Tradesman work rate

[spartacus53]

What ever made you think all houses are made with wood The only nails in my field stone house are holding up the pictures

 

[Kentucky Kache]

What ever made you think all houses are made with wood The only nails in a fieldstone house are holding up my pictures

It doesn't matter how it's made, someone constructed it with skill. Anyone who thinks they can do it without learning how, give it a try. Please post the pics.

I consider what I do an art, as well as a skill. I take pride in what I do.

 

[Old Town]

KKashe, but for this point you keep at, this thread has pretty well died. But I'm fresh today and not so tired as last night. So I'm back in. A few random thoughts:

I agree a moron cannot frame a house. But any normal person can be taught basic geometry of cuts and how to use an air nail gun in a few days. They can be shown how to assemble the pieces in a manner that will make the code inspector happy. It is the code man who assures a house is framed correctly, not the the framer. True, a good framer rarely has a problem with inspectors. But if there is a problem, the code man is the one keeping your house from falling down. Think of this as having surgery done by an intern all the while the best surgeon in the world is keeping watch.

If you make a stud cut that is 1/32 of an inch too short and nail that bugger in tight, no harm. Many joints in some very strong houses are much more lax than this. (we all know they are) After you put up the wall board nobody is the wiser and such a bit of rough work matters not in the overall integrity of the building. Make a joint like that on a cabinet and you have junk that is unsaleable. A table saw is not a Japanese or Swedish jointing chisel. Framers with power saws make cuts, cabinet makers do wood surgery with delicate tools costing 3X any nail gun or power tool used in framing. My Myako cabinet chisels cost me 2800.00 dollars for a set of 11 shaped chisels. I do not even let people look at them let alone handle them. No joint on my cabinets in my yachts sees a power saw cut. It's all hand-fitted and done with chisels. Even the straight edges. If you are unaware of how this is done, you are not alone. But then you are a framer.

Framing is an honorable trade. But it ain't Old World cabinetry work. Not even close. You have inspectors to save your bacon. If I make a sloppy product no inspector gives a damn and I make no sale. Survival of the fittest and I don't me the joints this time.


Old Town

 

[simonds]

I have been a general contractor in the upstate N.Y. and north central Pa. region for 41 years. We do it all with a new home, from the ground up. I am now semi retired and only doing work for past customers and friends.
I charge $25.00 per hour or will do it at an agreed cost. This is about average in my area for someone who is self-employed and with a good reputation for quality workmanship.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

KKashe, but for this point you keep at, this thread has pretty well died.

What am I keeping at? I've only spoke when spoken to. Show me otherwise.

So now it's not cabinet makers, but those who do things exactly as you do?
People like you have a sickness, in my opinion. This sickness exists in the skilled trade. Even many framers think they have to put each other down. It has long been my opinion that people do this because they are deficient themselves, so the smaller you can make someone else look, the bigger YOU look. I think you need help, and I'm being serious. I'm sure you make a beautiful product. So do I. Why can't that be good enough?

 

[packerbacker]

That was a question I had. What kind of roof and do the roofers have to make an inspector happy? There are many types of roofs and roofing; some can be pretty detailed and require construction material that takes more than basic roofing skills to install. You can find guys around here, (N Calif) that will work for beer but you get what you pay for. If they fall off your roof then they get the house.
I'm not sure what a professional roofer for a "normal" roof would charge around here though; I've always done my own work or had my sons help me.

 

[Old Town]

Kashe, I said long ago framing was honorable and you wanted to raise the skill level of framers to that of cabinet makers. This is folly and you know it. One can be a good framer but it is doubtful many framers can make good cabinets.

As to bringing my foibles into the discussion, you know nothing of me. My anal approach to cabinet making and general woodworking is dwarfed by those older men I was taught by. What seems like magic coming out of my boathouse today would have gotten me fired 35 years ago by the Swedish fellow who first showed me how. Now he was anal. By comparison I'm still a hack.

OT

 

[truckinbutch]

Kashe, I said long ago framing was honorable and you wanted to raise the skill level of framers to that of cabinet makers. This is folly and you know it. One can be a good framer but it is doubtful many framers can make good cabinets.

