THE LOST TREASURE OF THE LA MADALENA

[Cablava]

Nigel Pickford & Potter etc. are in the business of selling books, their infomation in normally just general or hearsay. Pick a target and get into the library's and archives and look yourself, its a great pass time and you never know what you may find.

Most of the collective shipwreck treasure books just give a few lines on each wreck, more often in accurate but lets know of teh treasure

I do not know how deep your target is but I do know the following.

Deep diving is about equipment, experience, knowledge and backup if you do not have that then do not think about it. I can personally name more than a dozen friends who have died at depth, a lot more who are invalided from diving related accidents, all comercially with all the equipment in the world. I have said it before deep diving does not belong in the amatur diving world. Me I have bad knees but I am still here after my first dive in 1969, last dive 2003. Over 5 years spent in saturation and god knows how many air dives

I hope your wreck is in less that a 100ft as there is not much after that without spending a fortune to be safe and productive.

Not to put a damper on things, its just when it gets deep it gets expensive and risky and as in the Wildrake accident that killed Skip Guthrie and Victor Guile in the late 77/78's very politcal.

 

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[Cablava]

Back in the late 70's DSV's like the Wildrake cost about 30,000 pounds sterling every day they were on site just to put one diver on the bottom 24 hours per day, It was not possible so the bell turn around's were hectic to say the least.

Incidentally the Wildrake (launched in 1977) was still working in Brazil just a couple of years ago under the name of Felinto Perry-K11 where she has been since I last saw her outside my office window in Esbjerg in the early to middle 80's (I wish I kept a journal I could have written a great series of books)

 

[Land-Sea]

Thanks Cablava. This wreck has recently been tugging at me to find out more. I do understand the expenses with the "deep," as I have a friend that was involved in one. Perhaps in this great age of new discoveries something will come along to bring those costs down eventualy. In the meantime, I will be hitting the research. I sure appreciate your comments. Yes... you should have kept a journal! Begineers (like me) need to read as much as posible about the "real" aspects of the hunt and discovery and I for one would have bought the books.

 

[Claudio]

Mr. Bob Marx has a lot of fantasy. In 1563 any Magdalena, captain Cristóbal Rodríguez shipwrecked or it disappeared. Mr. Marx has feather and ink easiness but "he never writes books" mentioning the source of information, and the few times that he made it, it's very questionable..

 

[TreasureDiverMD]

Thank you Claudio. There are a few of this in the business that know this is a fact. Unfortunately some are taken in by the illusions painted by some. Then there those who like to be associated with the illusionists so as to maybe feel important about themselves. Marx and the Magdalena are about as straight as Marx and the Monitor, or Marx and parto Bello. Link is the man who took him in and now Marx claims all the credit for Links work. Hopefully there are those that will not be taken in by supposed Knighted people and people who's claim to fame rides on the backs of others.
TreasureDiverMD

 

[Rustys Mate]

Thanks for all the info everyone. I have not been around in a few weeks and had a lot of reading to catch up on.
I am not experienced enough to go La Madelena. I was hoping to find it though, and maybe get a finders fee.

 

[DiverBarone]

Thanks for all the info everyone. I have not been around in a few weeks and had a lot of reading to catch up on.
I am not experienced enough to go La Madelena. I was hoping to find it though, and maybe get a finders fee.

I have the know how and the dive equipment to dive deep real deep. So who want's to go find the La Madelena it is off Cape Canaveral and I have a felling I know where.

Barone OUT!

 

[Bill]

Apparently you have not gotten the picture. THERE IS NO "MADALENA, MAGDALENA" that sank off of Florida in 1563.

 

[Vox veritas]

I researched very thoroughly 1563 by several shipwrecks (see my book http://www.amazon.com/Galleons-Sunken-Treasure-Claudio-Bonifacio/dp/1450724760/?tag=treasurenet01-20 Chapter 1563.)
No Magdalena sank in Florida or nearby.
Cheers VV

 

[DiverBarone]

I researched very thoroughly 1563 by several shipwrecks (see my book http://www.amazon.com/Galleons-Sunken-Treasure-Claudio-Bonifacio/dp/1450724760/?tag=treasurenet01-20 Chapter 1563.)
No Magdalena sank in Florida or nearby.
Cheers VV

well here is something I found but there are a lot of wreaks off Cape Canaveral http://books.google.com/books?id=6j...&resnum=4&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[FISHEYE]

A friend of mine that owned a scuba shop had a visit by 2 grubby looking shrimper guys.They dropped a 10 pound gold ingot on his desk and told him they wanted to take a scuba course to dive to 400 feet.They pulled the gold ingot up in their shrimp net somewhere xxx miles off the east coast of florida.My friend explained to them that they would have to take a scuba course,then work their way up to the advanced technical diving course to dive that deep.Plus he offered to do the diving for them for a cut.They left and he never heard from them again.

