The Lost Doc Thorne Mine - was it the same mine of Jacob Waltz?

[coazon de oro]

All,

From what I recall, Waltz wanted a drywasher because they were losing too much gold from the mine they were working.

It wouldn't be wise to tell anybody, even a friend, where he was mining. Sending everyone to the Iron Mountain area would be the smart thing to do. Some are still heading that way.

If Waltz was really a prospector, he of all people would know that a miner would never find his mine, meaning it's not in a known mineralized area.

Homar

 

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[Oroblanco]

Is anyone on here looking for this and think they will find it or evidence of it?

I can assure you that a good number of the members here are looking or have looked for the mine, and some evidence has been found over the years. Things like arrastras, caches of sandals, camp sites, a cast iron frying pan with a hole through it (punched by a pick, by an angry Indian warrior to "kill" it and make it useless) among other things. I am confident that yet more evidence will be found, and that some day someone will find the mine that Jacob Waltz got his gold from.

I will go even farther out on a limb here (and I know plenty will disagree with me on this too but it is my opinion) but I believe that at least one person actually found the mine of Jacob Waltz - namely Walt Gassler. Gassler tried to get his friends Bob Corbin and Tom Kollenborn to go with him to see the mine as he told them he had finally figured it out and found it, but they were unable to accompany him. Gassler had his wife drop him off at the trail head, telling her that he would be out in three days time, and when the 3 days had elapsed, he did not show up. He was found dead on the trail near Charlebois spring, of natural causes. Later, a man claiming to be Walt Gassler's son turned up asking for Gassler's papers, and showed a piece of ore to Tom Kollenborn that Tom said looked very much like it was a match for Dutchman ore, and also said that he got it from his father's backpack. The backpack was listed among the items found with Gassler's body, but vanished. I believe that Walt Gassler found the Lost Dutchman mine, and died before he could tell anyone where it was.

On the drywasher - I too think that Waltz used it to trace back the gold to find the source lode, and not so much for mining, yet who really knows? We were not there with him so can't say for sure.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[coazon de oro]

Howdy Roy,

At least one of the well known clues tells me that the Lost Doc Thorne Mine is not the LDM. "No cowboy will ever find my mine". I believe this means you can't get to the mine on horseback. If the Apache took Doc Thorne blindfolded to the gold, it is clearly a different mine.

Homar

 

[coazon de oro]

Howdy Roy,

I forgot to mention that one of the other more popular clues left by Waltz says, "no miner will ever find my mine". This is telling me that he did not find the mine by prospecting, ruling out the drywasher.

Homar

 

[markmar]

Howdy Roy,

At least one of the well known clues tells me that the Lost Doc Thorne Mine is not the LDM. "No cowboy will ever find my mine". I believe this means you can't get to the mine on horseback. If the Apache took Doc Thorne blindfolded to the gold, it is clearly a different mine.

Homar

Homar

This clue maybe means how the mine is not in a pasture region .

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd morning Marius, you posted _>this clue maybe means how the mine is not in a pasture region .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Very few mines are my frend, but you have the correct idea.

Don jse de La Mancha

 

[Cubfan64]

Is anyone on here looking for this and think they will find it or evidence of it?

Heck, everyone here is a treasure hunter to some degree, so I suspect some are looking for it, some think they'll find it, and some hope to do research and find evidence of it

 

[sgtfda]

Heck, everyone here is a treasure hunter to some degree, so I suspect some are looking for it, some think they'll find it, and some hope to do research and find evidence of it

And some find other things while looking. Old Jake may have had more than one spot. All prospectors do. Some spots are better than others. I know one thing. Witnesses screw things up. Seen it many times in court cases. 5 people will hear a statement and the all remember it in different ways. You are relying on hearsay with the Dutchman clues. They are not written in stone. It is a big mistake to think that they are. Reminds me of a old guy I know who found a couple gold bars. When you talked to him he would make statements like Jakes. Clouded truth , they can't help themselves. Keep you on the hook. What else does a old dying man have to keep a good thing going. It is my opinion to this point the clues are just that clouded truth.

 

[Springfield]

And some find other things while looking. Old Jake may have had more than one spot. All prospectors do. Some spots are better than others. I know one thing. Witnesses screw things up. Seen it many times in court cases. 5 people will hear a statement and the all remember it in different ways. You are relying on hearsay with the Dutchman clues. They are not written in stone. It is a big mistake to think that they are. Reminds me of a old guy I know who found a couple gold bars. When you talked to him he would make statements like Jakes. Clouded truth , they can't help themselves. Keep you on the hook. What else does a old dying man have to keep a good thing going. It is my opinion to this point the clues are just that clouded truth.

If all treasure hunters would think like cops, they would learn human nature above all else. Next comes logic. Then details.

 

[sgtfda]

It's lesson don't believe everything you hear. It can send you off on the wrong path. It's a common Thunter error. I've seen it. One site all the stories put a site on a mountain. Guys searched it for years. The true site was the next mountain over. I worked that area and found artifacts from the incident. A friend found some gold.

 

[Tnmountains]

I can assure you that a good number of the members here are looking or have looked for the mine, and some evidence has been found over the years. Things like arrastras, caches of sandals, camp sites, a cast iron frying pan with a hole through it (punched by a pick, by an angry Indian warrior to "kill" it and make it useless) among other things. I am confident that yet more evidence will be found, and that some day someone will find the mine that Jacob Waltz got his gold from.