As to bringing my foibles into the discussion, you know nothing of me. My anal approach to cabinet making and general woodworking is dwarfed by those older men I was taught by. What seems like magic coming out of my boathouse today would have gotten me fired 35 years ago by the Swedish fellow who first showed me how. Now he was anal. By comparison I'm still a hack.

OT

And there lies the difference .....................
Quit pickin , Kashe .
On the other hand , we can build a house and you make the cabinets for it . You inspect our structure and we inspect your cabinets . Wanna bet on who makes the cut ?

 

[spartacus53]

He's always welcomed to come and kick the granite corner stone and see if the rest of the field stones fall in too

 

[Roger Mn.]

I don't think that's a bad price for roofing. It depends on weather there working at it or taking there sweet time. Also what type of roofing there working with. Are they removing old asphalt shingles and putting on new. What size roof is it and how many layers to remove? Around here they charge by the square. Lets say an easy roof $80.00 per square per layer tear off. $80.00 to $120.00 per square materials and $80.00 per square to put them on. Dumpster fees. If the house is cut up meaning a lot of valleys and dormers IT could be more. Slate and tile repairs run around $ 60.00 an hour per man. Plus milage and hotel if out of town.
Around here you have to be licensed and insured. There was to many people getting took by people working out of trucks traveling from town to town driving new trucks and Cadillacs. Spraying metal roofs with aluminum coatings cut with fuel oil. I would have a roofer come and check there work on the roof because once you pay them and there gone and a small wind comes up and all the shingles are on the ground and the house is completely flooded its to late. Always hire local contractors who are licensed,bonded and insured.
roger

 

[Kentucky Kache]

And there lies the difference .....................
Quit pickin , Kashe .
On the other hand , we can build a house and you make the cabinets for it . You inspect our structure and we inspect your cabinets . Wanna bet on who makes the cut ?

You tell me to quit "pickin" and you keep taunting. If you want me to stop, then shut your trap.

Actually, I have made cabinets. I don't claim to be a cabinet maker, but I have done it. I have respect for all aspects of the building trade. Why don't you try doing that.

As for who would make the cut, I hope it would be all of us. As long as we each know our trade, why wouldn't we make the cut?

 

[Old Town]

rodgerdodger, good information. Especially about roof clean up. My father used to hate the idea of nailing over existing shingles. He always cleared a roof first. No layers on layers.

Here in Florida we have a lot of tin or steel roofs. You don't shingle over one of those of course. I notice in Massachusetts, where I'm at currently, there are no steel roofs at all. I don't know why this is as a metal roof is very easy to live with when a hurricane comes through. They take wind well.

OT

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Sigh, Me, I am just a mule driver that was born lazy and successfully dedicated my life to not changing.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Frankn]

well in 73 years I was bound to learn something. My grandfather built all those ole row houses in Balto with white marble steps. My father built row houses out futher. My grandfather on the other side was a master plumber and they all tough me their trades. I picked up brick, block, flagstone and concrete work from my brotherinlaw. Drafting I picked up in schools and on the job. Electricity I learned in the electrical union IBEW28. Electronics I picked up in local classes and RCA courses, plus 32 years experience on the job.
When My home burned down, I drew up the plans using load tables from the library. I then fought the building permit bureau. Their engineer passed them with no problem. The electrical dept made me take the electrician test. A 4 hour test I aced in 2 hrs. the plumbing dept. head happened to be a graduate of Baltimore Polytechnic institute also, so the permit breezed thru.

I dug the footers,poured the concrete,erected the stud walls,installed the trusses in front and standard rafters in back,installed 2" EPS panels on the outside covered by a exterior paneling. Put 3" of fiber glass in the wall and inst 1/2" sheetrock on the inside. the roof is aluminum on 4" perlins. I wired and plumbed the house. The cabinets were premade as most are today in this area.

NOW
If YOU WOULD ASK ME WHAT PART REQUIRED THE MOST SKILL, i WOULD SAY, DESIGNING THE PLANS. The REST OF THE JOBS ARE FOLLOW THE LEADER TYPE WORK. GRANTED, THEY ALL REQUIRE THERE OWN SPECIAL SKILLS, BUT TO COMPAIR THEM IS APPLES AND ORANGES!

I HOPE THIS PUTS THIS DEBATE TO REST BEFORE WE ALL GET BANDED!

As for the original post, most work around here is price bid rather than hourly, although I am a barterer myself.

