"The Broken Spears", a book on the Conquest

piegrande

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May 16, 2010
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I have no idea how long I have had, "The Broken Spears". I picked it up a day or two ago and do not remember reading it.

A book which took Aztec writings on the Cortes conquest and translated them first to Spanish, then to English. As early as 1528, Aztec scholars had learned a Latin Alphabet for their language (akin to what my wife's friends in Wycliffe Bible Translators did in the last century) and were using it to write their own history as best they could. Amazon, as low as $9 plus shipping. If I already wrote on this book, I apologize for the wear and tear on your eyeballs.

If you want good laughs, be sure to read all the reviews on the Amazon pages for this book. Waaa! Waaa! Waaa! Poor Aztecs and such cruel Spanish! Really? Hahaha.

My wife is descended from Moctezuma I, as is most of our village due to family intermarriages over the centuries. The Tenochas extracted significant tributes, every 80 days. The list, I have a copy somewhere, included a certain number of slaves for sacrifice. They were nominally supposed to be war prisoners from Tlaxcala, but it doesn't take a lot of thought to realize one simply could not capture that many slaves, every 80 days. So, guess where the cacique got the required number of sacrificial slaves every 80 days?

No, do not feel sorry for what the Spanish did to the Aztecs. It probably wasn't serious enough, for what they did routinely to other living humans. It was their own evil which doomed them. Without the help of other tribes, all of whom were forced to ship their people to have their hearts ripped out, Cortes would have lost, period. Our local cacique sent a messenger to Cortes when he entered Tlaxcala, to tell him he would help fight his own cousins in Tenochtitlan. And, so he did.

But, of interest on this board is what happened to the 20 tons of gold Cortes tried to take out of Tenochtitlan during the Noche Triste. This book has 4 references to that gold.

First, page 89. [The Aztecs chasing after the Spanish who had as much as 20 tons of gold trying to run and fight] "...recovered the gold ingots, the gold disks, the tubes of gold dust and the chalchihuite collars with their gold pendants.
They gathered up everything they could find and searched the waters of the canal with greatest care. Some of them groped with their hands and others felt about with their feet."


This agrees with the quote by Bernal Diaz from the Aztecs who told him they saved nearly all of the treasure which fell in the canal.

Second, page 120. After the surrender, Cortes demanded the gold be given to him. They brought "bars of gold, gold crowns, gold ornaments for the arms and legs, gold helmets and disks of gold." Cortes doubted that was all the gold they had, and the Aztecs started weaseling. "The rest of the gold must be in Texopan." And, so forth.

One of the Aztecs said, "Perhaps some woman has hidden the gold under her skirts." Um, tons of it, one woman's skirts? Hee, hee. Although that does remind me of a woman I worked with nearly 40 years ago...

Third, Page 125. Some discusssion of 8 bars of gold stored in the care of a steward in the palace where Cortes had slept. The steward had died and when his son, who was the new steward, learned that 4 of those 8 bars were missing, he fled for his life.

Fourth, page 142. Another tale of Aztecs giving a small quantity of gold to Cortes, and him angrily demanding the rest of it. They told him, "Cuauhtemoc gave it to the Cihuacoatl and the Huiznahuacatl. Ask them."

A reminder that the estimated five tons of treasure which was successfully taken away by Tlaxcalans during Noche Triste was placed on a ship going to Spain, and sank not far from Vera Cruz. And, some of it was found in the 20th Century, and put in a bank vault for safe-keeping. When an inspection team was sent a few years later the bank insisted it had never been given any treasure. Hee, hee.

Again, this book supplies nothing which contradicts my wild theory that it is next door to me. :D What it actually does is support the reality that such a treasure exists, somewhere.
 

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piegrande

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May 16, 2010
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I suppose it's obvious to all who have actually read my intellectual investigations that this is the third source from that era. It only supports the existence of the treasure, with no information as to where it went (except the tons sent on a ship that sank.)

So, three sources now. Letters to the King, by Cortes. Bernal Dias writings. And, now the Aztec's own version. All agree the treasure existed in a major quantity. I also wrote on a thread the issues which would probably indicate the treasure is not here. The number one negative would be if someone found another place which belonged at that time to the Tenocha family, with local legends of the treasure being buried there.
 

bobinsd

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Oct 20, 2005
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I have no idea how long I have had, "The Broken Spears". I picked it up a day or two ago and do not remember reading it.

A book which took Aztec writings on the Cortes conquest and translated them first to Spanish, then to English. As early as 1528, Aztec scholars had learned a Latin Alphabet for their language (akin to what my wife's friends in Wycliffe Bible Translators did in the last century) and were using it to write their own history as best they could. Amazon, as low as $9 plus shipping. If I already wrote on this book, I apologize for the wear and tear on your eyeballs.

If you want good laughs, be sure to read all the reviews on the Amazon pages for this book. Waaa! Waaa! Waaa! Poor Aztecs and such cruel Spanish! Really? Hahaha.

My wife is descended from Moctezuma I, as is most of our village due to family intermarriages over the centuries. The Tenochas extracted significant tributes, every 80 days. The list, I have a copy somewhere, included a certain number of slaves for sacrifice. They were nominally supposed to be war prisoners from Tlaxcala, but it doesn't take a lot of thought to realize one simply could not capture that many slaves, every 80 days. So, guess where the cacique got the required number of sacrificial slaves every 80 days?

