Venezuelan wrecks

[Darren in NC]

It's time to dust off your files on them. It may soon be open for business.

 

[DizzyDigger]

Treasure hunters, without question, are indeed the "ultimate optimists" on the planet...

 

[Mackaydon]

Hello Darren,
Several years ago, my boat, the R/V Explorer (Roatan), was used at the site of the lost French fleet at Aves Island. The adventurers had in their possession only the second permit ever issued for TH--so it was said. Supposedly, the area was a marine santuary, off limits to others. But what was found was numerous privately owned vessels enjoying the ambiance of the islands--perhaps unaware of the dozen French navy vessels that were lost there in 1678. Nothing was found, but that may be because the organizer, (not me) didn't have the proper equipment.

With Maduro gone, maybe the Ven. government might be interested in assisting with recovery and display IF they are first presented with some artifacts from that fleet.
Darren, good to see we are both still on TN after more than 20 years.
All the best,
Don....(in SoCal)

DreamWrecks - The Galleon Fleet, Las Aves

Forty miles east of Bonaire, a large semi-submerged coral reef faintly peeps above the surface of the sea. This very dangerous and practically invisible reef has been known for centuries as a navigational trap. In its coral clutches lie the remains of an expedition by the French that could have...

dreamwrecks.com

 

[Crow]

Treasure hunters, without question, are indeed the "ultimate optimists" on the planet...View attachment 2239805

Of course. If they was not they would be the no treasure hunters.

Archivo General de Indias (General Archive of the Indies - AGI), Seville, Spain: This is a primary source for documents related to Spanish colonial maritime activities, including fleet movements, losses, and cargo manifests across the Caribbean. Researchers have used these records to identify hurricanes and ship losses in the region from the 16th to the 19th centuries. Venezuelan National Archives and Cultural Institutions: Domestic records, research, and data are held by Venezuelan institutions such as the Instituto de Patrimonio Cultural (IPC). These archives contain local reports and findings from survey campaigns. Other Spanish Archives: Additional relevant historical documents can be found in Spain at the Archivo del Museo Naval (Archive of the Naval Museum) in Madrid and the Archivo General de Simancas.

Access to these documents often requires specialized historical and climatological research methods to interpret. Modern policy, often adhering to the UNESCO Convention on the Protection of the Underwater Cultural Heritage (2001), focuses on the archaeological and historical value of shipwrecks rather than just treasure hunting. Documents generally remain the property of the respective governments (Spain, Venezuela, etc.), which dictate the terms of access and recovery.

Its getting harder to access these documents for the purpose of treasure hunting research.

Crow

 

[ARC]

Of course. If they was not they would be the no treasure hunters.

Archivo General de Indias (General Archive of the Indies - AGI), Seville, Spain: This is a primary source for documents related to Spanish colonial maritime activities, including fleet movements, losses, and cargo manifests across the Caribbean. Researchers have used these records to identify hurricanes and ship losses in the region from the 16th to the 19th centuries. Venezuelan National Archives and Cultural Institutions: Domestic records, research, and data are held by Venezuelan institutions such as the Instituto de Patrimonio Cultural (IPC). These archives contain local reports and findings from survey campaigns. Other Spanish Archives: Additional relevant historical documents can be found in Spain at the Archivo del Museo Naval (Archive of the Naval Museum) in Madrid and the Archivo General de Simancas.

Access to these documents often requires specialized historical and climatological research methods to interpret. Modern policy, often adhering to the UNESCO Convention on the Protection of the Underwater Cultural Heritage (2001), focuses on the archaeological and historical value of shipwrecks rather than just treasure hunting. Documents generally remain the property of the respective governments (Spain, Venezuela, etc.), which dictate the terms of access and recovery.

Its getting harder to access these documents for the purpose of treasure hunting research.

Crow

Actually... ..
The main stockpile of documents concerning the matters of wrecks / losses etc. are not housed in Seville.
It is known by opinions to be incorrect by a few.... me included.
The belief is...
that the main bulk of the "keys to the kingdoms losses and locations" are actually housed in Cuba... not Seville.
Which BTW...
Closely guards this information and will not allow outsiders to peruse them.... never have.... and probably never will.
Many have tried to gain access.

 

[Darren in NC]

I can't get into the Cuban archives, but Seville is no problem. Panama is a hidden gem for research material, too. If you need help with particular research, I don't mind helping out. But letting go of secrets is hard. Many treasure hunters are in love with the idea of recovering treasure - the romance and possibility of it all. They'd rather die with this hope, than do anything about it while they're living. But if you're willing to share, message me. Keep in mind, most people think they have secrets, only to find out that it is rehashed research already known about. But you never know. I still find the occasional wreck not seen before by the general public. The reason I can get into Seville is because I've learned to network over the years with staff and other professional researchers. Networking is critical for getting anything substantial done, especially in treasure hunting. Our group also has full funding for ANY project deemed to be worthwhile. So message me if you're ready to act on your project.

