The Pearl Ship

anzayounggun

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According to my knowledge, there was a salt mining operation at the bottom of what is now the Salton Sea. You can even go and see an old crane that's fallen over at the water's edge. I doubt an old wooden ship would've been completely disregarded. Even 100 years ago.

yeah a couple buildings also iirc. i think the salinity of the water might destroy some of the ship (last i heard its near 50% more salty than the pacific ocean) but there would be something left i hope. the other issue i have thought about is the silty mud or what-have-you at the bottom of the sea burying the ship(s). that stuff is proably some nasty S**t to dig in let alone breathe if the sea ever dries up. read article a year or so ago about sheriff divers looking for a couples plane that was missing and finding a intact WWII plane. some scary diving though in near pitch black conditions.

PLL sounds like a cool twist in the plot i wish the best in your pursuits and keep us posted. i cant wait to hear more

anyways im glag PLL is posting here again and that the pearl ship legend section is receiving attention
 

Back-of-the-boat

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Hey Gang!
It's been a loooong time since I've been here!!! But I have some good news!!! And to some of you, it may not be believable, but I can guarantee what I'm about to say will be interesting..... My particular take on the lost ship story is that the Jacobson angle is the ONLY yarn that has some teeth to it. This is not to discount any other story, just to me, it's the one I will dig into first, I do believe the Botts angle "could" have something as well though. So I have dug DEEP into this particular story and can tell you that Iturbe is probably not the guy... Sorry.... Since the last time I posted here I have tried to dig into Juan's history and life, and what I can tell you is that there is a Spanish report that says he did sail north and he did see a small river, but never sailed into it... There is proof that he and his ship returned back to port, and believe me, it was not something I wanted to uncover, but facts are facts.... So who could have sailed north? When? Why? and how? By luck, I came in contact with a private collector who told me he was in possession of a recording of Carver's interview discussing his time at the Jacobson ranch, and it took a lot of time and discussion, but I was granted permission to listen to it. No recording can be made, just listen and take notes... While listening to the nearly 4 hour cassette tape, I was in shock when I heard Carver give directions to where the ship was.... I am currently talking to all the land owners, Jacobson's property is now owned by many people and corporations- some not even in the state, about getting permission to locate the ship. But that's another story.. lol During the interview Carver states that the ship was about 50-60 feet long with the side boards about 30 feet in length, and 10-12"s wide and also about 2"s thick. He also stated that the bow was about 6' out of the ground and the stern about 4'. There are more observations but for now those will be kept private.. The odd thing about the tape was that when asked if he thought it was a viking ship he stated, "yeah, but why would that be there". So possibly no Spanish ship??? Well there went a buttload of research!!! Ok, so now with the new news can it be proven, and does it tie in the Botts story as well?
This is where the lengthy research begins, we all know that the Vikings were in Greenland, but could they have sailed as far as Alaska or even California?? Maybe....

View attachment 1343927 View attachment 1343937 View attachment 1343938 View attachment 1343939

The Northwest Passage has been rumored to possibly be a Viking route, but to what extent? Did the Vikings actually make it as far as the Bering Strait or even farther? This idea is still open to some deep discussion in the academic world with no current answer, of course...There also is a window of time during the years 950-1250 when something called the Medieval Warming Period (MWP) was happening. The MWP is a time where the water level could have been from 9-42 feet higher than current sea levels. Making travel by their boats possible, if not probable...

"In some years now, you can do the Northwest Passage almost in a rowboat"
The Vancouver Sun, Jan 30, 2003.


Speaking of boats, the vikings had a boat called the Skuldelev 5, which happens to meet the size that Carver talked about (50-60 feet long), and even held the shields on the side, like the Botts story. Side note -not all Viking ships carried shields on the sides... So we do have a boat, we do have a water level and temperature that would make the trip possible. We even have some strange unidentified cairns located as far as Vancouver Island, just south of Alaska.... Then there is also a story about two ships leaving a Sea of Cortez island and never returning.... Could the Botts ship and the Carver ship be these two long lost Viking boats??? The saga continues.....

One major problem if the ship was or is still in the dunes of Glamis isthat the wood has probably been scrounged for bonfires as the road of wood was lost long ago to that exact thing.Most not all of the off roaders just see wood as fire material not anything else and probably know nothing about the lost pearl ship or viking ship.
 

pegleglooker

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The only boat/ship I found with a connection to Glamis, was a 23 footer that was set on wheels by a guy named Joshua Talbot. Occasionally, you might catch a story about a boat/ship deeply covered with sand, but no real location, or back story....

Btw, I thought you guys/gals might like to see this site Lost Ships of the Desert.

Would love to hear what everyone thinks of it.... Thx!

