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Thought I had a killer find! But its counterfeit :-(

DrDetector

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Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

I was at a park earlier Saturday and was walking down a dirt road. We have had a lot of rain here lately and there was still a lot of standing water. I noticed a puddle a few inches deep in the dirt road and saw a silver-colored rim somewhat visible at the bottom. I thought it was a piece of trash like a wrapper and bent down to pick it up. When I did, I noticed it was a coin, and a large one! It was dirty, as if the recent rain had just uncovered it. I rinsed it off in the puddle and to my surprise this is what was looking back at me!

picture977.jpg


As I flipped the coin over to check the reverse, I noticed that the coin was not oriented the correct way that U.S. coins typically are, in other words, when I flipped it over the reverse was upside down. It was oriented in the same way a medal or token usually is. Also the coin felt slightly light to the touch, but it sounded like silver and appeared to me at the time to be silver. Here is the reverse:

picture978.jpg


I called up my hunting buddy Halfdime and I stopped by his house (where I met the lovely Mrs. Halfdime and the Halfdime Pup)! We took it to a loupe and determined that it was a modern counterfeit. It only rang as a +79-80 on the XLT while a true silver dollar would be at least 90-91. I got it home and it weighs roughly 16.5 grams rather than the 26.5 grams that one of my 'test' Morgans weighed. That confirms it to me. Oh well, still a nice looking fake!
 
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Re: Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

DrDetector said:
The coin does not stick to a magnet, I was researching it last night and found that sometimes they are made with a composition of 10% silver and 90% junk metal, which gives it the silvery ring to it.
Altho I believe what you posted,it's just not making sense to me... If the coin was 90%"junk" metal then a magnet should stick unless the Magnet isn't a strong one.... You should find yourself a really good strong one an try again...
 
Re: Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

creeper71 said:
DrDetector said:
The coin does not stick to a magnet, I was researching it last night and found that sometimes they are made with a composition of 10% silver and 90% junk metal, which gives it the silvery ring to it.
Altho I believe what you posted,it's just not making sense to me... If the coin was 90%"junk" metal then a magnet should stick unless the Magnet isn't a strong one.... You should find yourself a really good strong one an try again...

If it's 90% junk like Zinc or Lead it will not stick to magnet.
 
Re: Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

~Audiz~ said:
creeper71 said:
DrDetector said:
The coin does not stick to a magnet, I was researching it last night and found that sometimes they are made with a composition of 10% silver and 90% junk metal, which gives it the silvery ring to it.
Altho I believe what you posted,it's just not making sense to me... If the coin was 90%"junk" metal then a magnet should stick unless the Magnet isn't a strong one.... You should find yourself a really good strong one an try again...

If it's 90% junk like Zinc or Lead it will not stick to magnet.
Never thought of that..Duh to me
 
Re: Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

My link says they are copper-nickel but I have heard some will stick to a magnet. These are not old. They are modern counterfeits made to defraud. http://home.comcast.net/~reidgold/draped_busts/chinese.html

Still an interesting find.
 
Re: Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

DrDetector said:
I was at a park earlier Saturday and was walking down a dirt road. We have had a lot of rain here lately and there was still a lot of standing water. I noticed a puddle a few inches deep in the dirt road and saw a silver-colored rim somewhat visible at the bottom. I thought it was a piece of trash like a wrapper and bent down to pick it up. When I did, I noticed it was a coin, and a large one! It was dirty, as if the recent rain had just uncovered it. I rinsed it off in the puddle and to my surprise this is what was looking back at me!

picture977.jpg


As I flipped the coin over to check the reverse, I noticed that the coin was not oriented the correct way that U.S. coins typically are, in other words, when I flipped it over the reverse was upside down. It was oriented in the same way a medal or token usually is. Also the coin felt slightly light to the touch, but it sounded like silver and appeared to me at the time to be silver. Here is the reverse:

picture978.jpg


I called up my hunting buddy Halfdime and I stopped by his house (where I met the lovely Mrs. Halfdime and the Halfdime Pup)! We took it to a loupe and determined that it was a modern counterfeit. It only rang as a +79-80 on the XLT while a true silver dollar would be at least 90-91. I got it home and it weighs roughly 16.5 grams rather than the 26.5 grams that one of my 'test' Morgans weighed. That confirms it to me. Oh well, still a nice looking fake!
Test Morgan?? Its a Seated so may weigh a little different?? If it is a counterfeit its a sweet one!! Still a fun find!!
 
