The Pearl Ship

eldiablo

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The above-referenced petroglyphs, with supporting-evidence photos. 118819454.jpg f60d6680f5a8f4913917cd74a5f4260f.jpg viking-ship-bow.jpg 95371336.jpg wooden-dragon-bow-viking-ship-carved-above-morning-sky-sea-33014130.jpg
 

anzayounggun

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Those petroglyphs look like the ones near blair valley on the mortoes trail. overlooking vallecito in smuggler canyon iirc. they are for female maturity rites if i remember right now i cant find my book on blair right now. now there is a second set that has been found by a few folks that isnt listed by super rad to see in person

Gollum, haha i totally misread your post my bad damn dyslexia. but shortfinger agreed that probably didn't cause the quake but like he said landslides do happen for no apparent reason sometimes
 

eldiablo

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Those petroglyphs look like the ones near blair valley ... they are for female maturity rites if i remember right now i cant find my book on blair right now. now there is a second set that has been found by a few folks that isnt listed by super rad to see in person

Yes, you're correct. They are located on the trail on the eastern side of Blair Valley, which is a little west of Agua Caliente Springs where Myrtle Botts was camping. The "old timer" who wandered into their camp was probably(?) coming from the west (the mountains as opposed to the Salton Sea); i.e., from the general location of the petroglyphs on the trail.

I suppose that the petroglyphs could represent female maturity rites. To me, it sure looks a lot closer to a native tribe member trying to draw a serpent-headed Viking long boat, a mountain range, and the sun setting to the west (on the other side of Blair Valley).

Imagine that the tribe lives near Agua Caliente, or more east / northeast near the Salton Sea. Imagine that the Viking boat was spotted by tribe members somewhere in the range to the west of Blair Valley. With that in mind, where might be a good place for a marker pointing to the west which depicts mountains, sunsets, and serpent boats? Yup!, right where it is. Food for thought.

More pics of the trail and petroglyphs.
 

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gollum

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Eldiablo,

Great Pictograph. In most cultures, this is how East and West are depicted on maps and glyphs:

IMG_0020.JPG

An entire sun with rays is usually meant to show distance or time to travel based on the number of rays of the Sun.

That furthest left Pictograph does actually slightly resemble a Longboat (in the pic, it is upside down with the curved prow on the bottom right) I have made it easier to see the longboat with the prow on the right, and the boat is rightside up now:

vikingjourney.jpg

Now, is it really a longboat? I can't say, but it does require a closer look.

The rest of the Pictograph doesn't look like any female maturity rites. Typically, long lines of repetitive symbols mean a journey and time or distance. I believe that is what the rest of the Pictograph is about.

There are other Petroglyphs in the area that are much more clearly a masted ship. Here is one from a thread I started on this subject:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/pearl-ship/496859-viking-longboat-found-california-mountains.html



Mike
 

anzayounggun

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Eldiablo,

Great Pictograph. In most cultures, this is how East and West are depicted on maps and glyphs:

View attachment 1293622

An entire sun with rays is usually meant to show distance or time to travel based on the number of rays of the Sun.

That furthest left Pictograph does actually slightly resemble a Longboat (in the pic, it is upside down with the curved prow on the bottom right) I have made it easier to see the longboat with the prow on the right, and the boat is rightside up now:

View attachment 1293627

Now, is it really a longboat? I can't say, but it does require a closer look.

The rest of the Pictograph doesn't look like any female maturity rites. Typically, long lines of repetitive symbols mean a journey and time or distance. I believe that is what the rest of the Pictograph is about.

There are other Petroglyphs in the area that are much more clearly a masted ship. Here is one from a thread I started on this subject:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/pearl-ship/496859-viking-longboat-found-california-mountains.html



Mike

that couldnt be a longboat, its upside down and the the rest of the pictograpghs are right side up.

Also

From http://www.petroglyphs.us/photographs_kumeyaay_pictographs_blair_valley_bv.htm

The Kumeyaay people, also referred to as the Ipai, Tipai & Kamia (or Diegueno, which is a Spanish mission designation) inhabited much of the territory encompassed by present day San Diego and Imperial counties and as far south as Ensenada, BC. A few miles south of Ocotillo Wells in the Valecito Mountains of the Anza Borrego Desert. There is an old trail that connects Little Blair Valley with Smuggler Canyon. Along that trail is a large isolated granite boulder bearing about three dozen images painted by the Kumeyaay between 200 and 1000 years ago. The elevation here is about 3100 feet, the summers are hot and the winters mild. This area is dotted with seasonal prehistoric village sites which are identified by bedrock mortars and grinding slicks.