I will go even farther out on a limb here (and I know plenty will disagree with me on this too but it is my opinion) but I believe that at least one person actually found the mine of Jacob Waltz - namely Walt Gassler. Gassler tried to get his friends Bob Corbin and Tom Kollenborn to go with him to see the mine as he told them he had finally figured it out and found it, but they were unable to accompany him. Gassler had his wife drop him off at the trail head, telling her that he would be out in three days time, and when the 3 days had elapsed, he did not show up. He was found dead on the trail near Charlebois spring, of natural causes. Later, a man claiming to be Walt Gassler's son turned up asking for Gassler's papers, and showed a piece of ore to Tom Kollenborn that Tom said looked very much like it was a match for Dutchman ore, and also said that he got it from his father's backpack. The backpack was listed among the items found with Gassler's body, but vanished. I believe that Walt Gassler found the Lost Dutchman mine, and died before he could tell anyone where it was.

On the drywasher - I too think that Waltz used it to trace back the gold to find the source lode, and not so much for mining, yet who really knows? We were not there with him so can't say for sure.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

Well I hunt many treasures also including gold but killed skillets and piles of sandals? I hope that members that live close enough or hunt for it find it and other members do not distract from the facts, Many people vanish and die doing what they like and it is not uncommon for the un prepared to end up in serious trouble and die from their efforts.
Be safe .

 

[markmar]

Roy

I believe Ruth and Gassler were very close to LDM but they didn't find it . I believe Gassler went to another mine , in Black Mountain ( p1 in the below map ) . Maybe he have used the clue which says how from above the mine you can see the Miners Needle . Of course from this mine could seen Four Peaks and from above the Weaver's Needle too . This mine incidentally fit with my stone tablets theory . To refresh your memory about my stone tablets theory , is how in the horse stone map , the right horse's ear is Hieroglyphic Canyon and in the five dots , the LDM is very close to the middle ( p2 in the map below ) of the three continuous dots . This five dots are mines . But the three continuous dots ( p1 , p2 and p3 )are used too in the the stone trail map ( the Xs ) like gold cache caves with the the end of the trail to represent the big gold cache cave ( Someo Montana mine ). I believe how the cache caves ( the Xs ) are not in the mines but somewhere very close to them .
In the map below I show the dots location like in my theory , and with the red dot where the Gassler's body was found and with the Bright blue where the Ruth's body was found . With dark blue is the place where the Ruth's head was found .
I believe Ruth have located the LDM region with the help of Perfil map , but remained to find it .
I believe Ruth and Gassler were both in the heart of the gold placers , ever IMO .
Somebody said ( Joe ? ) how he saw a map which shows how the gold placers run NW to SE in Arizona and in the Superstitions . This statement fit with the course of the dots in my theory . This could seen better if I had put the location of Wagoner mine which is in the same direction NW to SW with the middle dots .

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

sandals distract from the facts?
there are few verifiable FACTS associated with the Dutchman...

a stash of sandals will tell an experienced person who was in the area..."KILLED" skillets would be the one proof that Jacob wasn't pushing a myth on people.

pots and other goods, were "killed"... one hole in a perfect piece, to follow the owner into the next world...that means that the apache had some respect for Jacobs partner, if not for him...

meaningless? not hardly.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Marius, I will take issue with your post-->the gold placers run NW to SE in Arizona and in the Superstitions
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortuntely placers are formed by water courses, so they can run any direction in the supers, and do..

However we now know that the mine is at the base of a cliff facing west.

Don Jose de La Mancha.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

Is anyone on here looking for this and think they will find it or evidence of it?

I have walked past the Dutchman mine a thousand times...like a lot of other people.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

PiPiWP. g'd afternoon. I agree they can be most imformative, Many do destroy a vessel to release it's spirit.

For some reson I cannot post a "like" on your post ?? but consider it done.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[markmar]

Don Jose

My apologise . In my previous post , I wanted to say gold lodes and not gold placers .

 

[Oroblanco]

Don Jose

My apologise . In my previous post , I wanted to say gold lodes and not gold placers .

Marius I think your point about the locations of the gold placers in Arizona being in a "belt" that runs NW to SE is valid, which was what I got from your post, not that each individual placer must be running literally that direction. Likewise for the gold lodes, with few exceptions for either type. What is curious is the apparent "gap" in the gold belt of Arizona, right where the Superstitions Wilderness Area sits.

Oroblanco

 

[chlsbrns]

Marius I think your point about the locations of the gold placers in Arizona being in a "belt" that runs NW to SE is valid, which was what I got from your post, not that each individual placer must be running literally that direction. Likewise for the gold lodes, with few exceptions for either type. What is curious is the apparent "gap" in the gold belt of Arizona, right where the Superstitions Wilderness Area sits.

Oroblanco

Yes I was curious so I did 5 minutes of research. No gold!

http://mines.az.gov/DigitalLibrary/usbm_mla/USBM_MLA_136-82.pdf

It also appears by the report it is the thousands of people tearing up the wilderness looking for the LDM that is the cause of such heavy regulation that absolutely forbids mining in the Federal Wilderness areas such as the area where the bogus Waltz map and story lead people to, the Superstitions!

 

[cactusjumper]

sandals distract from the facts?
there are few verifiable FACTS associated with the Dutchman...

a stash of sandals will tell an experienced person who was in the area..."KILLED" skillets would be the one proof that Jacob wasn't pushing a myth on people.

pots and other goods, were "killed"... one hole in a perfect piece, to follow the owner into the next world...that means that the apache had some respect for Jacobs partner, if not for him...

meaningless? not hardly.

Donald,

Good post. You are quite correct about the Apache reasons for destroying something as simple as a frying pan, or a basket.

On the other hand, the story of the frying pan is just........a story. I doubt it has a single strand of authenticity.

I also doubt that anyone would be so foolish as to ban you for that post.

Take care my friend,

Joe