THE LOST TREASURE OF THE LA MADALENA

[Darren in NC]

Work! you call shooting fish with a scuba tank on work hahaha I call that play time with a check.Talk to me when you have been in SAT at 760 fsw for 15 day's.

Seven posts and you're already putting down a guy I've seen work his a$$ off non-stop. While your work may be impressive, your arrogance is not. I suggest you play it a little nicer when you're the new guy online.

 

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[Bill]

Well now FISHEYE,
You were looking for a 1500's ship called "El Grande". I only asked you if that was the ship you had in mind or Marx's ghost ship.

 

[old man]

DiverBarone, This is a great site for people with all kinds of experience and for some that just like to live vicariously. We all try and just get along. I know for a fact that you aren't the only person here that is a certified Commercial Deep Sea Diver. I've been one since 1972. My first job was in Singapore in 1972. I know for a fact that there is at least one other Commercial Diver on here that has been certified longer then I have. The difference between the other one and myself and you is, that we know that that and $1.50 will get us a cup of coffee.
My point is that we are on here for the fellowship and to get help as well as give it. Also, you never know who may know as much or more then you do. Welcome to TNET and I hope you can add to the forum in a positive way. Hope to see you at the annual picnic this year. We all have something to contribute in this business no matter who we are.

 

[DiverBarone]

[mod]TERMS OF USE VIOLATION

Post Removed.

Read Terms of use if you wish to post here.

http://www.treasurenet.com/terms/[/mod]

 

[cornelis 816]

Diverbarone . Address your posts please . Was this last post meant for Oldman ? If you want to be part of this forum , please dimm your lights a little . Cornelius

 

[Vox veritas]

Vox,

How about a 800 ton ship called the El Grande that sank off the florida coast in the 1500's?

Fisheye
1500's is a long time. I'll try to find this "El Grande" (if it existed).
Cheers VV

 

[comfortably numb]

Work! you call shooting fish with a scuba tank on work hahaha I call that play time with a check.Talk to me when you have been in SAT at 760 fsw for 15 day's.

Seven posts and you're already putting down a guy I've seen work his a$$ off non-stop. While your work may be impressive, your arrogance is not. I suggest you play it a little nicer when you're the new guy online.

You should mind your own mouth first of all Shooting fish off a reef is a real scum bag thing to do any way but since you are a on his side let's talk, Oh maybe you should of read his post(Like I drive underwater scooter you know you maybe saw one one the history channel) what the --deleted--! you little scuba pricks are in no way even ready to step to me. Go blow some bubbles out your ass like you do out your mouth, Oh your new here you only have 7 post now ask me if I give a --deleted-- if I had any or even the fact that you basic scuba diver can go get bent hahahaha you must think your some body. hahahaha

I guess he blew the nice guy thing.

 

[Darren in NC]

I guess he blew the nice guy thing.

The test of a man's character is how he responds when challenged politely. If he's still arrogant and defensive, walk away - don't even respond. (This especially applies to trolls on forums who feed on responses.) If he accepts and tries to clarify his intentions, he can typically be trusted.

As far as the intent of this thread, the La Madalena doesn't have the historical data to warrant a search for her. However, there is much evidence of forgotten/unknown wrecks in that area that might be worth pursuing. The Cape is certainly the final resting place of countless vessels. Some prefer the "see what we find" method. Great. Go for it - it does work at times. I prefer the "research multiple sources, talk to fishermen and then survey" method. 8)

 

[old man]

I guess he blew the nice guy thing.

The test of a man's character is how he responds when challenged politely. If he's still arrogant and defensive, walk away - don't even respond. (This especially applies to trolls on forums who feed on responses.) If he accepts and tries to clarify his intentions, he can typically be trusted.

As far as the intent of this thread, the La Madalena doesn't have the historical data to warrant a search for her. However, there is much evidence of forgotten/unknown wrecks in that area that might be worth pursuing. The Cape is certainly the final resting place of countless vessels. Some prefer the "see what we find" method. Great. Go for it - it does work at times. I prefer the "research multiple sources, talk to fishermen and then survey" method. 8)

Darren I think you've summed it up very well. As I've been told a Commercial Diver is a " Jack of All Trades and Master of None."
Some happen to show their Juvenile Age by the way they respond to others. As my Great Grandfather used to say,
" Too soon we get Old and too Late we get smart." Hopefully, there is a lesson in there somewhere.