 

[Mackaydon]

I had given the adverturers another chart (different from the one shown in the first post) that showed the position of each vessel (and name) when they struck the reef. That chart was given to me by John de Bry (RIP) and I don't recall his source.
Don in SoCal

 

[ARC]

I can't get into the Cuban archives, but Seville is no problem. Panama is a hidden gem for research material, too. If you need help with particular research, I don't mind helping out. But letting go of secrets is hard. Many treasure hunters are in love with the idea of recovering treasure - the romance and possibility of it all. They'd rather die with this hope, than do anything about it while they're living. But if you're willing to share, message me. Keep in mind, most people think they have secrets, only to find out that it is rehashed research already known about. But you never know. I still find the occasional wreck not seen before by the general public. The reason I can get into Seville is because I've learned to network over the years with staff and other professional researchers. Networking is critical for getting anything substantial done, especially in treasure hunting. Our group also has full funding for ANY project deemed to be worthwhile. So message me if you're ready to act on your project.

I thought you were busy on the 1715 ?

 

[ARC]

I thought you were busy on the 1715 ?

Which... when talking about the Cuban Archives...
I also believe and would bet...
the "missing information(s)" regarding the 1715's ships INTIMATE details exist in that archive...
EXACT details that would answer any and all remaining questions concerning anything about that fleet and wreck site locations... even the San Miguel's... EVEN IF the exact location was not known... the estimated location would have been recorded / calculated.
(personally I have a theory on this location)

 

[Darren in NC]

ARC, the 1715 is a fun hobby. It is the easiest path to ownership of treasure. The ownership of its treasure has already been decided in the courts. So no lawsuits from any gov't institution. But it's playing around. You only find bits here and there, with the occasional windfall. And you only get 40% of what you recover, rarely paying for the expenses incurred, thus the need for "investors." I have spent decades researching far beyond the 1715 fleet for other viable wrecks. I have traveled the world looking for the best research, meeting with gov't officials and archive staff. I'm still just an amateur researcher compared to some the real professionals I've become friends with. Our attorneys just got turned down by yet another gov't regarding a very wealthy wreck. It's becoming pretty bleak out there in getting permits. But we still try. We have very wealthy backers, but we can't seem to find a gov't who will approve permits. You cant blame them anymore, as it wastes valuable time and taxpayer funds to fight over treasure/cultural heritage. They should have left it all alone, and let thousands of years of salvage law do its best. Now with the gov'ts involved, the finding of all these precious artifacts will grind to a halt. Only pirates will take the risk.

 

[Darren in NC]

I had given the adverturers another chart (different from the one shown in the first post) that showed the position of each vessel (and name) when they struck the reef. That chart was given to me by John de Bry (RIP) and I don't recall his source.
Don in SoCal

Good stuff, Don. You have probably forgotten more than what most treasure hunters ever learn.

 

[Colombiapictures]

The 400,000 pesos in gold of the "SAN PEDRO DE ALCANTARA" have never been salvaged. I remember Mel Fisher telling me about his expedition there.

 

[Blak bart]

Using simple common sense its easy to see that Venezuela will take years to stabilize and rebuild. First there must be a government that you can even negotiate with . Probably a transitional government will take years to just get the important infrastructure back online !! Whatever happens the people of Venezuela will be busy with the basic functions of government, and the thought of gaining permits for what we all do, will be the absolute last priority on the list of Venezuela. Any investors who would even entertain an idea like this would be taking risk on a level far beyond anything that a sane person would. It will more than likley be a decade + before any ideas like this would even be entertained by a government that hasn't formed yet. Take your money and invest in chevron, Halliburton, to begin with, and wait for a government to form !!

 

[Blak bart]

Hezbolah, hamas, farc, Iran, Russia, cuba, etc.......to name a few of the players on the ground here. I've left out as many more minor factions that are also in the game....like tren de Agua and others. It will be many years before any ideas such as we speak will even be able to be considered. But....the natural resources like gold, silver, and diamonds will be Booming quickly

 

[Colombiapictures]

Using simple common sense its easy to see that Venezuela will take years to stabilize and rebuild. First there must be a government that you can even negotiate with . Probably a transitional government will take years to just get the important infrastructure back online !! Whatever happens the people of Venezuela will be busy with the basic functions of government, and the thought of gaining permits for what we all do, will be the absolute last priority on the list of Venezuela. Any investors who would even entertain an idea like this would be taking risk on a level far beyond anything that a sane person would. It will more than likley be a decade + before any ideas like this would even be entertained by a government that hasn't formed yet. Take your money and invest in chevron, Halliburton, to begin with, and wait for a government to form !!

Here is the official declaration of Delcy Rodrigues, acting president for the next 90 days.

