and can show you any kind of picture that would be of help . anything in
the picture that might give a clue as to its location will be photoshoped out. I understand that you and everyone
else have been looking at little scattered pieces of this puzzle, and Ive done that on purpose, but in the field
Its a very small area and some things appear to be tied together.
I have many questions , Its answers I'm lacking. So here's one. I would find it very helpful to know which of
the pictures you believe are real Spanish monuments? That way I could concentrate on them and what they
point to.
shrine, I read about those in Charles Kenworthy books and I was wondering how you feel about Mr.Kenworthys
books , I believe I would have a better insight into where your coming from if I knew you were a believer or a
non believer in his trail sign interpretation.
I agree with you that a hidden mine shaft would be very difficult to find,and would be a very small target for
my magic gadget, but I'm hoping for a tunnel. The quartz vain's around the site " and there are many of them"
tend to trend down at a shallow angle, due to the geology of the area. so I'm hoping that like most miners, they
started with a tunnel, and if I'm lucky there maybe a couple hundred feet of tunnel and maybe even a stope,
shallow enough for my magic beam to reach. that would be a big target.
You mentioned monuments for camping, water, etc. I my case there would be no need for such monuments.
I appreciate your offer of help, and can show you any kind of picture that would be of help . anything in
the picture that might give a clue as to its location will be photoshoped out. I understand that you and everyone
else have been looking at little scattered pieces of this puzzle, and Ive done that on purpose, but in the field
Its a very small area and some things appear to be tied together.
I have many questions , Its answers I'm lacking. So here's one. I would find it very helpful to know which of
the pictures you believe are real Spanish monuments? That way I could concentrate on them and what they
point to.
As to the question of Charles Kenworthy..
Yes I believe in his work, But see Qualifier below.
Mr. Kenworthy's major work on Spanish Markers and Monuments came from the Spanish Archives. He was a researcher and a PhD as well as a professor. He is not one of these common authors that slaps out books because he could not make money treasure hunting.
Millions of dollars worth of treasure has been located directly because of his work.
Now the Qualifier...
Jesuit symbols were different than those noted in his books.
Also personal greed of the Mine owners came into play.
I believe some symbols were altered and moved at the last moment to prevent the King of Span from recovering mines or troves.
Pointer rocks might be reversed to misdirect other people from finding the mine. Other alterations I believe happened.
So yes and no to Kenworthy's work. It is a useful guide but not the last word.
His lost Dutchman book is his worst work. But even that contains gems if you can find them.
His other books are worth more to me than almost any other treasure books.
I will again go over your photos when I have time later tonight and will PM you my opinions.
Sounds like you are into the hard rock mining. Good for you! Too much work for me. I go after caches and troves.
Yes I believe in his work, But see Qualifier below.
Mr. Kenworthy's major work on Spanish Markers and Monuments came from the Spanish Archives. He was a researcher and a PhD as well as a professor. He is not one of these common authors that slaps out books because he could not make money treasure hunting.
Millions of dollars worth of treasure has been located directly because of his work.
Now the Qualifier...
Jesuit symbols were different than those noted in his books.
Also personal greed of the Mine owners came into play.
I believe some symbols were altered and moved at the last moment to prevent the King of Span from recovering mines or troves.
Pointer rocks might be reversed to misdirect other people from finding the mine. Other alterations I believe happened.
So yes and no to Kenworthy's work. It is a useful guide but not the last word.
His lost Dutchman book is his worst work. But even that contains gems if you can find them.
His other books are worth more to me than almost any other treasure books.
I will again go over your photos when I have time later tonight and will PM you my opinions.
Sounds like you are into the hard rock mining. Good for you! Too much work for me. I go after caches and troves.
- #270
Thread Owner
ericwt I still haven't found the alpha and omega monuments you spoke of earlier, I've been looking. I cant seem
to find two things that look the same that are in different locations. I thought alpha and omega monuments were
at the beginning of the main trail and at the end of the trail, but what I think I have found is what Kenworthy
called a "master monument" I could be very very wrong about this,but if Kenworthy is correct about the three
maps and three kinds of trails, range trail, mountain trail, and treasure trail, then the only place where there
would be a lot of markers in a very small space, would be at the master monument. and only have an Omega.
If you feel I'm wrong, let me know and Ill have myself flogged.
to find two things that look the same that are in different locations. I thought alpha and omega monuments were
at the beginning of the main trail and at the end of the trail, but what I think I have found is what Kenworthy
called a "master monument" I could be very very wrong about this,but if Kenworthy is correct about the three
maps and three kinds of trails, range trail, mountain trail, and treasure trail, then the only place where there
would be a lot of markers in a very small space, would be at the master monument. and only have an Omega.
