ResearcherMark
Newbie
- Feb 22, 2011
- 3
- 0
I don't believe this particular Madalena sank, as the ship arrived in Sevilla, somewhat late, overdue, but she arrived.
THE LOST TREASURE OF THE LA MADALENA
- Thread starter Rustys Mate
- Start date
Don't know about the La Madalena but here is some info on the 1563 shipwreck of the La Concepcion from Robert Davidsson
in his book Indian River: A History of the Ais Indians in Spanish Florida
Stefano de Rojomonte of Paris was a Fort Caroline colonist who joined a mutiny against
Laudonniere in 1564 and sailed off with one of the French ships to attack Spanish shipping. He was captured by the Spanish and taken to Havana for questioning. One of the topics discussed in
the interview was the fate of Juan Menendez and the "Concepcion". His testimony was housed in
the Archives of the Indies in Seville (Bennett 1964: 97-98).
When asked if he had knowledge of the loss the "frigate," Rojomonte replied: "It may have
been more or less a year that on the coast of Florida three ships of Christians had been lost which
had carried much silver and that the Indians had helped with the landing, and that three men with
boats had escaped who are said to be with the Indians of the province (Ais) where the boats had
been lost, and that some say that the Christians who are with them are no more and no fewer, and
that they do not know exactly how many there may be."
The Cuban report to the Council of the Indies, dated Jan 28, 1565, concludes: "It is held to be
very certain that the boats which the Indians (Surruque Ais) had said had been lost on the coast of
Florida are those of Juan Menendez, and that the men who had been among them had done a
great deal to win their friendship, and that it would be easy to find them because of what these
Frenchmen said - that they are near Cape Canaveral" (Bennett 1964: 98).
Since the disappearance of the "La Concepcion" in 1563, there has been a debate as to the
fate of Juan Menendez. Contemporaries of Menendez pointed to Cape Canaveral and Bermuda as
the two most likely shipwreck sites.
In his "Memoirs," Fontaneda wrote: "Other vessels have been lost, among them the armada of New Spain, of which it was said the son of Pedro Menendez was general, for the Indians took a Spaniard that reached the shore whom they found starving. And I saw him alive and talked with him. He told us that they came from New Spain, and were going to Castile; that the general was the son of Pedro Menendez, the Asturian; that he came as a sailor in another vessel; and that the people of neither knew any thing of what had befallen other, until the Indians armed themselves to go to the coast of Ais, when he saw them go and return with great wealth, in bars of silver and gold, and bags of reals, and much clothing" (Fontaneda 1944: 33).
The "Surruque Ais" lived to the north of Cape Canaveral and south of New Symrna.
in his book Indian River: A History of the Ais Indians in Spanish Florida
Stefano de Rojomonte of Paris was a Fort Caroline colonist who joined a mutiny against
Laudonniere in 1564 and sailed off with one of the French ships to attack Spanish shipping. He was captured by the Spanish and taken to Havana for questioning. One of the topics discussed in
the interview was the fate of Juan Menendez and the "Concepcion". His testimony was housed in
the Archives of the Indies in Seville (Bennett 1964: 97-98).
When asked if he had knowledge of the loss the "frigate," Rojomonte replied: "It may have
been more or less a year that on the coast of Florida three ships of Christians had been lost which
had carried much silver and that the Indians had helped with the landing, and that three men with
boats had escaped who are said to be with the Indians of the province (Ais) where the boats had
been lost, and that some say that the Christians who are with them are no more and no fewer, and
that they do not know exactly how many there may be."
The Cuban report to the Council of the Indies, dated Jan 28, 1565, concludes: "It is held to be
very certain that the boats which the Indians (Surruque Ais) had said had been lost on the coast of
Florida are those of Juan Menendez, and that the men who had been among them had done a
great deal to win their friendship, and that it would be easy to find them because of what these
Frenchmen said - that they are near Cape Canaveral" (Bennett 1964: 98).