 

[stevemc]

DiverBarone, myself and everyone here feels that what you do - deep commercial diving, is something that very few ever do. It is scary, dangerous work, because of the depth and the things that can happen at depth. I do commend you for that. I have been Scuba diving since 1962, and really, I have never just dove for the heck of it. I have dove steady since the first time I started diving. It was always diving for artifacts, working wrecks, spearfishing, lobstering, stone crabbing, cleaning boat bottoms, finding lost bridge pilings, and other things, but never just for looking at stuff. I have never driven a DPV, but my friends, who have been shown diving real deep on wrecks on the History Channel have. Dont cut them down too. I do freedive spearfish too, and can freedive past 100' and stay down and stalk fish at that depth. I have done that in the last month, and way back when I was 16. What I do at less than 200' is dangerous, I have to look out for myself, I am all alone down there, and I have to trust my gauges and computer, and maintain all my own equipment. I check all my mixes prior to dive trip. I do have to work hard and produce, that is work. I dont want to dive the depths you dive to. it is dangerous, and for me 45 minutes is a long deco. So dont think we dont think what you do is nothing. Not many of us ever want to go that deep, ever. But do please be polite here. Darren is a friend, and we have worked together, so he felt he should stick up for me, as I should for him. Fish are caught commercially in many ways, but spearfishing is definetly the most selective, and least bycatch of any method of commercial fishing. In other words only the keepers are killed, and nothing else. I assume you eat fish as most of us do. That is where they come from. Longline, nets, rod and reel or electric reel or spearfishing. We would like your posts here as long as you can be polite, and have decent input. Sorry for a derail, but just trying to maintain things.

 

[OldGold74]

My quick chirp..I have at least 8-12 Commercial divers on staff each year. Most but not all come from a quick school and little knowledge about diving and or working in the water (they get fired or leave). Sat divers are few and far between and even those are not that talented a few are but most not. These are facts like day and night, most cannot tie a decent knot drive a boat or stop talking about themselves, gone are the older days of working divers, now schools ship them out full of dreams of $$$ as for working on shipwrecks, everyone should be entitled tom(providing they feel they are not breaking the law or are comfortable doing so), just try to go about it as best possible with the soundest methods. A deep water wreck, well there is a fine line there and safety costs money. If there is a wreck that shrimpers know about then I am sure eventually with enough persistence you will succeed. First thing is part with money on research and confirm the Ghost ship is real, many researches are on this forum pick your poison you will get facts at some expense then decide on diving or going for beers, all the best to the Scubydoos, Artifact pickers, divers, Trimixyourdrinkers etc etc.
Chris

 

[old man]

stevemc, Personally, I don't think you have to prove yourself to anyone. I also agree with Aquanut, we are being too nice to DiverB. I have seen people get banned for posting language that he has and for attacking others. I think this YOUNG immature person that is full of himself, should find another forum to post on.

 

[Chagy]

The Madelena aka Magdalena did exist and its not a gost ship...How ever she did not sank in 1563 nor was the flag ship of Juan Menendez.....She did sank in 1564 but she was not part of Juan Menendez fleet...Many believe that the Madelena was Juan Menendez flag ship and that it sank in 1563..Juan Menendez flag ship was "La Concepcion" and it did sank in 1563....For many years many researchers have fonfused the Concecion with the Madelena.Royal

Orders reached Pedro Menendez in New Spain in
February, 1563. He was commanded to delay there until May
or June, and then to return via the usual route to Europe.
The King directed Bartolome Menendez to leave immediately
and be back in Spain by the end of April with the Tierra
Firme ships and bullion of Peru. Pedro Menendez did not
obey the order. He determined to sail straightaway from San Juan de Ulua
to Havana, join his brother there, and return to Spain with
the Tierra Firme vessels. Since the lead ships were not in
condition to navigate, Menendez prepared and designated his
own two galleons, Santa Maria and Magdalena and the patache
Santiago as Capitana , Almiranta, and escort. Only his own ships left New Spain, while the others were left behind.

The 5 ships that were lost in 1563 were part of the main body of the New Spain fleet that was commanded by Juan Menendez And the Madalena was not one of them the Madalena was privately owned by Pedro Menendez and brought back to spain among the 3 ships he brought... this can be confirm in AGI Contratacion 5167 and Patronato 19

More proof of it is the fact that her Capt was back in Spain in 1563..
Gonzalo Solis de Menas, in Pedro Menendez de Aviles , de-
scribes the 1563 case in some detail, from a viewpoint
thoroughly sympathetic to his brother-in-law, on pp. 64-70. The
unregistered bar silver was brought by Cristobal Rodriguez Garrucho,
master of Magdalena . Witnesses for the Casa alleged that it
was worth 688 pesos and was intended to be given to one
Diego de Molina by Capt. Diego de Amaya by orders of Pedro
Menendez. This can be confirmed in A.G.I. Justicia 865, No. 1, fol. 1.

