Trail Signs and Monuments-Spanish or Somebody Else

[Maverick1]

Understood, as always... Thanks & have a great day.

 

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Back to ya dear...
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[Maverick1]

Back to ya dear...
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... ~:Crosse:~ ...

 

[mdog]

Well I’m back. Sorry to run out like that, but I had already seen the cream n chocolate pie and I know the house rules.
If I don’t get done with supper in time, I will get the small slice.


Where were we? Oh yeah I remember. We generally get a round table type conversation going... not necessarily with everyone there at a time, but with at least one that knows more than me to keep us between the lines.

There has been so much sand in the air, that even the best teachers will hesitate to open their mouth.

I am just trying to get the regular folks out of the firing range so that we can at least talk about the trails of old.

I have been trying to find time to read The translated Spanish Mining Laws. It sounds like fun, but even though it’s in English, it is still a book of laws. It is still fascinating when you figure out how Spanish Rulers controlled the gold, silver, copper and cinnabar ( mercury)mining from halfway across the world.

Every bit of information, on every mine, was kept, from the staking of the claims all the way through the Royal refinery and it all had to be checked and witnessed by multiple people at different points of the process... and it all had to line up, and if it didn’t it
Was designed for nobody to trust anyone.
Nobody ever wants to be audited, ever.

I have been tied to too many horses lately, I’m afraid someone may say anything that sounds like
“Giddy up. That’s a good sound if we’re on the trails.
Keep watching and waiting for the air to clear,and I’m pretty sure that we will be back on the board. It wouldn’t hurt, if you have a little time to read up on the subject in advance.
The KGC has a bit of followers and probably a few different opinions on their influences on a number of subjects. And pretty much like any where else on line there will be lots of opinions.

I try to say, at least once in a while “In my humble opinion.” Especially when ya have a hot topic!

I hope tomorrow will have less stress and more time than today.

You never know what can happen around you.
Today , my wife came in and tried to tell me something had happened, but she was already in tears and finally she Just said “Pray for Juno!”
That is our neighbor’s dog, well one of three.
I asked what happened and she was back in tears again. Finally she said “ She was chasing a squirrel  and ran into a telephone pole!
She saw it as it happened, which was traumatic enough, but by the time she ran to check her, she thought Juno was dead and one of the other dogs was trying to wake her up by grabbing her leg and pulling on it. The girl that Juno belongs to had heard the collision and a yelp was hunting for her frantically. My wife told her what she saw and she said go get my mom and she hit the door once and just ran in yelling for help.

All of both of our families dearly love their dogs and treat them like family.
They carefully got her into their truck and to the veterinarian and did multiple X-rays and somehow she had broken her back...
I understand how difficult it was for her to tell me all of this. It’s painful to write it.

After five long hours the vet said that he would set up an appointment for surgery on Monday morning, and if they cannot save her that they, and us as well, need to brace ourselves for her to be put down.
They came over to let us know just as I was about to open the door to go see them and we all collided in the doorway.

So I may be invisible for parts of the next few days.

But I’ll catch up when I can.

Pm

Thanks for the post Mikel. To bad about your neighbors dog. I hope things turn out well. Looking forward to hearing from you.

 

[mdog]

Please start here.

I would very much like ta hear more about this, and more pics of tha shadow signs would be appreciated. Were tha KGC known ta use them?

Y'all done and got my curiosity stirred up, please continue.

Who created them is part of the discussion. Some say the Spanish, some say KGC and some say ancient cultures. I don't know of anybody who has published any studies on them. If somebody has the right skills, anybody could do it. A couple of years ago, I saw a skull carved out of a rock formation in the same area of what many consider treasure symbols. The skull had been carved a few weeks before I saw it and at Halloween time. It was destroyed, but if it hadn't been, several years from now, some treasure hunter might have considered it treasure related. I guess if you run across some shadow art, in the field, you will have a lot of research in front of you, if you want to find out who put it there.

Here is some more shadow art from the same place. I'll post, you decide.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

Who created them is part of the discussion. Some say the Spanish, some say KGC and some say ancient cultures. I don't know of anybody who has published any studies on them. If somebody has the right skills, anybody could do it. A couple of years ago, I saw a skull carved out of a rock formation in the same area of what many consider treasure symbols. The skull had been carved a few weeks before I saw it and at Halloween time. It was destroyed, but if it hadn't been, several years from now, some treasure hunter might have considered it treasure related. I guess if you run across some shadow art, in the field, you will have a lot of research in front of you, if you want to find out who put it there.