No, do not feel sorry for what the Spanish did to the Aztecs. It probably wasn't serious enough, for what they did routinely to other living humans. It was their own evil which doomed them. Without the help of other tribes, all of whom were forced to ship their people to have their hearts ripped out, Cortes would have lost, period. Our local cacique sent a messenger to Cortes when he entered Tlaxcala, to tell him he would help fight his own cousins in Tenochtitlan. And, so he did.

But, of interest on this board is what happened to the 20 tons of gold Cortes tried to take out of Tenochtitlan during the Noche Triste. This book has 4 references to that gold.

First, page 89. [The Aztecs chasing after the Spanish who had as much as 20 tons of gold trying to run and fight] "...recovered the gold ingots, the gold disks, the tubes of gold dust and the chalchihuite collars with their gold pendants.
They gathered up everything they could find and searched the waters of the canal with greatest care. Some of them groped with their hands and others felt about with their feet."


This agrees with the quote by Bernal Diaz from the Aztecs who told him they saved nearly all of the treasure which fell in the canal.

Second, page 120. After the surrender, Cortes demanded the gold be given to him. They brought "bars of gold, gold crowns, gold ornaments for the arms and legs, gold helmets and disks of gold." Cortes doubted that was all the gold they had, and the Aztecs started weaseling. "The rest of the gold must be in Texopan." And, so forth.

One of the Aztecs said, "Perhaps some woman has hidden the gold under her skirts." Um, tons of it, one woman's skirts? Hee, hee. Although that does remind me of a woman I worked with nearly 40 years ago...

Third, Page 125. Some discusssion of 8 bars of gold stored in the care of a steward in the palace where Cortes had slept. The steward had died and when his son, who was the new steward, learned that 4 of those 8 bars were missing, he fled for his life.

Fourth, page 142. Another tale of Aztecs giving a small quantity of gold to Cortes, and him angrily demanding the rest of it. They told him, "Cuauhtemoc gave it to the Cihuacoatl and the Huiznahuacatl. Ask them."

A reminder that the estimated five tons of treasure which was successfully taken away by Tlaxcalans during Noche Triste was placed on a ship going to Spain, and sank not far from Vera Cruz. And, some of it was found in the 20th Century, and put in a bank vault for safe-keeping. When an inspection team was sent a few years later the bank insisted it had never been given any treasure. Hee, hee.

Again, this book supplies nothing which contradicts my wild theory that it is next door to me. :D What it actually does is support the reality that such a treasure exists, somewhere.


Is it possible that the woman is a reference to a mountain of other physical location? If so there could be treasure buried under her skirts.
Does the nearby volcano have a feminine name? Perhaps a lake or a waterfall with skirts?
 

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piegrande

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Right now, I can't remember the Aztec name for the mountain, but not far from Popo which is not far from Mexico City is a non-active mountain, known commonly as the Sleeping Woman. :D

Both can be seen for hundreds of miles.

Popo due to eruptions is pretty much close to climbers, but the Sleeping Woman is open.

Don't stop here. Such ideas sometimes cause great discoveries. I spent over 30 years (not full time, of course) investigating local tales that the treasure was here, before concluding it really is. IMO.

Good one!
 

bobinsd

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Oct 20, 2005
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Gold on lake Xaltocan?

Right now, I can't remember the Aztec name for the mountain, but not far from Popo which is not far from Mexico City is a non-active mountain, known commonly as the Sleeping Woman. :D

Both can be seen for hundreds of miles.

Popo due to eruptions is pretty much close to climbers, but the Sleeping Woman is open.

Don't stop here. Such ideas sometimes cause great discoveries. I spent over 30 years (not full time, of course) investigating local tales that the treasure was here, before concluding it really is. IMO.

Good one!

Pie....on page 548 of CONQUEST by Hugh Thomas their is mentioned in the residencia
Against Cortez of a room full of gold on the island of Xaltocan. If it were not all removed by Cortez there might be some buried near the original building. This is one of the books I will be giving away for mailing cost. Do you have it??
Bob
 

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piegrande

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No, and do not want anyone to send me a copy, but thanks anyway.
 

gollum

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I know this is kind of an old thread, but I agree that The Broken Spears is a must have book on the subject. If anybody hasn't read it yet, you should also read Bernal Diaz del Castillo's Book "A True History of the Conquest of New Spain". A large book, but amazing first hand accounts of the battle at Tenochtitlan in 1521.

Mike
 

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piegrande

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Bernal Diaz, actually theorized a pen name for Cortes, was a major source for my belief that the gold is here.
 

bobinsd

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I know this is kind of an old thread, but I agree that The Broken Spears is a must have book on the subject. If anybody hasn't read it yet, you should also read Bernal Diaz del Castillo's Book "A True History of the Conquest of New Spain". A large book, but amazing first hand accounts of the battle at Tenochtitlan in 1521.

Mike
Mike, would you like a hardback of H ugh Thomas "Conquest"? 800 pgs.

I just reread it but would like it to go to appreciative hands.
 

gollum

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Mike, would you like a hardback of H ugh Thomas "Conquest"? 800 pgs.

I just reread it but would like it to go to appreciative hands.

Hey Bob,

Thanks for the offer, but I have it already.

Mike
 

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