If you feel I'm wrong, let me know and Ill have myself flogged.
No need to flog yourself.
Usually trail monuments are located and can be seen from the trail from one mission to another.
I do not have all the information you have at hand.
There is always a Alpha and an Omega.
If we are dealing with a small area that is not to far off the mission road, would it not be possible for there to be an alpha and omega in the same place?
Understand Mr. Kenworthy died before all of his research was published. He only got a fraction of what was actually at the archives in Spain and Mexico.
His work is valuable but is not infallible.
But based on a few photos I am somewhat limited as to what I can tell you.
There may well be several other monuments and markers in the area. So I do not have much to go on.
Usually trail monuments are located and can be seen from the trail from one mission to another.
I do not have all the information you have at hand.
There is always a Alpha and an Omega.
If we are dealing with a small area that is not to far off the mission road, would it not be possible for there to be an alpha and omega in the same place?
Understand Mr. Kenworthy died before all of his research was published. He only got a fraction of what was actually at the archives in Spain and Mexico.
His work is valuable but is not infallible.
But based on a few photos I am somewhat limited as to what I can tell you.
There may well be several other monuments and markers in the area. So I do not have much to go on.
- #272
Thread Owner
ericwt Kenworthys books were my first and used to be my only treasure books, but I own a few more now. Life was simpler when I only had Kenworthys books,I just took whatever he said and ran with it. but now I read other books,I look on the internet, I try and talk with knowladgeable people,and it seems Im not getting smarter, Im just getting more confused. Talking about Spanish treasure is like talking to car people about which is better a Chevy or a Ford,[Chevy is]nobody seems to agree on anything.Even if I knew exactly what Spanish signs meant it would still be extremly difficult to locate their mine,but when even the experts cant agree on or dont know what a sign means, how can little ole me ever find anything. People cant even agree on WHO to believe, Ive heard some people say that Kenworthy couldn't find his butt with both hands, others say he wrote the Bible. Whats a poboy like me to do?
S
Smee
Guest
Follow your instincts. You are there, you see everything. Your mind will begin to put two and two together . . . even if you aren't aware of it at the time. Just don't get in a hurry, be careful.
Like you mentioned, some believe he wrote the bible on signs and others think it is rubbish. I think signs were meant for the person who put them there, not for you or me. They may not have known what the sign actually meant or have interpreted something differently than the book shows, or even used a misleading sign on purpose.
A working knowledge of the variables such as why they were left, who left them, the time period in which they were left, will eventually open up a better understanding of the signs to you. The way you are sticking with this, I have confidence that you'll figure it out. It just may take some time.
Again, be patient, and keep us updated.
Like you mentioned, some believe he wrote the bible on signs and others think it is rubbish. I think signs were meant for the person who put them there, not for you or me. They may not have known what the sign actually meant or have interpreted something differently than the book shows, or even used a misleading sign on purpose.
A working knowledge of the variables such as why they were left, who left them, the time period in which they were left, will eventually open up a better understanding of the signs to you. The way you are sticking with this, I have confidence that you'll figure it out. It just may take some time.
Again, be patient, and keep us updated.
- #274
Thread Owner
Thank you Smee, Your encouragement and confidence are appreciated. I'm really hoping my recent conversion to
the technological side of treasure hunting will get me moving ahead this summer.If my magic treasure hunting
gadget works at finding tunnels maybe it will make all the treasure sign controversy moot.
the technological side of treasure hunting will get me moving ahead this summer.If my magic treasure hunting
gadget works at finding tunnels maybe it will make all the treasure sign controversy moot.
Old Dog
Gold Member
You've been at this one long and hard my friend, If you do find it there will be enough material here for a book.
Knowing that you found it will give you an edge over some of these so called experts that wrote books and never found anything.
Good work,
So far anyway
We are rooting for you.
OD
Knowing that you found it will give you an edge over some of these so called experts that wrote books and never found anything.
Good work,
So far anyway
We are rooting for you.
OD
No easy answer. But like Smee said "trust your instincts."
The people who say Kenworthy never found anything are misinformed. He died a very rich man.
Learn what you can about Spanish monuments. His work is correct as far as what Spain required them to do. But greed easily takes over how people react in the real world.
Even if everything he wrote was completely true. You have no idea if the cache or treasure has been discovered by someone else.
The best thing to do is learn what you can and then trust but verify your feelings with technology and science.
If you want to find a gold mine study Geology and then Geophysics.
Get the best equipment you can and go out there and don't quit.
You are in an area that produces Gold. History proves this. Learn your equipment and gain knowledge.
There are no easy answers. But I know you can do it.
