Turn off the LAMP

[Zephyr]

As one who identified a complete ship keel washed up after a hurricane, only to be told by the state "archeologists" it was a bridge timber, I'm a little short on respect for those bozos. Same with LAMP, who had the same opinion.

BTW, Tommy Gore verified it was a keel. Now who am I gonna believe..Mr. Gore, who has seen every sunken ship on the east coast, or some desk jockey in Tallahassee??

Get it in writing from the desk jockey that it's "bridge timber", get a permit, then remove the remains of the "bridge" and all of the stuff that was apparently being transported across it when it was washed away. (If you somehow find lots of gold or silver coins, then it just means that some poor soul lost a lot of pocket change. ) Of course, then they'll probably complain about their precious beach being cleaned up....

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HIO: further discusion with Chuck in "The Lamp" http://www.staugustinelighthouse.com/blog/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Good morning Chuck: I will concede to a bit of erroneous statements, sigh, even my wife doesn't consider me an infallible Saint despite my personal opinion. Life can be brutal.

I do have a few points which I wish that you would discuss though.

A) Just why can't both work together for mutual benefit? Remember, many TH /Salvors are College educated also, so don't look down upon them. They can compliment and pool knowledge for mutual benefit. Each has their special field of expertise, one that is needed by both for success.

Also, "never" equate a formal education with Intelligence, it is mainly a matter of economic situations in many cases.

Yes, I am college educated.

B) Just how many wrecks of the same era and type, are needed to know basically all there is to know of that era?

C) Where are / is the space and viewing areas for the public to enjoy the present vast accumulation of duplicated / repeated artifacts, let alone the future accumulation?

Remember, we are talking of shiploads of artifacts with nothing going to the salvor.

D) I am not a salvor, but a land hunter. I have had success, which culminated with the finding of rhe lost TAYOPA Jesuit mining Complex.

This has frustrated hundreds of seekers over the past 300 years, many of whom died in the search.

This was the result of many years of research, land explorations, lost personal earnings, and yes, confrontations with bandidos which resulted in shooting - I, obviously won.

Regarding Archaelogical findings, I once spent 6 months living off of the jungle between Mexico and Belize looking for Mayan ruins. I was successful in fndng a small Pyramid which was duly reported to the Dept in Mexico city.

To date, I have not heard of any expedition going to the area to examine / excavate it ?

Franky, I doubt that I can return to the location since the country has changed soo much.

I know closely the location of a Manilla Galleon, a WW-2 German submarine that was on an espeonage mission, the location of the ship carrying the Zimmerman gold of WW-1, the location of the English pirate Cromwell's ship, and many others.

These all took time and money, even though they were side issues. Should I merely forget them since I may be unable to recoup either time or money under you present belief? If such is the case, they will be forgotten forever.

Frankly, on some, I am now the only living source of information.

I am perfectly willing to work within the hierachy, but, I certanly do not intend to be excluded, or not compensated, since I found them, not the various depts.

What would you reccommend?

Incidentally, I am a duly elected member of the EXPLORERS CLUB

http://www.explorers.org/

Joseph Curry (Tayopa)
alias Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[scubatreasure]

I would like to apologize for my temper, I am passionate and relativly new to this forum...and quite frankly I am humbled to be in the presence of many of you, but i have a hot temper sometimes. I to have a college education, most of which i have unfortunatly forgotten, have taken underwater archeology coarse and underwater evidence recovery symposium given by police in NJ for many years, member of underwater search and rescue dive team both active and inactive duty since 1994. so now i find myself in Florida and would like to persue a salvage operation...(lifestyle)...isn't there enough wreck sites off the coast of Florida to sustain the independent salvor and why don't these archies work together with the independent salvors...i remember when there were no underwater archies to speak of now they want it all for themselves ...well no i say....hell no......and Mr. Curry..(can i call you Joe)...i see that they have posted your remarks on the lamp, so this in itself means at least they are willing to listen now where do we go from here?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HIO Scubatreasure: You can call me anything except for the four letter words that my wife, or Oro, occaisionally call me - heheheh, And I thank you for your friendship. Incidentally, the last time that I was called " MR", was when I left the USAF. Hint.

I see that we are of a similar mind, wonderful. As for the Lamp, the next step is up to them, their answer to my questions. I have offered the olive branch.

Just remember, the key is civility, I tend to become turned off myself or defensive when someone starts with "You old S.O.B" , or similar loving words.