So if you all want to know where the Magdalena sank and in what year... here it is…..

In 1564 While the Spanish were failing to discover or counter
the French moves in Florida, the armada of galleons belonging
to Pedro Menfendez moved around the Caribbean with the
Tierra Firme ships. Estaban de las Alas brought San Pelayo,
Santa Clara and Magdalena to Nombre de Dios. On August 13,
they left that port for Cartagena, and, three days later,
Magdalena was wrecked on the Darien coast.

All the best,

Chagy.....

 

[Vox veritas]

The Madelena aka Magdalena did exist and its not a gost ship...How ever she did not sank in 1563 nor was the flag ship of Juan Menendez.....She did sank in 1564 but she was not part of Juan Menendez fleet...Many believe that the Madelena was Juan Menendez flag ship and that it sank in 1563..Juan Menendez flag ship was "La Concepcion" and it did sank in 1563....For many years many researchers have fonfused the Concecion with the Madelena.Royal

Orders reached Pedro Menendez in New Spain in
February, 1563. He was commanded to delay there until May
or June, and then to return via the usual route to Europe.
The King directed Bartolome Menendez to leave immediately
and be back in Spain by the end of April with the Tierra
Firme ships and bullion of Peru. Pedro Menendez did not
obey the order. He determined to sail straightaway from San Juan de Ulua
to Havana, join his brother there, and return to Spain with
the Tierra Firme vessels. Since the lead ships were not in
condition to navigate, Menendez prepared and designated his
own two galleons, Santa Maria and Magdalena and the patache
Santiago as Capitana , Almiranta, and escort. Only his own ships left New Spain, while the others were left behind.

The 5 ships that were lost in 1563 were part of the main body of the New Spain fleet that was commanded by Juan Menendez And the Madalena was not one of them the Madalena was privately owned by Pedro Menendez and brought back to spain among the 3 ships he brought... this can be confirm in AGI Contratacion 5167 and Patronato 19

More proof of it is the fact that her Capt was back in Spain in 1563..
Gonzalo Solis de Menas, in Pedro Menendez de Aviles , de-
scribes the 1563 case in some detail, from a viewpoint
thoroughly sympathetic to his brother-in-law, on pp. 64-70. The
unregistered bar silver was brought by Cristobal Rodriguez Garrucho,
master of Magdalena . Witnesses for the Casa alleged that it
was worth 688 pesos and was intended to be given to one
Diego de Molina by Capt. Diego de Amaya by orders of Pedro
Menendez. This can be confirmed in A.G.I. Justicia 865, No. 1, fol. 1.

So if you all want to know where the Magdalena sank and in what year... here it is…..

In 1564 While the Spanish were failing to discover or counter
the French moves in Florida, the armada of galleons belonging
to Pedro Menfendez moved around the Caribbean with the
Tierra Firme ships. Estaban de las Alas brought San Pelayo,
Santa Clara and Magdalena to Nombre de Dios. On August 13,
they left that port for Cartagena, and, three days later,
Magdalena was wrecked on the Darien coast.

All the best,

Chagy.....

Chagy,
indeed, there were several "Magdalena" in 1563, but some shipwrecked in Florida?
This is the question!
VV

 

[Chagy]

Work! you call shooting fish with a scuba tank on work hahaha I call that play time with a check.Talk to me when you have been in SAT at 760 fsw for 15 day's.

Seven posts and you're already putting down a guy I've seen work his a$$ off non-stop. While your work may be impressive, your arrogance is not. I suggest you play it a little nicer when you're the new guy online.

You should mind your own mouth first of all Shooting fish off a reef is a real scum bag thing to do any way but since you are a on his side let's talk, Oh maybe you should of read his post(Like I drive underwater scooter you know you maybe saw one one the history channel) what the --deleted--! you little scuba pricks are in no way even ready to step to me. Go blow some bubbles out your ass like you do out your mouth, Oh your new here you only have 7 post now ask me if I give a --deleted-- if I had any or even the fact that you basic scuba diver can go get bent hahahaha you must think your some body. hahahaha

If all commercial divers have your attitude I rather be blowing bubbles out my a$$ all day long …..Dude you need to chill……..No one here has offend you….

Have a nice day,

Chagy…..