​

 

[truckinbutch]

well in 73 years I was bound to learn something. My grandfather built all those ole row houses in Balto with white marble steps. My father built row houses out futher. My grandfather on the other side was a master plumber and they all tough me their trades. I picked up brick, block, flagstone and concrete work from my brotherinlaw. Drafting I picked up in schools and on the job. Electricity I learned in the electrical union IBEW28. Electronics I picked up in local classes and RCA courses, plus 32 years experience on the job.
When My home burned down, I drew up the plans using load tables from the library. I then fought the building permit bureau. Their engineer passed them with no problem. The electrical dept made me take the electrician test. A 4 hour test I aced in 2 hrs. the plumbing dept. head happened to be a graduate of Baltimore Polytechnic institute also, so the permit breezed thru.

I dug the footers,poured the concrete,erected the stud walls,installed the trusses in front and standard rafters in back,installed 2" EPS panels on the outside covered by a exterior paneling. Put 3" of fiber glass in the wall and inst 1/2" sheetrock on the inside. the roof is aluminum on 4" perlins. I wired and plumbed the house. The cabinets were premade as most are today in this area.

NOW
If YOU WOULD ASK ME WHAT PART REQUIRED THE MOST SKILL, i WOULD SAY, DESIGNING THE PLANS. The REST OF THE JOBS ARE FOLLOW THE LEADER TYPE WORK. GRANTED, THEY ALL REQUIRE THERE OWN SPECIAL SKILLS, BUT TO COMPAIR THEM IS APPLES AND ORANGES!

I HOPE THIS PUTS THIS DEBATE TO REST BEFORE WE ALL GET BANDED!

As for the original post, most work around here is price bid rather than hourly, although I am a barterer myself.

​

Thank you , Sir , for helping us find some closure for this .
Jim

 

[DigginThePast]

 

[Tubecity]

dwarfed by those older men I was taught by. What seems like magic coming out of my boathouse today would have gotten me fired 35 years ago by the Swedish fellow who first showed me how. Now he was anal. By comparison I'm still a hack.
===================================================================
Besides your stories , I've gained more respect for you after reading this. I have worked running turret lathes
making pressure plugs for the Navy's submarines with super-close tolerances, worked as a true millwright
involving very close tolerances on hydraulics, pneumatics & especially gearing . Rebuilding & setting up & not
simply the parts changers you now see today in the industry. As a young apprentice, I too worked with an old
Swede . Tough as nails but it took me years to grow up & understand just how much an impression he had
upon me as the 'best' mentor. The one trade I admired after years of schooling was the 'pattern makers' .
Seen many 'cabinet makers' working this job as first employment. Also, in my line of work ,there is a world
of difference between a few thousandths & 1/4 inch. Even with technology like laser alignments & infra-red,
completely alien to these old craftsmen, I still doubt my abilities compared to these 'old masters'. A level , a
wood 6 ft. rule or steel 25' tape & shims are of little use in my work. I like you respect all working trades &
will only good-naturedly harass the others. But there is a reason the old ones had so many trades , none of
us ever live long enough to master them all.

 

[Old Town]

Tube, I've got a manual Bridgeport I use to hack out what small metal fixtures I need at times. I'm no machinist but know enough not to hurt myself at least.

I think the prototype manual machinist is the king of the pile. Guy like that can cross over into fine woodwork with very little difficulty because he's got the correct mindset going in and understands tolerances. What he does is measured in .0001, or in some cases tighter measure as with flatness, concentricity, etc.


OT

 

[Tubecity]

There are still many skilled hands-on types out there. Too bad, this country has lost so many of the corporations & industries that
required these crafts & trades. Many are close to being lost & along with it, a certain independence for thought & life that herding
people into cubicles can't allow. We're paying the price, look at the large amount of inferior, imported goods we see today.

 

[Seamuss]

I'll be right back I have to get my

I have butter. Otherwise, I'll watch you craftsmen get to work once the jinnerish is out of it.

There was a mention of granite cornerstones being layed. I can't see my house for all of the jade(nephrite) that I halled home over the years.
I'll never be a craftsman with cutting it but I can dream of making a castle out of it. I do my dreaming in my well built.. stick home with well built cabinets to hold my belongings.

Look busy, the boss(wife) is watching.