Wanna Manilla galleon under mud in Costa Rica?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning room: Chuck has posted an answer, remarkedly logical and civil. Here is my answer to his last post. Nah, I am not a traitor heheheh.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Good morning Chuck:

I agree in esence with all of your posts and points. Well put.

Up at Tayopa, there is a small room, still sealed, with records and maps from The 1630's.

I insist on having certifeid copies of all, and exclusive rights to utilize any information regarding any other operations, both mining and financially applicable other wise.

Archaeological data and work to be shared equally.

I believe that we could both work together nicely, if you didn't mind narcotic growers and plain bandidos as bed room companions. sheesh.

Jose

p.s. You have posted a remarkably correct and acceptable answer, with no overtones of superiority, I appreciate it.

 

[piratediver]

Speaking of overtones of superiority: this is a posting from SUBARCH regarding UNESCO by the Texas A&M communist:

Re: Unesco Convention will be active January, 3rd, 2009
From: Filipe Castro <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: Underwater Archaeology Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:34:10 -0700
Content-Type: text/plain

Every month or so I come to Sub-Arch and find out that you have been arguing
again. )

As I am sure that you are all dying to know my opinion, here it goes:

I think that the UNESCO Convention has lots of potentially bad and lots of
potentially good things in it.

When I see a bureaucrat I feel exactly the same as Jesus feels when he sees
a cross, and this Convention empowers an international group of bureaucrats,
most of them so mean and so anal that they would make Stalin's politbureau
blush.

Anyway, I think that it is a necessary evil: unfortunately THs tend to be
incredibly shallow, no matter how low they sink (themselves and their
devices ), and we need protection from them (as we need protection from
the Wall Street crowd, drunk drivers, etc).

I am therefore happy that it is in business, for two main reasons:

"Rule 2. The commercial exploitation of underwater cultural heritage for
trade or
speculation or its irretrievable dispersal is fundamentally incompatible
with the protection and proper management of underwater cultural heritage.
Underwater cultural heritage shall not be traded, sold, bought or bartered
as commercial goods."

This is just self-evident, plain common sense, and therefore deserves no
comment. The second reason is very important:

"Rule 36. A final synthesis of a project shall be: (a) MADE PUBLIC as soon
as possible, having regard to the complexity of the project and the
confidential or sensitive nature of the information; and (b) deposited in
relevant public records."

Even though the state bureaucrats that crafted the Convention were careful
not promise too much here, I am afraid that this is the most relevant Rule
of the entire document. I know that all THs and many archaeologists
(mostly European) will hate Rule 36, but things that are not published and
peer-reviewed do not exist. And if archaeologists want to be taken
seriously, they will have to produce their primary data.

Filipe



Pirate Diver

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hio Treasure: You posted -->

As I am sure that you are all dying to know my opinion, here it goes:
~~~~~~~~~~

I AM? hmmmm

Treasure you are correct. gad.

DonJose de La Mancha

 

[Amona]

I would like to apologize for my temper, I am passionate and relativly new to this forum...and quite frankly I am humbled to be in the presence of many of you, but i have a hot temper sometimes. I to have a college education, most of which i have unfortunatly forgotten, have taken underwater archeology coarse and underwater evidence recovery symposium given by police in NJ for many years, member of underwater search and rescue dive team both active and inactive duty since 1994. so now i find myself in Florida and would like to persue a salvage operation...(lifestyle)...isn't there enough wreck sites off the coast of Florida to sustain the independent salvor and why don't these archies work together with the independent salvors...i remember when there were no underwater archies to speak of now they want it all for themselves ...well no i say....hell no......and Mr. Curry..(can i call you Joe)...i see that they have posted your remarks on the lamp, so this in itself means at least they are willing to listen now where do we go from here?

Treasure Hunter vs. Archaeologists

Treasure hunter are Archaeologist without a Bachelor Degree in Archeology of some University. An Archaeologist is a treasure hunter with Bachelor Degree in Archeology giving to him or her license to excavate and send Historics items to some Museum.Unfortunately many time they loot.Unfortunately they can't be sent to jail if they remove some treasure underground, a treasure hunter can be.Therefore I resume this essay;

1. As a Treasure Hunter respect rules,fill out holes and don't follow Odyssey's example.

or

2. Get a Bachelor Degree in Archeology in order to have any permit granted even in US National Park.

or

3. Turn 'off' you lamp in treasure hunting hobby.

Amona

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning:

Posted this today. ----> http://www.staugustinelighthouse.com/cgi-bin/MT/mt-comments.cgi
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Good morning Chuck: You will find references to the TAYOPA /Jesuit mining complex in the -->

http://www.historyhuntersinternational.org


Scroll down on the left side to Tayopa,

Also go to, (horrors, hehehe )

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/board,73.0.html


Scroll to TAYOPA.

We also have identified the location of ATLANTIS, as also posted in both sites.

I am sure that regardless of your particular views on the subject, you might find the story and search for Tayopa fascinating.

As for Atlantis, get to cracking my friend, it is being handed to you on a figurative silver platter heheh.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HOLA TREASURE: I posted this--->

Hio Treasure: You posted -->

As I am sure that you are all dying to know my opinion, here it goes:
~~~~~~~~~~