 

[Chagy]

The Madelena aka Magdalena did exist and its not a gost ship...How ever she did not sank in 1563 nor was the flag ship of Juan Menendez.....She did sank in 1564 but she was not part of Juan Menendez fleet...Many believe that the Madelena was Juan Menendez flag ship and that it sank in 1563..Juan Menendez flag ship was "La Concepcion" and it did sank in 1563....For many years many researchers have fonfused the Concecion with the Madelena.Royal

Orders reached Pedro Menendez in New Spain in
February, 1563. He was commanded to delay there until May
or June, and then to return via the usual route to Europe.
The King directed Bartolome Menendez to leave immediately
and be back in Spain by the end of April with the Tierra
Firme ships and bullion of Peru. Pedro Menendez did not
obey the order. He determined to sail straightaway from San Juan de Ulua
to Havana, join his brother there, and return to Spain with
the Tierra Firme vessels. Since the lead ships were not in
condition to navigate, Menendez prepared and designated his
own two galleons, Santa Maria and Magdalena and the patache
Santiago as Capitana , Almiranta, and escort. Only his own ships left New Spain, while the others were left behind.

The 5 ships that were lost in 1563 were part of the main body of the New Spain fleet that was commanded by Juan Menendez And the Madalena was not one of them the Madalena was privately owned by Pedro Menendez and brought back to spain among the 3 ships he brought... this can be confirm in AGI Contratacion 5167 and Patronato 19

More proof of it is the fact that her Capt was back in Spain in 1563..
Gonzalo Solis de Menas, in Pedro Menendez de Aviles , de-
scribes the 1563 case in some detail, from a viewpoint
thoroughly sympathetic to his brother-in-law, on pp. 64-70. The
unregistered bar silver was brought by Cristobal Rodriguez Garrucho,
master of Magdalena . Witnesses for the Casa alleged that it
was worth 688 pesos and was intended to be given to one
Diego de Molina by Capt. Diego de Amaya by orders of Pedro
Menendez. This can be confirmed in A.G.I. Justicia 865, No. 1, fol. 1.

So if you all want to know where the Magdalena sank and in what year... here it is…..

In 1564 While the Spanish were failing to discover or counter
the French moves in Florida, the armada of galleons belonging
to Pedro Menfendez moved around the Caribbean with the
Tierra Firme ships. Estaban de las Alas brought San Pelayo,
Santa Clara and Magdalena to Nombre de Dios. On August 13,
they left that port for Cartagena, and, three days later,
Magdalena was wrecked on the Darien coast.

All the best,

Chagy.....

Chagy,
indeed, there were several "Magdalena" in 1563, but some shipwrecked in Florida?
This is the question!
VV

Claudio,

No Magdalena sank in 1563 in Florida....At least that I know off
Nor there was a Magdalena or Madelena lost in Juan Menendez fleet..

Saludos y un fuerte abrazo,

Chagy....

 

[Vox veritas]

Vox,

How about a 800 ton ship called the El Grande that sank off the florida coast in the 1500's?

Fisheye
1500's is a long time. I'll try to find this "El Grande" (if it existed).
Cheers VV

So where I have information, these are the "Grande" that wrecked or disappeared:
1523: Nazare Grande (between Mozambique and Goa)
1558: La Gallega Grande ((High Seas)
1592: Nao Grande de Grillo (Gulf of Mexico)
1596: Jonas El Grande (Galicia, Spain)
1647: San Juan El Grande (Naples, Italy)
1654: Sao Pedro Grande (Terceira Island, Azores)
1765: Santiago el Grande (Bahamas) ghost shipwreck
Cheers VV

 

[scubatreasure]

stevemc, Personally, I don't think you have to prove yourself to anyone. I also agree with Aquanut, we are being too nice to DiverB. I have seen people get banned for posting language that he has and for be attacking others. I think this YOUNG immature person that is full of himself, should find another forum to post on.

I second that Old man, this is a family orientated forum, the language and attacking others has no place here. I haven't posted in a while but felt compelled to speak my mind on this one.

On a thread related note. I just found out that my cousin married a guy who's father was a shrimper, he has tons of maps and info, and money, do shrimpers make that much . Just trying to find the right way to approach him without getting the usual I don't know nothing responce.
Limo Bob

 

[signumops]

Hats off to Chagy and Vox Veritas.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Work! you call shooting fish with a scuba tank on work hahaha I call that play time with a check.Talk to me when you have been in SAT at 760 fsw for 15 day's.

Seven posts and you're already putting down a guy I've seen work his a$$ off non-stop. While your work may be impressive, your arrogance is not. I suggest you play it a little nicer when you're the new guy online.

blah blah blah

But how much treasure have you found?
Just saying