Below is the full text of the message, spread on Rodriguez's Instagram account:Venezuela reaffirms its vocation for peace and peaceful coexistence. Our country aspires to live without external threats, in an environment of respect and international cooperation. We believe that global peace is built by guaranteeing the peace of each nation first.We consider it a priority to move towards a balanced and respectful international relationship between the United States and Venezuela, and between Venezuela and the countries of the Region, based on sovereign equality and non-interference. These principles guide our diplomacy with the rest of the countries of the world.We extend the invitation to the US government to work together on a cooperation agenda, oriented to shared development, within the framework of international legality and strengthen a lasting community coexistence.President Donald Trump: Our peoples and our region deserve peace and dialogue, not war. That has always been the predicament of President Nicolás Maduro and it is that of the whole of Venezuela at this moment. That is the Venezuela I believe in, to which I have dedicated my life. My dream is that Venezuela will be a great power where all good Venezuelans will meet.

 

[Darren in NC]

It will more than likley be a decade + before any ideas like this would even be entertained by a government that hasn't formed yet. Take your money and invest in chevron, Halliburton, to begin with, and wait for a government to form !!

Bart, my OP was just a joke, thus the laugh emoji. I was simply reacting to the current events. I had no idea this thread would take a life of it's own.

 

[ARC]

Bart, my OP was just a joke, thus the laugh emoji. I was simply reacting to the current events. I had no idea this thread would take a life of it's own.

Sheesh...
and here i thought you were already there and applying for permits whilst gassing and gearing up.

Man... i am bummed now :P

 

[UnderMiner]

If and when Venezuela opens up to freedom and capitalism I'm going to metal detect the coast before the new government thinks about issuing any law against metal detecting. Maybe find some gold doubloons, or maybe some of the long lost treasures of the Inca. According to ledgend in the closing days of the Incan empire, as Francisco Pizarro amassed the gold and silver, western Venezuela was flooded with refugees some of whom hid vast sums of loot in the hills to keep it out of the hands of the Spanish.

 

[Colombiapictures]

If and when Venezuela opens up to freedom and capitalism I'm going to metal detect the coast before the new government thinks about issuing any law against metal detecting. Maybe find some gold doubloons, or maybe some of the long lost treasures of the Inca. According to ledgend in the closing days of the Incan empire, as Francisco Pizarro amassed the gold and silver, western Venezuela was flooded with refugees some of whom hid vast sums of loot in the hills to keep it out of the hands of the Spanish.

I would recommend you to go metaldetecting on the island of CUBAGUA. This is where the center of pearl fishing was in the 16th century. The Spanish called the pearls Margarita. this is why the gave the island of Margarits this name. the pearl fishing town was immensly rich because of the pearls. Then a Tsunami wiped out the town. The spaniards then moved to the island of Margarita. The spanish galleon SAN PEDRO DE ALCANTARA blew up in 1815 near the island of CUBAGUA. Most of the 15 tons or so of silver coins destined to pay the salaries of the 22,000 expeditionary force were later salvaged. However, about 400,000 pesos in gold coins destined to pay for the budget of the expeditionary force were never found and are probably still on the bottom of the bay. Mel fisher told me he and another famous treasure hunter ( was it Art McKey? ) had a different theory. They believed that General Murillo had buried the gold on Cubagua before the ship blew up. This is why they went to ground truth on the island.
Anyway Mel s story is an interesting one, maybe I tell it another time.

 

[UnderMiner]

I would recommend you to go metaldetecting on the island of CUBAGUA. This is where the center of pearl fishing was in the 16th century. The Spanish called the pearls Margarita. this is why the gave the island of Margarits this name. the pearl fishing town was immensly rich because of the pearls. Then a Tsunami wiped out the town. The spaniards then moved to the island of Margarita. The spanish galleon SAN PEDRO DE ALCANTARA blew up in 1815 near the island of CUBAGUA. Most of the 15 tons or so of silver coins destined to pay the salaries of the 22,000 expeditionary force were later salvaged. However, about 400,000 pesos in gold coins destined to pay for the budget of the expeditionary force were never found and are probably still on the bottom of the bay. Mel fisher told me he and another famous treasure hunter ( was it Art McKey? ) had a different theory. They believed that General Murillo had buried the gold on Cubagua before the ship blew up. This is why they went to ground truth on the island.
Anyway Mel s story is an interesting one, maybe I tell it another time.

Interesting! I always wanted to go on a real hardcore treasure hunt like this, find some actual life-changing loot from centuries past, Indiana Jones style. We should create some sort of expedition club together - treasure hunters formed into a kind of crew, pirate rules, equal shares for all the loot we recover together. If the Venezuelan government, and perhaps soon Cuba too - or the whole of the Caribbean, suddenly "flips" - this could soon be the greatest time for treasure hunting in the Caribbean since the days immediately following the War of the Spanish Succession!