In studying rock art, especially in a ceremonial context, it is important to know something of the practices of the culture that created the images. The Kumeyaay, as well as other southwestern cultures used red as a 'female' color and black as a 'male' color in certain rituals. Neither males or females had exclusive rights to any color, but in some rituals the color used by the initiates seems to be of importance (D. Whitley, 1996). Young pubescent girls entering womanhood, as determined by their first menstrual period, enacted traditional mock procedures in giving birth, and subjected themselves to the process of acquiring a spirit helper. As part of the initiation the girls would ingest a native tobacco concoction to induce hallucination and at the end of their ordeal the initiates would race from their village to the ceremonial site and paint their rock art under the supervision of a shaman. The most appropriate woman's spirit helper was the rattlesnake, hence the profuse number of diamond chains and zigzag lines found at girls puberty initiation sites.

the petroglypgh is a masted ship for sure though
Sorry not to correct everything but this is practically my backyard.
 

gollum

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Okay,

I looked into this a little more, and it seems that boulder is well known, and it has been deciphered.

It is just saying that there are channels in the rocks that direct water to an underground water storage there. What appears might be an upside down Viking Longboat is only a depiction of a shelter. The ladder (and it is a ladder) basically shows that you climb down to "Three Tooth Cave" which is where the runoff water is stored. There is more, but that is basically it.

Mike
 

eldiablo

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1725124_orig.jpg
Okay,

I looked into this a little more, and it seems that boulder is well known, and it has been deciphered.

It is just saying that there are channels in the rocks that direct water to an underground water storage there. What appears might be an upside down Viking Longboat is only a depiction of a shelter. The ladder (and it is a ladder) basically shows that you climb down to "Three Tooth Cave" which is where the runoff water is stored. There is more, but that is basically it.

Mike

Mike

All makes good sense, and could very well be. Just tossing up some food for thought. What I see as the long boat is the pictograph in the middle, with oars extended out (as seen from above). The far left pictograph looks like a scaled-neck serpent head bow of a long boat.

Interestingly, whomever is in charge of Anza-Borrego doesn't appear to know what the symbols mean. As stated in the sign located at the trail head for those particular pictographs:

"Little is known of the origin or meaning of the rock art symbols. Do you have ideas what the symbols might mean?"

Yup, I do. They mean "Viking boat, over that way!" (haha)

El Diablo
 

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eldiablo

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oh, I thought that it meant "This a way". Learn something new evary day - my moto.

Very close! In English, we more commonly say "That a way!" However, you'd know better than I on how to say it in Spanish. I wonder how it's said in Norwegian.

Here are some bronze-age Nordic rock carvings of long boats, for those adventure seekers who might be curious.
 

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Aug 23, 2013
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Here is some thing that might be of interest.

A 1890 newspaper story below....

Sydney Mail and New South Wales Advertiser Saturday 11 January 1890, page 88.jpg

It must of been fairly well known in the US at the time this lost ship of the desert story as it ended up being posted in a Sydney newspaper in Australia in 1890.

Amy
 

whiskyninja

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I want to find the one Gollum is familiar with. Treasure or no treasure, seems like a pretty big deal if it's really there.
 

galenrog

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It is possible that one of the several ships that have been reported over the past few centuries could be on the bottom of the current Salton Sea. The most recent creation was in 1905. For many decades prior the lowest points were a salt marsh surrounded primarily by heavy salt crust over mud, somewhat confirming parts of the story. We likely will not know what is currently on the bottom until at least a few decades after it dries up again.
 

eldiablo

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Here is some thing that might be of interest.

A 1890 newspaper story below....

View attachment 1296826

It must of been fairly well known in the US at the time this lost ship of the desert story as it ended up being posted in a Sydney newspaper in Australia in 1890.

Amy

Thanks Amy, that's interesting.

I found the following sentence of particular interest: "For miles around on every side, the alkali crust that covers the deep, hot, stinging sand is not strong enough to support man or beast."