I AM? hmmmm

Treasure you are correct. gad.

DonJose de La Mancha
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On rereading his comment, I may have been 180 degrees off base, he merely may have been saying that as an off handed, sarcastic remark, in which he may have been thinking just the opposite - that no-one really gives a d---...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Scubatreasure: You never responded to my remark -->

"Wanna Manilla galleon under mud in Costa Rica" ?

I will never do anything with it, too many other thingies to do first. I have enough for two lifetimes.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[scubatreasure]

you truly are a generous man, well versed and obviously talented in the field of discovery. i would be honored and consider myself privileged to receive such information as you mentioned. i would seek your advise on what should be done with any of the procedes which would be left after i cover my expenses. and i promissed a young lady a substantial donation to her favorite charity.....she loves the animals ...god bless her heart....anyhoo.....how could i say no to Costa Rica.....surfs up and I'm hangin 10

 

[scubatreasure]

Hio: Don Jose de Lamancha
sorry for the belated responce i guess i was overwhelmed by your generosity. iam a simple man, work at the local funeral home ,burying our dead with love and respect and heart felt sympathy to those left behind....it takes alot out of me and some nights i simply pass out when i get in......i look forward to our conversations and the prospect of going to Costa Rica........this will make for a great adventure...and i hope if you cannot join me that you will at least guide me through this breathtaking opportunity
sincerely...................................................................Limo Bob

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good mornig Scuba: The Costa Rico data is freely given with NO strings. As I have menitoned, I have far too many thngs to do to go there for the immediate future, if you, or someone else, can benifit from my limited information go go.

The same applies for the other data.


To put things in proper prospective, remember, I was involved in the Guadalcanal campaign on Aug 11, 1942, I was just 18.. I am not considered as a spring chicken any more,.except to myself, but I have had fun, in fact I am still having fun. Perhaps you now understand why I will pass on the data to someone that is actually interested.

I lived when the world was not as today, there were still unexplored regions which I loved doing., there were treasures and ships to be salvaged freely. I did my part. This is why I was elected into the Elite Explorers club.

http://www.explorers.org/

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. I concentrated upon the often denied Jesuit mining activites, and their system of leap frogging the metal across Northern Mexico to the coast near Matamoros, then on to Rome. To finnish this for my thesis will take a few more years for sure, but, I already have the basic proof..

 

[scubatreasure]

ahoy: Don Jose de La Mancha
I understand , my dad was on the USS Wharton ship was at Guadalcanal...
i thought i would try to read some of the links you posted but unfortunately it has been busy week at work. We went into the explorers club link and found it fascinating, my dad was NYC iron worker retired after 40 years and was glad to see they are located in NYC...46 70Th st i believe, and we haven't been able to check on the lamp either next time i go on here like tomorrow....hope they taking you seriously, you have a way with the words..................................................................tomorrow my Friend
we talk then..........................Limo Bob

ps., I can imagine the fun you must have had...and the danger, and I'm not concerned who grows what as long as they don't shoot me for snoring we will be OK

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning Scuba: What a coincidence. I was transported there on the Wharton, a troop ship from ww-1, not a pleasant voyage. sheesh.

Incidentally, I was a watch on the starboard wing when the Captain asked me to notify him as soon as I saw land. I must have strained my eyes trying to see a bit of land pop up over the horizon, but nothing. Shortly the Capt came back to me as said "I asked you to report". I rel;replied, "Yes sir, but there isn't anything to report yet", He looked at me for a bit, then laughed. "What do you think that is over there" he said pointing out what I had imagined was a cloud. Sheesh it was one of Espiritu Santos' mountains, but not being a sea going swabbie I just didn't recognize it We anchored in the channel between Espiritu Santos and Efate.