Since the disappearance of the "La Concepcion" in 1563, there has been a debate as to the
fate of Juan Menendez. Contemporaries of Menendez pointed to Cape Canaveral and Bermuda as
the two most likely shipwreck sites.
In his "Memoirs," Fontaneda wrote: "Other vessels have been lost, among them the armada of New Spain, of which it was said the son of Pedro Menendez was general, for the Indians took a Spaniard that reached the shore whom they found starving. And I saw him alive and talked with him. He told us that they came from New Spain, and were going to Castile; that the general was the son of Pedro Menendez, the Asturian; that he came as a sailor in another vessel; and that the people of neither knew any thing of what had befallen other, until the Indians armed themselves to go to the coast of Ais, when he saw them go and return with great wealth, in bars of silver and gold, and bags of reals, and much clothing" (Fontaneda 1944: 33).
The "Surruque Ais" lived to the north of Cape Canaveral and south of New Symrna.
inletsurf
Full Member
Not long ago I came across an old shrimper trawl hang loran number described as "spanish galleon" off Canaveral. Might have to check it out.
stevemc
Bronze Member
- Feb 12, 2005
- 2,121
- 279
- Detector(s) used
- Whites Surfmaster PI Pro and Whites Surfmaster PI, Minelab Excal NY blue sword. 2 White's Dual field pi, Garrett sea hunter pi II (but don't use it for obvious reasons) 5' x 3 1/2' coil underwater Pi
- Primary Interest:
- Shipwrecks
If you need anybody to help, I will be over with my big boat in another month or so. Might be something there.
inletsurf
Full Member
stevemc said:
Come on up! Worst case scenario we hit some other wrecks in the area and load up on fish.
Chagy
Bronze Member
Finally!!!! Someone got it right…..The wreck everyone is looking for is not the Madelena but La Concepcion (Juan Menendez flagship) As some of you know I have done an intensive research on the 1563 fleet…..
Attila, you are in the right path however the wreck is not in Cape Canaveral….Good luck!!!!
Al the best,
Chagy…….
Attila, you are in the right path however the wreck is not in Cape Canaveral….Good luck!!!!
Al the best,
Chagy…….
Chagy said:
Maybe the fleet was lost off Dominica.
http://www.treasurelore.com/florida/dominica_treasure.htm
William123
Tenderfoot
- Feb 26, 2011
- 8
- 0
The La Madalena treasure is thought to have come from the 1715 Spanish fleet
that went down off the coast of Florida in a storm. Somehow in beaches of florida
http://www.googobits.com/articles/p...s-and-pirate-loot-on-the-florida-beaches.html
that went down off the coast of Florida in a storm. Somehow in beaches of florida
http://www.googobits.com/articles/p...s-and-pirate-loot-on-the-florida-beaches.html
Bill
Full Member
Wrong.
aquanut
Bronze Member
Bonnie,
I don't yet know if this is fact or fiction. but here's an interesting quote:
"report of Don Jo~>ef Isabel del Velo y Campo, admiral of the Spanish fleet and at the time in command of the Spanish galleon La Magdalen. The admiral gave a full account of the loss of this galleon, of the desperate battle, of the tremendous bravery of the Spaniards under his command, and of his own escape with two others by swimming to the island of Trebucino near by. The vessel sank about a mile from the northern extremity of the island, bearing a little east of north from the point of rocks. The report was accompanied by an account of the cargo on board, as nearly correct as his memory and knowledge could serve him to give, and by a like statement of the money and treasure lost, concluding with a pious congratulation that if lost to Spain it at least had not fallen into the hands of Morgan and his murderous hereticos. "
Aquanut
I don't yet know if this is fact or fiction. but here's an interesting quote:
"report of Don Jo~>ef Isabel del Velo y Campo, admiral of the Spanish fleet and at the time in command of the Spanish galleon La Magdalen. The admiral gave a full account of the loss of this galleon, of the desperate battle, of the tremendous bravery of the Spaniards under his command, and of his own escape with two others by swimming to the island of Trebucino near by. The vessel sank about a mile from the northern extremity of the island, bearing a little east of north from the point of rocks. The report was accompanied by an account of the cargo on board, as nearly correct as his memory and knowledge could serve him to give, and by a like statement of the money and treasure lost, concluding with a pious congratulation that if lost to Spain it at least had not fallen into the hands of Morgan and his murderous hereticos. "
Aquanut
Chagy
Bronze Member
How can a 1563 wreck have 1715 treasure 
How ever there were many Madelenas maybe one that wrecked after 1715
GOHO,
3 vessels of the same fleet ended up in Monte Cristi but not the Madelena actually she wrecked in 1565.....