I lived in Los Angeles for 14 years, and visited the desert numerous times, yet not the Colorado Desert of S. Cal. Do the sands around or south of the Salton Sea have an "alkali crust"? Interesting.

Does anyone here have a photo of those crusts, or the watermarks "...plainly seen some 60 or 70 feet up mountainsides, all around the border"?

Viking long ships were built light, with a fairly wide beam, and reportedly "portaged" over land by manpower when in difficult (no water passage) areas. Thus, it would make a lot of sense that the Viking boat might have been portaged some distance west when the escape route south disappeared, as the Vikings were, in fact, navigators. Then, possibly left abandoned up in the cliffs when the Pacific was viewed miles off or if the crew was massacred by native tribes.

El Diablo
 

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anzayounggun

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Thanks Amy, that's interesting.

I found the following sentence of particular interest: "For miles around on every side, the alkali crust that covers the deep, hot, stinging sand is not strong enough to support man or beast."

I lived in Los Angeles for 14 years, and visited the desert numerous times, yet not the Colorado Desert of S. Cal. Do the sands around or south of the Salton Sea have an "alkali crust"? Interesting.

Does anyone here have a photo of those crusts, or the watermarks "...plainly seen some 60 or 70 feet up mountainsides, all around the border"?



El Diablo

the area they talk about is more on the south side than anything because of the geothermal activity in the area the ground is most like that. but all around the lake or inland sea is crusty and mud. the surrounding mountains are stained from ancient water marks but they appear higher because of lifting of the surrounding area and settling of the floor of the lake(the area covers part of the san andreas fault line, which when covered with water increases freq. of earthquakes/land shifts)sorry i cant figure how to post the pictures but a simple google search will pull up tons of photos. (NOT trying to be rude) the average depth is something like 45ft so as it starts drying im presonally hoping cool things start poking out of the water ie WW2 planes or even cooler pearl ships
 

pegleglooker

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Hey Gang!
It's been a loooong time since I've been here!!! But I have some good news!!! And to some of you, it may not be believable, but I can guarantee what I'm about to say will be interesting..... My particular take on the lost ship story is that the Jacobson angle is the ONLY yarn that has some teeth to it. This is not to discount any other story, just to me, it's the one I will dig into first, I do believe the Botts angle "could" have something as well though. So I have dug DEEP into this particular story and can tell you that Iturbe is probably not the guy... Sorry.... Since the last time I posted here I have tried to dig into Juan's history and life, and what I can tell you is that there is a Spanish report that says he did sail north and he did see a small river, but never sailed into it... There is proof that he and his ship returned back to port, and believe me, it was not something I wanted to uncover, but facts are facts.... So who could have sailed north? When? Why? and how? By luck, I came in contact with a private collector who told me he was in possession of a recording of Carver's interview discussing his time at the Jacobson ranch, and it took a lot of time and discussion, but I was granted permission to listen to it. No recording can be made, just listen and take notes... While listening to the nearly 4 hour cassette tape, I was in shock when I heard Carver give directions to where the ship was.... I am currently talking to all the land owners, Jacobson's property is now owned by many people and corporations- some not even in the state, about getting permission to locate the ship. But that's another story.. lol During the interview Carver states that the ship was about 50-60 feet long with the side boards about 30 feet in length, and 10-12"s wide and also about 2"s thick. He also stated that the bow was about 6' out of the ground and the stern about 4'. There are more observations but for now those will be kept private.. The odd thing about the tape was that when asked if he thought it was a viking ship he stated, "yeah, but why would that be there". So possibly no Spanish ship??? Well there went a buttload of research!!! Ok, so now with the new news can it be proven, and does it tie in the Botts story as well?
This is where the lengthy research begins, we all know that the Vikings were in Greenland, but could they have sailed as far as Alaska or even California?? Maybe....

nwp.jpg liav3g2.gif circum2c2.gif Skuldelev 5.jpg

The Northwest Passage has been rumored to possibly be a Viking route, but to what extent? Did the Vikings actually make it as far as the Bering Strait or even farther? This idea is still open to some deep discussion in the academic world with no current answer, of course...There also is a window of time during the years 950-1250 when something called the Medieval Warming Period (MWP) was happening. The MWP is a time where the water level could have been from 9-42 feet higher than current sea levels. Making travel by their boats possible, if not probable...