Your dad may have mentioned the two aircraft that collided in the clouds killing both pilots as we anchored. And, of the two kiddies that constructed a very small row boat to go to Efate for a bit of leg stretching and coconuts. How on their return, they didn't know of such a thing as channel currents,. but finally made it back to the chip, but ---as they were alongside the ship, current caused waves of approximately 1+ ft. were flowing so when we came along side the bow of our small boat was caught under one of the overhanging plates on the dip of the wave and so simply stayed under the water, instantly swamping the boat. they hauled us up with lines sigh.

It was embarrassing .And so ended my first exploring trip in the Western Pacific.

I am in Tuscon at the moment, but as soon as I return home, I will post the pep talk memo that they issued to us. Your father might enjoy it. .
Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[mariner]

Don Jose,

I am intrigued as to how you know that the Costa Rica wreck is a Manila Galleon. Do you know its identity, and therefore the date it wrecked,and if so, how? And was it blown off course as it tried to reach Acapulco, or soon after it left Acapulco?

I think it is great that you have been willing to share some of the secrets that you don't have time to explore with others who might. My hat off to you.

Mariner

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good evening Mariner: Frankly I cannot fill you in those details, it was reported to me by my associate. we were going after it when he was involved in a nasty divorce which cleaned out his part of the finances, so it was put on hold. He has since died. He did mention that it was supposedly badly leaking from it's voyage, and before they could beach and caulk it, it sank, supposedly with the basic cargo still intact.. Whether there was any weather involved he never said.

But as I remember, it was found by the survey ship "Cotapaxie" (?) in the early 30's, but nothing was done to my knowledge. A little discrete diligence and search of the survey records in that period might pinpoint it for you. Banderas bay isn't that big, but quite muddy.

I played a very low key, since I didn't want to call undue attention to it and filed the basic information for possible future use. I turned to land recoveries instead, but always kept it on the back burner..

I hope that this helps a little. The period, why and wherefore, should be fairly easy to develop.

Don't ask me why it didn't anchor at Acapulco, I have no idea, weather preventing it?.

Feel completely free to ask questions etc., or to criticize. I still haven't found my man in Obregon for more details on the German sub. I may get to see him on my way back home this week. If so, I i will post the general details.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[mariner]

Don Jose,

Thanks for the response.

Acapulco was the destination for the Manila Galleons, so if one of them ended up in Costa Rica, it was because they overshot the mark, or got blown south west after leaving Acapulco for the return journey. If the ship was leaking after the voyage, it must have been travelling from Manila to Acapulco. This first leg was very gruelling and sometimes most of the crew dies of scurvy. Under these circumstances, the ship could have missed Acapulco and gone on to Costa Rica because there were just insufficient crew to make the harbor, but there must have been enough crew to get it in the general area, as natural currents would not do so. However, if there was information that the ship was leaking, that suggests a survivor who told the tale, and I know of none of the missing Galleons that supposedly wrecked near Costa Rica with someone to provide that information.

Not that that does not mean there isn't a wreck, and a treasure wreck at that, in that area, but I would very much doubt that it would be a Manila Galleon, given the probable lack of evidence.

Good luck, anyway with the project, Scuba. Let us know what you find.

Mariner

Amona,

I happen to be an Obama Supporter, but there is absolutely no eidence to suggest thyat he would be a supporter of THs rather than of the Conservationist/leave it where it is persuasion. Perhaps you have more info on his policies than he has disclosed to us in the USA. Don't hold your breath.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good evening Mariner: As I mentioned the details were with my partner. He claimed that It WAS a Manila Galleon, however since I have been playing a low key, I let this ride until I was ready to actually go on the campaign.

I personally am not going after it, not because I doubt it , but because I will still be years cleaning up Tayopa and finishing up the tracing of the missions that were used to leap frog the metal to Matamorros for trans shipment to Rome. I still have to locate many of them, they were one day's mule trip apart. This will probably require an ultra lite aircraft, low and slow.

It should be fairly simple to verify my data, if, or when one is ready to go after it.

For the archaeologists, there is a merchant ship carrying settlers to the northern end of the Sea of Cortez when it was caught in the "Sal si Puedes" (get out if you can, currents) and forced ashore just north of Tiburon island. The survivors were used as a smorgasbord by the Seri Indians while they lasted. It is in the surf zone to 30 ft.

Don Jose de La Mancha