Adios
PLL
 

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Oroblanco

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If you are looking for more info about the come from afar men of Tiburon Island, you might like this link; Giants of Tiburon Island.... I'll be looking forward to your thoughts and comments... THX!!

GREAT story, THANK YOU for sharing it! Whalers - that could well be a key point that might one day prove the truth behind the legends too. Keep 'em coming buddy!

:coffee2: :coffee2: :coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2:
 

Lucky Eddie

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I've enjoyed looking in on this tale of the pearl ship on and off over recent years!

I thought I'd a my 2c worth for what little its worth.

I've managed a pearl farm and dived / found pearls over the years, so anything pearl related always peaks my interest.

Also the mention of this extensive area of sand also catches my imagination because as a kid i grew up in a location very similar where we had a holiday house by the sea.

We could see the sand dunes from the window of the house & back in the early 60's when i was a kid growing up - there were no dune buggies or motocross bikes etc to race around on the dunes and imperil life.

As a result on days when it was too windy to go down the beach and swim or fish, my mother would give us a cardboard box to flatten out and send us off to the sand dunes to ride the cardboard down the face of the dunes... knowing she could watch us out the window, and we would come home exhausted enough to fall into bed asleep straight after dinner and a bath.

JennyYVG004.jpg


lancelin-sand-dunes-9187803.jpg


Dunes-wide-1DX_9306-400x400.jpg


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These dunes are a mecca of offroad leisure activity also

images


And that for dune buggies, 4wd's, motocross bikes etc - hiring out sand boards for sliding down the dunes and even "sand wake boarding" on a sand board behind 4wd's.

So potential business opportunities besides just mining sand.

What has this to do with the lost pearl ship I hear you asking?

Well these days those dunes are fast disappearing!

Header_Right.jpg


These lime sands are highly sought after by cereal farmers, to neutralize acidity built up in their soils from 100+ years application of super-phosphate fertilizers. Asa result the entiure dunes system is slowly being dug up and trucked out, sold by the road train load, 100's of 60 metric tonne loads every day!

So the sand is fast vanishing!

Isn't this the obvious solution to finding this lost/buried ship?

Just set up a lime sands mining company and let farmers pay you to dig up and ship them and for their grain fields... you will likely make a far bigger windfall out of selling the lime sands for their acid neutralizing properties... AND the bonus is that eventually - you HAVE to dig up the lost pearl ship into the bargain!

Its a win / win solution where you make a $$ squillion selling sand.. and stand to make a small fortune eventually finding pearls!.

Doesn't matter how long it takes, eventually you have to get there in the end...

Mobile dunes are the treasure hunters curse... Lassetters famous lost gold reef downunder - covered up by a large mobile dune system...

Just dig it up and ship it out, when you spread it all out over millions of acres of arable farm lands, to neutralize millennia of acidification of farm soils from application of super phosphate fertilizers - all that sand won't add up to even one inch of extra height on the farm lands...but will improve farm productivity out the wazoo.... but best of all it pays to ship & then spread it all (creating jobs), makes jobs digging it up and profits for the sand mine owner... and at the end of it you get a treasure into the bargain!.

Too easy!

Problem solvered.

Remember me in your last will and testament. :laughing7:
 

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pegleglooker

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If anyone is looking into the De Iturbe angle, and this may have already been mentioned, you might want to get Cardona's book Hydrographic and Geographic Descriptions of Many northern and Southern Lands and Seas in the Indies, Specifically of the Discovery of the Kingdom of California. It was written in 1624 after he returned to Spain, and he clearly states that the type of ship he used was a fragata, or frigate in English. Problem is, the term fragata was used for any type of small warship. Here is Cardona's quote;

Proceeding (from Veracruz) to Acapulco, Cardona began the construction of three frigates, the San Antonio, San Francisco, and San Diego in late 1614.


Anyone know anything more about 17th century frigates that was used for pearl diving?
 

Lucky Eddie

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Feb 9, 2010
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The common misconception about pearls values!

What is a kings ransom of Pearls?

Many imagine a ship chockers full of highly valuable pearls as being the treasure spoken of with this tale.

Reality is back in the 1600's finding natural pearls was hard work and they were few and far between, and even less were well formed round pearls, most were odd shapes, so as a result a FEW well formed large natural round pearls were worth a kings ransom. If you spent 100 years on one of those ships seeking wild pearl - you were restricted to shallow waters and the actual numbers that you'd find were very small.

As a result they were highly valued.

Not so these days... perfectly formed round large aqua cultured pearls are common - so much so that the producers get about $50 each for a good one!.

So what if ANY real value would 400+ year old natural pearls that have been buried under desert sands for 4 hundred years actually have?