 

[stevemc]

Shrimping is usually done at 100' or so. At least on this coast. If there is no Madalana or Magdalena, there are surely a bunch of other wrecks out there. I dive 100' all day long. Actually I usually dive 150' or so all day long, usually 8-10 dives a day, with sometimes long decos. 100' depth is not out of a regular OW divers realm, but should be dove with Nitrox, a pony bottle, and a Nitrox computer or 2. And if diving all day at deeper depths like me, Helitrox in the main tank, nitrox for that depth in a pony, and a richer O2 nitrox for scrubbing, and maybe a hang bottle of pure O2, or if you are real careful a pony of pure O2 and you will need a 3 gas computer so you can account for helium and changing bottles on the same dive. I usually use low pressure 120 or 130 steel tanks that are over filled, to have around 150 to 160 cubic feet of gas. That allows for longer down times and enough for longer decos, but the deco bottle takes care of that, and sometimes a second or third dive, if careful. I bring a whip to trans fill too.

 

[signumops]

Yes, there are a lot of wrecks around Cape Canaveral, many that are very old, including, according to Hawkins, the Mexican plate fleet of Menendez fame.

The guy who supposedly found the bronze cannon was Frank Brawley. I worked with him in the offshore oilfields and on several salvage jobs around the Cape. He passed away several years ago. I doubt he found the bronze cannon.

I think that Luis Comacho put the Magdelena to rest with his research in Panama. There is also such a vessel sunk along Ecuador's coast in the 1600's which was never found by the Spaniards. You can read about it in the Ringrose Waggoner, however it is the Madelina/Madelena.

Lastly, if Claudio Bonifacio could not find it in the archives, I'd put my money on it as non-existent.

 

[DiverBarone]

Shrimping is usually done at 100' or so. At least on this coast. If there is no Madalana or Magdalena, there are surely a bunch of other wrecks out there. I dive 100' all day long. Actually I usually dive 150' or so all day long, usually 8-10 dives a day, with sometimes long decos. 100' depth is not out of a regular OW divers realm, but should be dove with Nitrox, a pony bottle, and a Nitrox computer or 2. And if diving all day at deeper depths like me, Helitrox in the main tank, nitrox for that depth in a pony, and a richer O2 nitrox for scrubbing, and maybe a hang bottle of pure O2, or if you are real careful a pony of pure O2 and you will need a 3 gas computer so you can account for helium and changing bottles on the same dive. I usually use low pressure 120 or 130 steel tanks that are over filled, to have around 150 to 160 cubic feet of gas. That allows for longer down times and enough for longer decos, but the deco bottle takes care of that, and sometimes a second or third dive, if careful. I bring a whip to trans fill too.

Too much gear on you when you are trying to work. Surface supplied Air or tri mix is the way to go you can do in water Decompression and have Comm's with diver so you know what he is doing at all times, diver can work and top side can run the dive that is how you work under water.

You go down there with all that gear and have to run your own dive checking your computers and making sure you are alright all the time you are spending more time messing with gear then getting the job done, tech diving is for sight seeing not working.

 

[stevemc]

Actually I am working, I do commercial spearfishing. It is hard work, not as hard as some, but hard work. Sometimes it gets real hard when fighting with big fish, dealing with sharks, and other problems. I do have a hookah when working shallower waters. The only problem with surface supplied at that depth is its just air. If I was on surface supplied at those depths, I would also have at least a pony escape bottle, preferablly a scrub/deco bottle too, and of course a computer or 2. At 150' you dont have much time on air, plus the next dives would be nothing. And your decos would be bad too, and you also have the worry of DCS and the problems of nitrogen narcosis, which with air is about always to some extent, less with nitrox and almost nonexistant with helitrox. Friends of mine do tech shipwreck salvage-getting artifacts and bottles, with all I listed, but mainly with CC rebreathers instead of OC main tanks but using UW scooters. They go as deep as 400' or so. That is work in way, but they have scooters to shoot down and all around, where I just use my fins. You have probably seen some of them on the History channel.