Here is some more shadow art from the same place. I'll post, you decide.

View attachment 1697722 View attachment 1697724

That was purty much why I asked how ye attributed them to tha KGC. Sun and shadow has been used by various cultures fer centuries. I jest wondered how anyone would be able ta attribute a shadow setup to one perticular group without hard evidence or associated artifacts. Thank ye fer taking tha time ta answer my questions. I appreciate it.

P.S. And don't ferget tha ones made by unscrupulous treasure hunters/writers themselves.

 

[mdog]

That was purty much why I asked how ye attributed them to tha KGC. Sun and shadow has been used by various cultures fer centuries. I jest wondered how anyone would be able ta attribute a shadow setup to one perticular group without hard evidence or associated artifacts. Thank ye fer taking tha time ta answer my questions. I appreciate it.

P.S. And don't ferget tha ones made by unscrupulous treasure hunters/writers themselves.

The only reason I say KGC is because of the presence of the guy who was hosted by the family that owned the land. There was also more evidence, from the late 1900's that makes me lean that way. However, the Spanish did claim this area, at one time, and it's close to a trail that went to a mining area. Also, some family members were high ranking Masons and one was a multimillionaire Knight's Templar.

Ol' Kentuck, do you know of any links that would show information about the cultures that used light and shadow art?

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

The only reason I say KGC is because of the presence of the guy who was hosted by the family that owned the land. There was also more evidence, from the late 1900's that makes me lean that way. However, the Spanish did claim this area, at one time, and it's close to a trail that went to a mining area. Also, some family members were high ranking Masons and one was a multimillionaire Knight's Templar.

Ol' Kentuck, do you know of any links that would show information about the cultures that used light and shadow art?

Right, and I understood ye had yer reasons after ye explained.

I'd have ta dig in my files for academic papers, but here are a couple of examples, though kinda simplified. Tha Cosmological influences can be seen here...

Snakes on a Pyramid, the Equinox at Chichen Itza

And tha use of shadow ta tell stories has a long history in China, India, Nepal, and Southeast Asia, as well as in Turkey, Greece, and the Middle East.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/history/ancient-beginnings-art-shadow-puppetry-006608

That's kinda what I feel like is goin on with these sites yer discussing. There is a story bein told, in its own way. Does that make any sense?

 

[mdog]

Right, and I understood ye had yer reasons after ye explained.

I'd have ta dig in my files for academic papers, but here are a couple of examples, though kinda simplified. Tha Cosmological influences can be seen here...

Snakes on a Pyramid, the Equinox at Chichen Itza

And tha use of shadow ta tell stories has a long history in China, India, Nepal, and Southeast Asia, as well as in Turkey, Greece, and the Middle East.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/history/ancient-beginnings-art-shadow-puppetry-006608

That's kinda what I feel like is goin on with these sites yer discussing. There is a story bein told, in its own way. Does that make any sense?

Yes it does make sense. The shadows could be used to tell a story that isn't treasure related. Thanks for the links.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Bring it on. I like that stuff.

Sometimes that rabbits hole is disguised! If it was easy and logical to find his hole then everybody could do it Mdog. I have herded cats as well, all in the same hunt and I have been wrong a thousand times, BUT when I mess up and get it right it is ALL worth the time wasted and well spent just the same.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Here's a map of the Santa Fe Trail, a trade trail that linked New Mexico with western Missouri.

View attachment 1681928

There was a lot of bullion that moved east, along this trail. Here are a couple links that describe the trade goods freighted on the Santa Fe Trail.

https://www.kshs.org/p/freighting-a-big-business-on-the-santa-fe-trail/12532

https://www.ci.independence.mo.us/userdocs/nftm/Barrels.pdf

This next link shows that Mexican traders went east to trade, taking bullion with them. The chapter titled Commerce, starts on page 190.

https://books.google.com/books?id=K...llion shipments on the santa fe trail&f=false

First I have read about the Radical Abolitionists attacking Russel Waddell and Majors shipments! Lends credibility to my theory of them poisoning Francis Burt on his trip to Nebraska Territory. Alexander Majors met with fellow slave owner S.F. Nuckolls who traveled to Kansas City to make the deal before locating Nebraska City on the banks of the Missouri River. John B. Floyd was well aware of the operation as he would be the one that issued the first contracts to them. The history books would have us believe Nuckolls cleared the area on the river to build Nebraska City without any slave labor! I guess the census that said there were only 12 Negroe slaves in Nebraska Territory did not count the ones living on steamships and in lean-tos on the dock?