The answer is probably not much!. Pearls only shine due to the nacre they are made of and the way it refracts & reflects light. If you lock them away long enough from sunlight and oils from human skin when worn, they actually lose a great deal of their natural lustre & hence value.

Probably by now the only REAL value those pearls might have is historical, because to look at they probably look like white plastic beads, that's if they haven't disintegrated back to white calcified nacre powder thru dry relative humidity of underground storage.

Its a fabulous tale of treasure - don't get me wrong, but we could be talking about maybe a cup full of good pearls that might not even look anything flash these days after 400 years exposure to desert conditions.

I am just scratching my head I guess (as a disinterested foreign observer) as to what the attraction to the tale really is?.

I still reckon the REAL treasure might well be in mining & selling the lime sands to find the lost pearls treasure!
 

pegleglooker

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The common misconception about pearls values!

What is a kings ransom of Pearls?

Many imagine a ship chockers full of highly valuable pearls as being the treasure spoken of with this tale.

Reality is back in the 1600's finding natural pearls was hard work and they were few and far between, and even less were well formed round pearls, most were odd shapes, so as a result a FEW well formed large natural round pearls were worth a kings ransom. If you spent 100 years on one of those ships seeking wild pearl - you were restricted to shallow waters and the actual numbers that you'd find were very small.

As a result they were highly valued.

Not so these days... perfectly formed round large aqua cultured pearls are common - so much so that the producers get about $50 each for a good one!.

So what if ANY real value would 400+ year old natural pearls that have been buried under desert sands for 4 hundred years actually have?

The answer is probably not much!. Pearls only shine due to the nacre they are made of and the way it refracts & reflects light. If you lock them away long enough from sunlight and oils from human skin when worn, they actually lose a great deal of their natural lustre & hence value.

Probably by now the only REAL value those pearls might have is historical, because to look at they probably look like white plastic beads, that's if they haven't disintegrated back to white calcified nacre powder thru dry relative humidity of underground storage.

Its a fabulous tale of treasure - don't get me wrong, but we could be talking about maybe a cup full of good pearls that might not even look anything flash these days after 400 years exposure to desert conditions.

I am just scratching my head I guess (as a disinterested foreign observer) as to what the attraction to the tale really is?.

I still reckon the REAL treasure might well be in mining & selling the lime sands to find the lost pearls treasure!

To me personally, the REAL treasure does not have a monetary value, but to simply find a ship... in the desert... hundreds of years old.. that someone has to confirm who it belong to, is treasure enough. I would love nothing better than to prove that the legend is real... no more no less... Maybe even open up a Lost Ship or treasure museum and enjoy the the rest of my life....
 

Oroblanco

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Well not to try to change anyone's mind about what value the Pearl Ship may or may not still have aboard; but do consider this point. De Iturbe, the captain of this stranded ship (which as I understand was a Caravel, not a frigate, considerably smaller but still could carry tons of cargo and capable of sailing in shallow waters thanks to having a shallow draft) after walking all the way back to Mexico overland, with some of the pearls in pockets and anywhere else they would fit, did make an attempt to organize an expedition to return to the ship for the rest of the pearls. If there were not a fair amount of pearls remaining on the ship, why would he have bothered to even try to organize such a return expedition?

This fact also makes some of the modern claims of people that say they found the pearl ship and got all the treasure out of it, that much more doubtful, for these discoverers never turned up with a large amount of pearls. Now a handful of high quality pearls might well have been a "kings ransom" in de Iturbe's day, but there is reason to think the pearl fishing expedition was quite successful. He had pearl divers and was hunting pearls in what was then virtually a virgin pearl bed for no one had been seeking pearls there before, at least not in a systematic way as he was.

Then there is the story of Anza's mule driver, that found the ship and packed out a load of pearls - he too attempted to return to the ship as he claimed there was MUCH more than he had brought out, the only reason he had limited his load was that he had only the one mule, just as De Iturbe could only carry what they could on their backs and that had to also include camping gear, weapons and food to survive so had to be limited.

From what I have seen of those sands, they are not 'lime' type but are mostly silicious (tiny bits of quartz and quartzite etc) so would not have any value as a lime type soil modifier, nor as an acidifier. This also makes it that much more likely that any pearls would likely survive even to today. The amount of sand would make many lifetimes of work to try to mine out the sands, great idea and shows 'outside the box' thinking to find the pearl ship, but although nice clean sand can bring a fair price, that also requires a large reliable source of clean water (can not be salt, and the sands there have salt in them due to the former presence of sea water) to wash the sands so that would be a major hurdle for any sand mining operation.