 

[old man]

Looks like the below link is what started this whole Post. Sounds like it should be put under Ghost Ships that don't exist.

http://www.treasurelore.com/florida/florida_treasure.htm


Gold emerald cross found by Teddy Tucker off Bermuda.

• In 1563, the 250 ton galleon, “La Madalena,” commanded by Capt. Cristobel Rodriquez, was returning to Spain from Veracruz, Mexico and Havana. She was cast up on a shoal during a bad storm and of the 300 odd souls aboard her, only 16 survived in the small-boat. At the time she carried over 50 tons of silver in bullion and specie (coins), 170 boxes of worked silver (like candle sticks, plates, etc.), 1,110 pounds of gold in small ingots and jewelry, plus other valuables belonging to passengers. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, all of her cannon were bronze. This makes finding her more difficult as a magnetometer can only detect ferrous metals. Hopefully she went down with some of her iron anchors still aboard. The good side is that bronze cannon from this period, depending on the amount of ornamentation and markings on them, can bring as much as $30,000 each and she carried 28 of them. Six months after being lost a salvage vessel was sent up from Havana but failed to find any traces of her or her cargo. A shrimp boat snagged into a bronze cannon in the general area she was lost and the gun just happens to date from this period. The gun was sold to a private collector for $15,000 but could have netted twice this amount if sold to a museum or in an auction. Another bronze cannon was also accidentally brought up in a shrimper's net within two miles of the other, but it dated from the mid-1770's and was from another wreck. Within five miles from where both guns were found, a chest of some 3,000 Spanish four and eight real coins, dating between 1748 and 1751 were also accidentally brought up in a shrimper's net.

 

[DiverBarone]

Actually I am working, I do commercial spearfishing. It is hard work, not as hard as some, but hard work. Sometimes it gets real hard when fighting with big fish, dealing with sharks, and other problems. I do have a hookah when working shallower waters. The only problem with surface supplied at that depth is its just air. If I was on surface supplied at those depths, I would also have at least a pony escape bottle, preferablly a scrub/deco bottle too, and of course a computer or 2. At 150' you dont have much time on air, plus the next dives would be nothing. And your decos would be bad too, and you also have the worry of DCS and the problems of nitrogen narcosis, which with air is about always to some extent, less with nitrox and almost nonexistant with helitrox. Friends of mine do tech shipwreck salvage-getting artifacts and bottles, with all I listed, but mainly with CC rebreathers instead of OC main tanks but using UW scooters. They go as deep as 400' or so. That is work in way, but they have scooters to shoot down and all around, where I just use my fins. You have probably seen some of them on the History channel.

I have used DPV's before and have mixed gases for tri mix before and used surface supplied tri mix air at depths of 300+ fsw. Work! you call shooting fish with a scuba tank on work hahaha I call that play time with a check.Talk to me when you have been in SAT at 760 fsw for 15 day's .

 

[FISHEYE]

Vox,

How about a 800 ton ship called the El Grande that sank off the florida coast in the 1500's?

 

[Bill]

Is this what you inquire about?

In 1683, the 700 ton galleon, “Santissima Concepcion,” alias “El Grande,” commanded by Admiral Manual Ortiz Arosemena, heading for Spain after taking on treasures at Porto Bello, Panama; Cartagena, Colombia; Veracruz, Mexico; and making a stop at Havana, was totally destroyed after striking a shallow during a hurricane somewhere below the “Cape.” Of the 500 or more souls aboard her only four reached the coast on debris and made it to St. Augustine with great hardships. She was carrying over 1,800,000 pesos in treasure, the majority of which was silver bullion and specie. Her total gold consisting of bullion, specie and worked gold only weighed at around 1,500 pounds. However, gold was the most common object being smuggled and she probably carried ten times this amount as contraband. She also carried 77 chests of pearls, 49 chests of emeralds, 217 chests of “goods from the Orient,” and other valuables belonging to private persons (passengers). Repeated attempts to locate her were made almost yearly up until 1701. The only treasure ever found was a chest of clothes that washed ashore right after the disaster in which “some 1,500 pesos in unregistered gold jewelry” was discovered by soldiers sent down from St. Augustine. All her cannon were bronze.

Another of Marx's ghost ships.

 

[FISHEYE]

Bill,

If its a ghost ship to you,then why is it on your avatar?I believe its real as i have found a part of that ship thats dated from 1600 to 1690.And a large gold cob was found in the same area.