The people who say Kenworthy never found anything are misinformed. He died a very rich man.
Learn what you can about Spanish monuments. His work is correct as far as what Spain required them to do. But greed easily takes over how people react in the real world.
Even if everything he wrote was completely true. You have no idea if the cache or treasure has been discovered by someone else.
The best thing to do is learn what you can and then trust but verify your feelings with technology and science.
If you want to find a gold mine study Geology and then Geophysics.
Get the best equipment you can and go out there and don't quit.
You are in an area that produces Gold. History proves this. Learn your equipment and gain knowledge.
There are no easy answers. But I know you can do it.
- #277
Thread Owner
Thanks ericwt, It always helps to hear some encouragement.
I'm hoping that no one has beat me to it, If its real, Ive never seen any signs of anyone working my site, no digging,
no prospecting pits, no old tunnels. Just a lot of strange rocks.
I'm hoping that no one has beat me to it, If its real, Ive never seen any signs of anyone working my site, no digging,
no prospecting pits, no old tunnels. Just a lot of strange rocks.
- #278
Thread Owner
Wow! Thanks Old Dog that pep talk makes me want to go out and dig
something up. But you know,even if I don't find anything I've had some great times
hiking out in the woods, and climbing up the mountains, living in my camper out
at the site, watching the deer and elk feeding outside my window,sitting beside a
campfire at night with my trusty Glock on my hip listening to the coyotes howl. And
you know, On some nights when the moon is bright enough to cast shadows in the
valley below me, and the fire has burned down to its last embers just before its
time to turn in, I can look down into that valley and see them coming, I can
barely make them out at first, just moving shadows, I cup my hand behind my ear and
I can just make out the sounds of horses hooves clomping on stone and the moans of
a hundred men bent under a load no mortal man could bare. As they get closer I can
see ten men on horse back, their backs are straight and they sit a saddle like they
were born to it, their eyes are fixed on a mountain pass just south of here, the
trail home. as they trudge by me I look back at where they came from, straining my
eyes to see through the darkness, just to get a glimpse of the mine they were
leaving behind and all the riches it must hold. But there's nothing except the darkness,
the moon is sinking, the shadows have dissolved and the night takes back the
land. I look back towards the long columns of men, and the night as swallowed them as
well. It gets quite again just like before, a popping ember and a coyote off on the
other side of the valley are the only sounds that break the silence. I look at my
watch, its ten minutes after twelve. I pick up my glass of Jack Daniels off of a
rock, and face the mountain pass that's hidden in the darkness, I raise my glass in
a toast and drink the last watered down swallow,Vaio Con Dios Amigos,Vaio Con Dios.
OK Old Dog that's the first page of my new book. But if I'm gonna make any money
Ill have to learn to type with more than one finger.
something up. But you know,even if I don't find anything I've had some great times
hiking out in the woods, and climbing up the mountains, living in my camper out
at the site, watching the deer and elk feeding outside my window,sitting beside a
campfire at night with my trusty Glock on my hip listening to the coyotes howl. And
you know, On some nights when the moon is bright enough to cast shadows in the
valley below me, and the fire has burned down to its last embers just before its
time to turn in, I can look down into that valley and see them coming, I can
barely make them out at first, just moving shadows, I cup my hand behind my ear and
I can just make out the sounds of horses hooves clomping on stone and the moans of
a hundred men bent under a load no mortal man could bare. As they get closer I can
see ten men on horse back, their backs are straight and they sit a saddle like they
were born to it, their eyes are fixed on a mountain pass just south of here, the
trail home. as they trudge by me I look back at where they came from, straining my
eyes to see through the darkness, just to get a glimpse of the mine they were
leaving behind and all the riches it must hold. But there's nothing except the darkness,
the moon is sinking, the shadows have dissolved and the night takes back the
land. I look back towards the long columns of men, and the night as swallowed them as
well. It gets quite again just like before, a popping ember and a coyote off on the
other side of the valley are the only sounds that break the silence. I look at my
watch, its ten minutes after twelve. I pick up my glass of Jack Daniels off of a
rock, and face the mountain pass that's hidden in the darkness, I raise my glass in
a toast and drink the last watered down swallow,Vaio Con Dios Amigos,Vaio Con Dios.
OK Old Dog that's the first page of my new book. But if I'm gonna make any money
Ill have to learn to type with more than one finger.
- #280
Thread Owner
djui5 They can have it, it was only a one page book anyway. But I'm glad you told me that, Ive been putting some
pictures over on the "My Daily Snapshot" side of Treasurenet, now I'm glad I only sent my rejects.
pictures over on the "My Daily Snapshot" side of Treasurenet, now I'm glad I only sent my rejects.
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