Re: Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

As the test weigher, we looked at the various weights of American silver dollars and though there is some variance, it's on the order of 26 vs 27 grams.
 
Re: Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

halfdime said:
As the test weigher, we looked at the various weights of American silver dollars and though there is some variance, it's on the order of 26 vs 27 grams.

Yeah the Morgans and Seated dollars are very similar in weight. The only Seated Dollar I have I do not have ready access to test the weight of, plus it's just not necessary. There are no bubbles on the surface of the coin, it is a very good counterfeit, aside from the rotated dies and the low weight.
 
Re: Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

plehbah© said:
Iron Patch said:
creeper71 said:
Have you tried a Magnet on the coin yet? that is the true tell all..if it sticks there will be no possible way it is real... I have a theory ..hope someone can answer it.. Could it be possible that the coin is counterfeit,but was made in the 1800's?


Probably only possible if made in silver to cheat the weight. But if the coin the correct diameter and thickness, the light weight would indicate it being non silver and probably something that would not hold up that good.

I'm curious to see the answer for this one. So far, what I see doesn't make sense because a modern replica is usually not that good.

I can understand what you are seeing, but there is a proliferation of these American dollar coins EVERYWHERE lately. All of a sudden, "modern Chinese fantasy" is the easiest answer.

It seems to be a planned part of their industrialization race.


The seated from China a year ago weren't that good, at least the ones I was seeing over and over.

It did walk and talk like a duck. I just like talking about ducks in general.
 
Re: Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

it still looks nice!
 
Re: Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

Any word from Guru Lou?
 
Re: Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

halfdime said:
Any word from Guru Lou?

I didn't see him today, I'm sure I'll see him by week's end though.
 
Re: Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

plehbah© said:
I can understand what you are seeing, but there is a proliferation of these American dollar coins EVERYWHERE lately. All of a sudden, "modern Chinese fantasy" is the easiest answer.

It seems to be a planned part of their industrialization race.
Here ya go. Gallery of pics. Scroll through it will make you sick.

http://coins.about.com/od/worldcoins/ig/Chinese-Counterfeiting-Ring/Chinese-Fake-Coin-Minting.htm
 

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Re: Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

Yeah coinfacts.com says it should weigh in at

1840 SILVER DOLLAR
PCGS Nos: 6926, 6981

Mintage:
Circulation strikes: 61,005
Proofs: estimated 50

Designer: Christian Gobrecht

Diameter: 38.1 millimeters

Metal Content:
Silver - 90%
Copper - 10%

Weight: 26.73 grams

Edge: Reeded

Mintmark: None (for Philadelphia) below the eagle on the reverse
 
Re: Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

Funny story.....
I have been researching a Ghost town. I came across information that there was a hidden press in the town, run by a steam engine that produced couterfit coins. I am actaully hoping to come across some of them in my search. How cool would that be?

Tim
 
Re: Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

Damn, I just looked at all of the pix in that link above - that made me sick to my stomoch!!!!!! >:(
 
Re: Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

Even if its a counterfeit, its a beauty! That Counterfeit operationspage made me sick to my stomach too. Its amazing that facts can be known like that, yet not stopped from happening. . .
 
Re: Thought I had a killer find! But it's counterfeit :-(

plehbah said:
bigcypresshunter said:
plehbah© said:
I can understand what you are seeing, but there is a proliferation of these American dollar coins EVERYWHERE lately. All of a sudden, "modern Chinese fantasy" is the easiest answer.

It seems to be a planned part of their industrialization race.
Here ya go. Gallery of pics. Scroll through it will make you sick.

http://coins.about.com/od/worldcoins/ig/Chinese-Counterfeiting-Ring/Chinese-Fake-Coin-Minting.htm

That was absolutely fascinating. The silk lined boxes full of SLQs was really astonishing.

It is brilliant because it caters to those seeking an easy bargain.
buyer beware
 

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