"In some years now, you can do the Northwest Passage almost in a rowboat"
The Vancouver Sun, Jan 30, 2003.


Speaking of boats, the vikings had a boat called the Skuldelev 5, which happens to meet the size that Carver talked about (50-60 feet long), and even held the shields on the side, like the Botts story. Side note -not all Viking ships carried shields on the sides... So we do have a boat, we do have a water level and temperature that would make the trip possible. We even have some strange unidentified cairns located as far as Vancouver Island, just south of Alaska.... Then there is also a story about two ships leaving a Sea of Cortez island and never returning.... Could the Botts ship and the Carver ship be these two long lost Viking boats??? The saga continues.....
 

Oroblanco

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Hey Gang!
It's been a loooong time since I've been here!!! But I have some good news!!! And to some of you, it may not be believable, but I can guarantee what I'm about to say will be interesting..... My particular take on the lost ship story is that the Jacobson angle is the ONLY yarn that has some teeth to it. This is not to discount any other story, just to me, it's the one I will dig into first, I do believe the Botts angle "could" have something as well though. So I have dug DEEP into this particular story and can tell you that Iturbe is probably not the guy... Sorry.... Since the last time I posted here I have tried to dig into Juan's history and life, and what I can tell you is that there is a Spanish report that says he did sail north and he did see a small river, but never sailed into it... There is proof that he and his ship returned back to port, and believe me, it was not something I wanted to uncover, but facts are facts.... So who could have sailed north? When? Why? and how? By luck, I came in contact with a private collector who told me he was in possession of a recording of Carver's interview discussing his time at the Jacobson ranch, and it took a lot of time and discussion, but I was granted permission to listen to it. No recording can be made, just listen and take notes... While listening to the nearly 4 hour cassette tape, I was in shock when I heard Carver give directions to where the ship was.... I am currently talking to all the land owners, Jacobson's property is now owned by many people and corporations- some not even in the state, about getting permission to locate the ship. But that's another story.. lol During the interview Carver states that the ship was about 50-60 feet long with the side boards about 30 feet in length, and 10-12"s wide and also about 2"s thick. He also stated that the bow was about 6' out of the ground and the stern about 4'. There are more observations but for now those will be kept private.. The odd thing about the tape was that when asked if he thought it was a viking ship he stated, "yeah, but why would that be there". So possibly no Spanish ship??? Well there went a buttload of research!!! Ok, so now with the new news can it be proven, and does it tie in the Botts story as well?
This is where the lengthy research begins, we all know that the Vikings were in Greenland, but could they have sailed as far as Alaska or even California?? Maybe....

View attachment 1343927 View attachment 1343937 View attachment 1343938 View attachment 1343939

The Northwest Passage has been rumored to possibly be a Viking route, but to what extent? Did the Vikings actually make it as far as the Bering Strait or even farther? This idea is still open to some deep discussion in the academic world with no current answer, of course...There also is a window of time during the years 950-1250 when something called the Medieval Warming Period (MWP) was happening. The MWP is a time where the water level could have been from 9-42 feet higher than current sea levels. Making travel by their boats possible, if not probable...

"In some years now, you can do the Northwest Passage almost in a rowboat"
The Vancouver Sun, Jan 30, 2003.


Speaking of boats, the vikings had a boat called the Skuldelev 5, which happens to meet the size that Carver talked about (50-60 feet long), and even held the shields on the side, like the Botts story. Side note -not all Viking ships carried shields on the sides... So we do have a boat, we do have a water level and temperature that would make the trip possible. We even have some strange unidentified cairns located as far as Vancouver Island, just south of Alaska.... Then there is also a story about two ships leaving a Sea of Cortez island and never returning.... Could the Botts ship and the Carver ship be these two long lost Viking boats??? The saga continues.....

GREAT post John and good to see you posting again! I hope this is going to become a regular habit for you! Keep 'em coming!

:coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2:
 

whiskyninja

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According to my knowledge, there was a salt mining operation at the bottom of what is now the Salton Sea. You can even go and see an old crane that's fallen over at the water's edge. I doubt an old wooden ship would've been completely disregarded. Even 100 years ago.
 

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