The Knights Templar connection to Oak Island (if it's possible)

[lokiblossom]

It is irrelevant when the report was written, the record shows that Columbus reported finding coconuts, not Cook, Columbus did not write his report in 1910.....unless he was a time traveller, It was Columbus who made the initial report that there were coconuts where he had landed, which is proof that coconuts were there BEFORE the Portuguese introduced them in 1499, unless Columbus was a liar

From Cooks report, the Columbus statement as translated; "they found a large nut (singular) of the kind belonging to India, great rats and enormous crabs". Remembering that Columbus was employed to find a route to the Far East, including India I'm not sure how much merit a wishful explorers remark would carry.

The study I reference was published September of 2013 as "Coconuts in the Americas" by Authors, Charles Clement, Daniel Zizumbo-Villarreal, Cecil Brown, Alessandro alves-Pereira and Hugh Harries. Their conclusion, quote, " It has been clearly established that the Portuguese introduced coconuts to the Cape Verde Islands in 1499, and these supplied the Atlantic Coasts and the Caribbean in the 1500's".

Please read this report Alan, I don't think you will disagree with it.

Cheers, Loki

 

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[Al D]

From Cooks report, the Columbus statement as translated; "they found a large nut (singular) of the kind belonging to India, great rats and enormous crabs". Remembering that Columbus was employed to find a route to the Far East, including India I'm not sure how much merit a wishful explorers remark would carry.

The study I reference was published September of 2013 as "Coconuts in the Americas" by Authors, Charles Clement, Daniel Zizumbo-Villarreal, Cecil Brown, Alessandro alves-Pereira and Hugh Harries. Their conclusion, quote, " It has been clearly established that the Portuguese introduced coconuts to the Cape Verde Islands in 1499, and these supplied the Atlantic Coasts and the Caribbean in the 1500's".

Please read this report Alan, I don't think you will disagree with it.

Cheers, Loki

I am not disputing the introduction of coconuts by the Portuguese in 1499,
I am emphasizing the discovery of coconuts by Columbus in 1492
try as you may, you cannot twist this around, The discovery of coconuts by Columbus PREDATES the introduction of coconut by the Portuguese .

 

[tinpan]

Hi Independent Origins of Cultivated Coconuts Bee B Gunn & Kenneth Olsen Try some real science and not your local rainbow new age book shop TP

 

[lokiblossom]

I am not disputing the introduction of coconuts by the Portuguese in 1499,
I am emphasizing the discovery of coconuts by Columbus in 1492
try as you may, you cannot twist this around, The discovery of coconuts by Columbus PREDATES the introduction of coconut by the Portuguese .

I'm not twisting it around the five scientists are that did the report published in 2013.

"It has been clearly established that the Portuguese introduced coconuts to the Cape Verde Islands in 1499, and these supplied the Atlantic Coasts and the CARIBBEAN in the 1500's",
is an actual quote of their conclusion.

This from "Independent Origins of Cultivated Coconuts 2011, page 5, under heading South Asia, Africa and the Caribbean"
"Historical records indicate that coconut was unknown in the Caribbean and Atlantic Basin until European colonization"

I would think that all of this would require a rethinking of the nut that Columbus discovered!


Cheers, Loki

 

[Al D]

I'm not twisting it around the five scientists are that did the report published in 2013.

"It has been clearly established that the Portuguese introduced coconuts to the Cape Verde Islands in 1499, and these supplied the Atlantic Coasts and the CARIBBEAN in the 1500's",
is an actual quote of their conclusion.

This from "Independent Origins of Cultivated Coconuts 2011, page 5, under heading South Asia, Africa and the Caribbean"
"Historical records indicate that coconut was unknown in the Caribbean and Atlantic Basin until European colonization"

I would think that all of this would require a rethinking of the nut that Columbus discovered!


Cheers, Loki

You seem to be seriously confused, come back when you can think clearly

 

[lokiblossom]

You seem to be seriously confused, come back when you can think clearly

I thought you liked stuff like facts and proof!

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

I thought you liked stuff like facts and proof!

While on the matter of "stuff like facts and proof", when the coconut arrived in the New World does not provide the "stuff like facts and proof" that the Templars ever sailed to Nova Scotia and Oak Island, and is the weakest foundation of the premise you keep pushing claiming that they made landing.

 

[Al D]

While on the matter of "stuff like facts and proof", when the coconut arrived in the New World does not provide the "stuff like facts and proof" that the Templars ever sailed to Nova Scotia and Oak Island, and is the weakest foundation of the premise you keep pushing claiming that they made landing.

To add to this, there is no consensus as to the fibre being coir, other experts stated that it was Manila Hemp, and another stated it was eel grass.
the whole argument about the coir is moot because there is no indication which species it is. Not to mention that there is documented report as to there being coconuts in the Americas when Columbus arrived, evidence which some promoters of bogus theories and disinformation choose to conveniently ignore.