All the best,
Chagy......
How ever there were many Madelenas maybe one that wrecked after 1715
GOHO,
3 vessels of the same fleet ended up in Monte Cristi but not the Madelena actually she wrecked in 1565.....
All the best,
Chagy......
GOHO
Sr. Member
- Apr 13, 2008
- 299
- 35
Thanks Chagy,
Here is another account of a La Magdalena......
In March, 1669, Morgan sacked Maracaibo, Venezuela which had emptied out when his fleet was first spied. He spent a few weeks at the Venezuelan settlement on Lake Maracaibo, torturing the wealthy residents to discover hidden booty.
Returning to Maracaibo, Morgan found three Spanish ships waiting at the inlet to the Caribbean. These war galleons -- the 40 gun flagship Magdalena, the 30 gun Luis, and the 24 gun La Marquesa -- far outclassed anything Morgan had in his motley collection of sloops and converted merchantmen. Furthermore, behind the galleons, the Spaniards had fortified an island in the narrowest stretch of the inlet with cannon and infantry. Maracaibo's governor Del Campo offered to let Morgan go provided the privateers turn over the loot they had taken from the area. He gave Morgan and his men two days to decide their fate. The buccaneers decided to fight.|
At dawn on April 31st, Del Campo awoke to find a half dozen small English ships sailing towards his fleet. He ordered the galleons manoeuver into position and fire a broadside. The Magdalena had barely discharged her first barrage when a small English ship, laden with explosives, crashed into the side of the galleon. A skeleton English crew of twelve men grappled their ship to the galleon, lit several fuses, then jumped over the side and swam for their lives. Behind them the exploding fireship ripped a hole in the side of the Magdalena and flames raced uncontrollably through the galleon. Within minutes Del Campo gave orders to abandon ship.
Here is another account of a La Magdalena......
In March, 1669, Morgan sacked Maracaibo, Venezuela which had emptied out when his fleet was first spied. He spent a few weeks at the Venezuelan settlement on Lake Maracaibo, torturing the wealthy residents to discover hidden booty.
Returning to Maracaibo, Morgan found three Spanish ships waiting at the inlet to the Caribbean. These war galleons -- the 40 gun flagship Magdalena, the 30 gun Luis, and the 24 gun La Marquesa -- far outclassed anything Morgan had in his motley collection of sloops and converted merchantmen. Furthermore, behind the galleons, the Spaniards had fortified an island in the narrowest stretch of the inlet with cannon and infantry. Maracaibo's governor Del Campo offered to let Morgan go provided the privateers turn over the loot they had taken from the area. He gave Morgan and his men two days to decide their fate. The buccaneers decided to fight.|
At dawn on April 31st, Del Campo awoke to find a half dozen small English ships sailing towards his fleet. He ordered the galleons manoeuver into position and fire a broadside. The Magdalena had barely discharged her first barrage when a small English ship, laden with explosives, crashed into the side of the galleon. A skeleton English crew of twelve men grappled their ship to the galleon, lit several fuses, then jumped over the side and swam for their lives. Behind them the exploding fireship ripped a hole in the side of the Magdalena and flames raced uncontrollably through the galleon. Within minutes Del Campo gave orders to abandon ship.
gord
Hero Member
April 31st? Raising flags already!
bwirth1999
Jr. Member
So, Where do you find this info? I have looked at a few books, but nothing with this much detail. Throw a brother a bone.