Thanks for the link, L.C.

 

[mdog]

Sometimes that rabbits hole is disguised! If it was easy and logical to find his hole then everybody could do it Mdog. I have herded cats as well, all in the same hunt and I have been wrong a thousand times, BUT when I mess up and get it right it is ALL worth the time wasted and well spent just the same.
View attachment 1697813

Hi L.C. I have a question for you that you might or might not want to answer. What does a KGC cache site look like. Maybe you've seen some or maybe you know somebody who has. You've studied some very complicated clues, but they all seem small. I'm curious about what other people have found at a cache site. Are there shadow signs and large rock hearts and do they have carved or stone owls or measured out triangles. I'd like to know what your opinion is about KGC cache sites.

 

[mdog]

First I have read about the Radical Abolitionists attacking Russel Waddell and Majors shipments! Lends credibility to my theory of them poisoning Francis Burt on his trip to Nebraska Territory. Alexander Majors met with fellow slave owner S.F. Nuckolls who traveled to Kansas City to make the deal before locating Nebraska City on the banks of the Missouri River. John B. Floyd was well aware of the operation as he would be the one that issued the first contracts to them. The history books would have us believe Nuckolls cleared the area on the river to build Nebraska City without any slave labor! I guess the census that said there were only 12 Negroe slaves in Nebraska Territory did not count the ones living on steamships and in lean-tos on the dock?

Thanks for the link, L.C.

You're welcome. I have another question for you, L.C. What is the connection between the KGC and Brownsville, Nebraska?

 

[L.C. BAKER]

This is what a shadow symbol looks like on a map. In this case, it was buried near a 22-foot tall obelisk that was used to indicate what solstice we were supposed to look through this needle's eye. The other one is a moon symbol indicating at what time to do it. It all was placed in the Spring and Summer of 1882, but the catch is, it has been placed on a preexsisting K.G.C. trail by the O.A.K.

 

[Maverick1]

Who created them is part of the discussion. Some say the Spanish, some say KGC and some say ancient cultures. I don't know of anybody who has published any studies on them. If somebody has the right skills, anybody could do it. A couple of years ago, I saw a skull carved out of a rock formation in the same area of what many consider treasure symbols. The skull had been carved a few weeks before I saw it and at Halloween time. It was destroyed, but if it hadn't been, several years from now, some treasure hunter might have considered it treasure related. I guess if you run across some shadow art, in the field, you will have a lot of research in front of you, if you want to find out who put it there.

Here is some more shadow art from the same place. I'll post, you decide.

View attachment 1697722 View attachment 1697724

Mdog, in this type of research is not uncommon to come to a dead end…several times.

When that happens, it usually takes a Game Changer (of sorts) in order to keep moving forward.
I’m not sure, nor do I want to imply a dead-end in this situation.

But since all possibilities have been already on the table, and also brainstormed by capable people that made a serious scope of their research on the subject(s), I have one suggestion to make that helped me in the past in similar ‘near dead-end situations.

I have learned that my Game Changer and the first indication and Eureka moment would have to be some sort of the “artist’s” mark, or signature that relates to a specific group and thus, to a specific period.

Given the need of any group to identify itself to successors over time, almost every time when a site/location is valid, there is a valid type of mark/emblem/shield or written characters of various languages that will make the distinction between that site and other graffiti-type or more recent lover’s-mark type locations.

The type of signature mark should be in addition to all other commonly known Treasure Marks & Signs that everybody is aware of, or can be easily forged and duplicated.
This particular ‘signature/mark’ will not be either obvious or in plain sight, nor easy to find and recognize. But if/when that becomes established, there will be no doubt about the results of your research.

In my opinion, that should become a priority before any other further investigation on the meaning of the symbols or marks.
Everything is going to fall in place in a more natural and easy way.



P.S. As far as your recent pictures, I (personally) wasn’t able to make an educated guess. You or others may do a better job of identifying KGC insignia or patterns.
The carved Owl may not be their trademark, only.