So anyway no offense to anyone that believes the ship was found and cleaned out, and for that matter there is a strong possibility that more than one ship is buried in the sands of the Salton Sink region, for not only De Iturbe's pearl ship is likely trapped there but also the English pirate/privateer ship the Content, which should have a large load of captured Spanish silver and even imported China worth a fortune in its own right. Yet even this may not be the total, as that recently posted article points out, there may have been a Viking ship, either exploring or trading or both, that got trapped in the inland sea that appears and dries up periodically through history, also several others including a Portuguese ship, a Dutch pirate ship, even a steamer from the 1800s that MAY have gotten in there due to a violent tidal bore that cast several American vessels well up the Colorado river. Even farther back in time, ancient seafarers from the Mediterranean might have lost a ship there, and some rock inscriptions scattered over the southwest certainly points to some ancient visitors from that region having been present only to vanish.

I am getting carried away here so will close - anyway don't write off the chance that a great treasure may yet lie hidden in the desert sands, still safely packed away in the hold of a lost Spanish ship! Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

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Oroblanco

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Just a post script to that previous post, a detail I neglected to mention but De Iturbe's expedition did not only 'fish' for pearls by the ancient method of sending down pearl divers to bring them up from the sea bottom, he also had coasted along the gulf stopping at a number of Indian settlements, where he also TRADED for pearls. A good number of the pearls obtained by Indians were worthless due to their method of obtaining them (by cooking the oysters, the heat ruining the pearls) this was not the case for all pearls obtained by trading. So the amount of pearls was not due to just pearl diving but also by the efforts of an unknown but possibly large number of Indians that lived along the coast and had amassed pearls which were then traded to De Iturbe, resulting in his having quite a load of them when he found himself stranded in a shrinking inland sea.

Please do continue amigos, and of course all are welcome to disagree with everything I posted.

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anzayounggun

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The old glamis crowd most likely burned the ship where it lay IF they found it. Glamis used to be SUPER rowdy. I don't think it was and if so it stopped when it hit the sand and then was covered by sand again.

Hauling all the sand out would be a massive job I like it if you fund it I'll start right away.. 😉

I agree oro there are most likely more it the Salton sink. Have you all seen the news of earthquake tremblers and discovery of the new fault line under the Salton Sea? Kinda interesting things going on there.

I have my fingers out for looking for another when I get home in November... I'll keep you all posted I'm pretty excited about it
 

Oroblanco

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Good luck and good hunting Anzayounggun - pay no heed to the skeptics and naysayers, keep your eyes peeled and an open mind because you really never know just what you might find! Heck you might find a lost train robbery loot or armored car payroll that has been hidden in the sands, while looking for the lost ship of the desert. And don't forget to come back and tell us of what you found and your adventures!

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Real of Tayopa

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Roy, I might add that the violent storms in the Sea de Cortez, have been known to literally wash entire beds ashore where the Indians gathered them for curiosity if nothing else.
 

rodoconnor

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A guilty pleasure. I watched an episode of Wanted Dead or Alive ,where Josh [ Steve McQueen] is hired to guide some treasure hunters into the desert in search of an old treasure laden ship. No secrets revealed , just a cool 1950s Western.LOL
 

Old Bookaroo

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It's fun watching the old black & white Westerns, from Rawhide to Wagon Train to the great Warner Brothers's series - Maverick remains a classic (first time I watched an episode with our kids they didn't understand what had happened to the color) - and seeing stars of the future (and some from the past).

So many actors got their start on those shows! Rather like Elmore Leonard writing Western stories before he beame famous for his crime novels.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo
 

Oroblanco

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It's fun watching the old black & white Westerns, from Rawhide to Wagon Train to the great Warner Brothers's series - Maverick remains a classic (first time I watched an episode with our kids they didn't understand what had happened to the color) - and seeing stars of the future (and some from the past).

So many actors got their start on those shows! Rather like Elmore Leonard writing Western stories before he beame famous for his crime novels.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

There is an episode of Maverick with the lost desert ship as the subject; it is set in Arizona but still a great episode IMHO.

Please do continue;

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Customx_12

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The value of the pearls isn't in the quality. The value would be that they came from one of the most amazing treasure finds of all time (if the ship exists and were to be found). The demand to own even a single pearl would be immense.
 

Oroblanco

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The value of the pearls isn't in the quality. The value would be that they came from one of the most amazing treasure finds of all time (if the ship exists and were to be found). The demand to own even a single pearl would be immense.

I will help dispose of those pesky "worthless" pearls just to help you out! :laughing7: I am kidding, of course it would be of great historical significance to find the actual ship, no matter what condition it might be in today, and would prove another old "legend" to be based on facts. And agreed, each pearl, if sold with some kind of certificate of authenticity, would be in HIGH demand, heck I know that I would want to buy one!

Please do continue;

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