 

[Al D]

And, if the fiber material proves to something other than coir, this would throw the whole series of C14 dating out the window, as none of it would be applicable because, as stated in numerous letters, every facility that tested the material did so under the impression that it was coir which means that the C14 uptake rate applies only to coir and cannot be used with any other material subjected to C14 dating

 

[lokiblossom]

While on the matter of "stuff like facts and proof", when the coconut arrived in the New World does not provide the "stuff like facts and proof" that the Templars ever sailed to Nova Scotia and Oak Island, and is the weakest foundation of the premise you keep pushing claiming that they made landing.

It does to me and that is all that matters to "me"!

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

To add to this, there is no consensus as to the fibre being coir, other experts stated that it was Manila Hemp, and another stated it was eel grass.
the whole argument about the coir is moot because there is no indication which species it is. Not to mention that there is documented report as to there being coconuts in the Americas when Columbus arrived, evidence which some promoters of bogus theories and disinformation choose to conveniently ignore.

Columbus reported seeing one nut that looked like an Indian type and he was employed by people who expected him to find India.

All of the recent "scientific" studies show that coconuts did not exist in the Atlantic Basin before 1499, hence you at least lost this discussion.

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

It does to me and that is all that matters to "me"!

Which explains why amateur and quasi historian's are not accepted by the professional academic history community who depend on actual cross collaborated documentation for proof, instead of blind belief built upon bundling unrelated random facts into an alternative version of history that lack a real factual foundation.

 

[Al D]

Columbus reported seeing one nut that looked like an Indian type and he was employed by people who expected him to find India.

All of the recent "scientific" studies show that coconuts did not exist in the Atlantic Basin before 1499, hence you at least lost this discussion.

Cheers, Loki

LMAO, The narrowest point which separates the Pacific from the Caribbean basin is only 30 miles, an easy trip for natives trading with their neighbors.
the only thing I lost in this discussion was the remaining little respect I had for your opinion,

 

[LouMiller]

Which explains why amateur and quasi historian's are not accepted by the professional academic history community who depend on actual cross collaborated documentation for proof, instead of blind belief built upon bundling unrelated random facts into an alternative version of history that lack a real factual foundation.

Agree !!! I am still waiting on Loki to provide proof that any coconut fibers must be attributed to the templars , as well as proof that there were no coconuts on the east coast prior to his 1499 date he keeps claiming.

 

[lokiblossom]

LMAO, The narrowest point which separates the Pacific from the Caribbean basin is only 30 miles, an easy trip for natives trading with their neighbors.
the only thing I lost in this discussion was the remaining little respect I had for your opinion,

Ow, that hurts!

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

I'm not twisting it around the five scientists are that did the report published in 2013.

"It has been clearly established that the Portuguese introduced coconuts to the Cape Verde Islands in 1499, and these supplied the Atlantic Coasts and the CARIBBEAN in the 1500's",
is an actual quote of their conclusion.

This from "Independent Origins of Cultivated Coconuts 2011, page 5, under heading South Asia, Africa and the Caribbean"
"Historical records indicate that coconut was unknown in the Caribbean and Atlantic Basin until European colonization"

I would think that all of this would require a rethinking of the nut that Columbus discovered!


Cheers, Loki

Here is scientific proof that coconuts were not grown in the Atlantic Basin prior to 1499. Whether or not some native carried one across Panama, put it in his canoe and took it 700 miles to San Salvador is questionable but certainly possible. It is also possible
that Columbus mentioned the "nut" he allegedly found to indicate to his employers that his voyage to the Far East was successful.

If any critics would actually investigate the studies they would see that coconuts have to be cultivated to survive, which is what did not happen in the Atlantic Basin according to the reports.

The purpose of this discussion was to show how the fibres arrived on Oak Island. In the very beginning of the Oak Island story it was mentioned that they could have drifted there on sea currents but more recent proof of their not existing in the Atlantic Basin by several scientific studies has put that theory to rest.

I don't have proof that it was Templars who brought the fibre in question to Oak Island only evidence and a premise.

Cheers, Loki

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Coconuts do not "have to be cultivated". They occur naturally through their own propagation along shorelines.

To reach inland groves they must be cultivated. But not along the high tide lines.

 

[ECS]

...I don't have proof that it was Templars who brought the fibre in question to Oak Island only evidence and a premise.

With that stated, Loki, its time to move on from coconut coir =Templars on Oak Island.

 

[lokiblossom]

Coconuts do not "have to be cultivated". They occur naturally through their own propagation along shorelines.

To reach inland groves they must be cultivated. But not along the high tide lines.

Which is what I should have written, the studies do mention that they can grow along shorelines but its not common. If a suitable for harvest crop is wanted they need to be cultivated

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

With that stated, Loki, its time to move on from coconut coir =Templars on Oak Island.

Oh, for sure, whatever you say. What am I allowed to mention, could you make a list? Perhaps you would like to change the title of the thread?

Cheers, Loki