 

[mdog]

Mdog, in this type of research is not uncommon to come to a dead end…several times.

When that happens, it usually takes a Game Changer (of sorts) in order to keep moving forward.
I’m not sure, nor do I want to imply a dead-end in this situation.

But since all possibilities have been already on the table, and also brainstormed by capable people that made a serious scope of their research on the subject(s), I have one suggestion to make that helped me in the past in similar ‘near dead-end situations.

I have learned that my Game Changer and the first indication and Eureka moment would have to be some sort of the “artist’s” mark, or signature that relates to a specific group and thus, to a specific period.

Given the need of any group to identify itself to successors over time, almost every time when a site/location is valid, there is a valid type of mark/emblem/shield or written characters of various languages that will make the distinction between that site and other graffiti-type or more recent lover’s-mark type locations.

The type of signature mark should be in addition to all other commonly known Treasure Marks & Signs that everybody is aware of, or can be easily forged and duplicated.
This particular ‘signature/mark’ will not be either obvious or in plain sight, nor easy to find and recognize. But if/when that becomes established, there will be no doubt about the results of your research.

In my opinion, that should become a priority before any other further investigation on the meaning of the symbols or marks.
Everything is going to fall in place in a more natural and easy way.



P.S. As far as your recent pictures, I (personally) wasn’t able to make an educated guess. You or others may do a better job of identifying KGC insignia or patterns.
The carved Owl may not be their trademark, only.

Thanks for the tip, Maverick. This project is about to be retired. I've spent 10 years on it and have learned a lot. I have a Native American trail, that I want to focus on and it seems like it takes longer for me to finish the to do list that is always present. Thanks for your help.

 

[mdog]

I feel that I've posted enough information in this thread to give a good head start to anybody interested in the study of bullion trails. This will be my last post, on this thread. That doesn't mean I'm finished with Tnet or my friends here, it just means I won't be posting on this thread. If anybody has any questions about anything that I have posted in any of my threads, please send me a private message, anytime. Thank you for the attention all of you have given this thread and I hope the information here proves helpful.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

Thank ye Sir, for a very interestin thread, and fer all yer research that ye've shared. I've learned alot that will help with my own. Very much enjoyed it, and look forward to more of yer posts in other areas. All the Best to ye friend.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Hi L.C. I have a question for you that you might or might not want to answer. What does a KGC cache site look like? Maybe you've seen some or maybe you know somebody who has. You've studied some very complicated clues, but they all seem small. I'm curious about what other people have found at a cache site. Are there shadow signs and large rock hearts and do they have carved or stone owls or measured out triangles. I'd like to know what your opinion is about KGC cache sites.

In our case, it looks like this most of the time


Right now it looks like this most places



On this trail which seems to be unique in some ways and not in others, It started at the turtle on Julius Sterling Morton's monument railing at Wyuka Cemetery in Nebraska City. While you are standing at the steps the turtle is on your left and the needle's eye on your right. From that spot, you can see all of the symbols and signs you are meant to see, that is unless they build something new in the way later or it grows over with weeds and trees and such. To begin with, you had to see the turtle for what it really was.(The first rabbit chaser on the scene showed up in 1970: icon_thumright That only took 82 years to happen. From that point with what was found at the turtle in your hand, you stand at those steps again and look around you. All you need to see is within your eyesight or touch. I don't want to highjack your thread Mdog. I think the point is that a person will have to think outside of the box or they will never get the point the maker is leaving with a symbol. We did not know about the needle's eye until I was told about the symbol that I had recognised as a symbol but I did not know what it was by Pinwheel. It was made to look like a nail in a carved board right beside the turtle less than a foot away from him and only an arms reach from the needle's eye. There are other symbols carved on the structure and steps but none on the obelisk itself that was first set for the man's wife.

 

[Maverick1]

I feel that I've posted enough information in this thread to give a good head start to anybody interested in the study of bullion trails. This will be my last post, on this thread. That doesn't mean I'm finished with Tnet or my friends here, it just means I won't be posting on this thread. If anybody has any questions about anything that I have posted in any of my threads, please send me a private message, anytime. Thank you for the attention all of you have given this thread and I hope the information here proves helpful.

You will always have our admiration and respect, sir. Those of us that know the kind of person you really are. I know that I'm not speaking only for myself, but for a larger group and also for the silent readers. Thank you.