Vero bch. FL. Oldest carving in U.S.

[GatorBoy]

A very interesting artifact made the local paper again today.
"Mammoth carving..on Mammoth bone" 20,000-23,000 yrs. Old?

 

[rock]

Thank you all very much for your kind comments, We finished the filming today. I got a bunch of cool pics to show you as soon as I figure out how to get them on here. the show is going to air sometime around Christmas.

Just a thought but maybe you can send the pics to a member here and then they can post the pics to a thread you started. I know I have done it before when I find something and dont have my camera with me. Id like to see the pics and it sounds very interesting.

 

[GatorBoy]

http://m.livescience.com/20088-early-floridians-mingled-mammoths-mastodons.html

 

[Charl]

Old Vero Man Site History- Old Vero Ice Age Sites Commitee- preserving and appropriately excavating important Ice Age archaeological and paleontological sites in Vero Beach and Indian River County

 

[dennco2000]

Hard to imagine a big critter like that roaming around Florida but while doing some cave diving a few years back I used to find what looked be mammoth teeth and or jaw bone on several occasions.

 

[GatorBoy]

I find giant sloth,Mastodon,Mammoth..even horse ect..on the beaches in the same area.
Still looking for my Mastodon tooth..all I've found is pieces.
I have a tusk tip here.

 

[lookindown]

The worst part was the wait Mr Gator, I knew the thing was real but I had to wait on 150 archaeologists among every other type of sientist from all 4 corners of our planet to say it was. it went threw every test and scan known to modern man and then some to make sure it was real and passed them all.the unbelievable part is the jealousy there have been so many poo talkers about my find that know nothing other than they just wish it was theirs, to them Iv one thing to say(CARMA IS A B***H) the funny thing is it sat under my sink for years in a box with a dozen other bone frags I found that day. a splash of water and just the right lighting was the only reason I noticed the engraving. those who only see the pictures don't realize how faint the engraving is. the awesome photographer at the Smithsonian is the reason its even noticeable same with the copy at gainsville that also was made by the people at the Smithsonian it had to be emphasized so it could be seen. now Im gona share something very very few other than scientists involved know, there is another carved bone I found that dwarfs the other. But Iv decided to handle this one myself I refuse to go threw that hell again. its for sale also and I don't care whos feelings it hurts. Scott Wolter is coming to my home on the 8th to film a show with me for history channel, you may know it its called America Unearthed after that Im selling this one to the highest bidder. I have a genuine love for history but I have a slightly greater love for piece of mind.

Man, you are a legend...welcome to T-NET.

 

[Tnmountains]

Yes a true legend. I remember how excited everyone was when that was found. I was getting e-mails from everyone. I think it was posted to my Facebook wall at one time. Glad that you are here and are taking us along on your journey. What an amazing item.

Welcome to TreasureNet ! Look forward to seeing the show.

 

[GatorBoy]

I really hope some period projectile points from that area are shown.
I personally have never seen one.
I found mention of stone artifacts but no specifics.

 

[GatorBoy]

Vero beach is basically due east from the north end of the big lake.



This map was put out in 2008

 

[mcb66]

The episode finally aired with Mr. Kennedys finds. The best episode ever of the series. At least the most rational one anyway.

 

[GatorBoy]

I saw it.
That was an outstanding episode for someone who loves Florida history.
They talked about the Clovis and Soulutrean theories of how North America was populated... And did a big section on the Windover bog site.
All this is close to my home.. It was a very entertaining episode for sure.
.... Mr. Kennedy... if you see this.... I thought you did a great job on the show.. Maybe we could do a little hunting sometime.

 

[tamrock]

I watched this America Unearthed episode of the Florida bog people for the first time this last weekend. I was becoming somewhat disappointed in the AU show and this story sure changed that opinion. To me the find of the etched mammoth bone is at the top of the heap in north American artifact finds. I also found it very interesting about the blade Dennis Stanford claimed was made of chert that came from France 'I think he said?, I'm so interested in any story of the Solutrean hypothesis. Last week on the road I listen to a NPR episode on the extinction theory of the Ice age beasts, as that also is one of my favorite subjects of interest.
Woolly Mammoths' Taste For Flowers May Have Been Their Undoing : The Salt : NPR

Thanks for the map Gator Boy. My travels take me allot to the US western basin and range were you see all the large lakes of that era. I like hunting artifacts as I travel the western states.

 

[ncnurseryman]

Just watched the episode online. I wonder what the next steps are for the second bone artifact with the man and fish etched on it will be. The first bone carved artifact along with the artifact made from French oriented chert really lend credence to the solutrean theory. I am always fascinated by what man can do and has been able to do in the past despite what "experts" say isn't possible. Glad to see that the vero site is going to be further studied.

 

[drewa1977]

The discovery channel has a documentary called ice age Columbus. I show this to my students every year when we discuss possible theory's of the first Americans. I believe it is on youtube also. Very good explanation of the Solutrean theory.

 

[GatorBoy]

Thank you for chipping that in.
You sound like a very good teacher.

 

[unclemac]

DNA tells an interesting story.....

 

[GatorBoy]

DNA has been taken as far back as neanderthal ... Which happened to be Asian.
They had a very very very long time to migrate in any direction

 

[unclemac]

DNA evidence for Native Americans is a little more specific than that...

 

[Charl]

Not everyone is thrilled with the quality of "research" presented by the principals in America Unearthed. Here is some interesting background, followed by an in depth analysis of the "bog" episode and the misinformation it presented.

Review of America Unearthed S02E11 "Swamp Mammoth" - JasonColavito.com
Excerpts:

“Tipster” Candida Gut, who wrote the email, says that she watched the 2003 TLC documentary discussed in the background material above, which prompted her to want to find Europeans in ancient America, and she summarizes the program for Wolter, who is wearing a shirt with a carefully-positioned corporate logo that is always in frame for maximum product placement. Wolter discusses how bogs preserve human bodies, and he gives a false and over-simplified view of the peopling of the Americas, wrongly suggesting that schoolbooks teach that the first Americans were “Clovis” people, something that has not been taught uncritically since the late 1980s. This is part of the theme of the evening, whereby Wolter repeatedly rants about his schooling and how confusing it is that somehow science has learned new things since then. He has not bothered to keep up and still thinks that his high school textbooks represent OFFICIAL DOGMA.


He seems to confuse Clovis-first, the outdated mid-century theory, with the idea of the peopling of the Americas from northeast Asia, now believed to have occurred prior to the Clovis period thanks to the discoveries at Monte Verde and elsewhere. Gut and Wolter say that they believe that the first Americans were Europeans, and Wolter even denies that Paleoindians were the ancestors of Native Americans, sniffing that “some think” this while there are other, more European possibilities. The fact that repeated genetic studies have found Paleoindian remains to be genetically related to Asian populations does not factor into his speculation."

------------------------
"I will give America Unearthed this much credit: Because this episode is based on the ideas of Dennis Stanford, it is much more logical than most—not that this says too much—and tends to rely on more solid evidence, even if it never bothered to do even cursory research into the basis for the claims it promotes, or raised more than token hints that there are strong objections to most of the claims. America Unearthed is a show about personalities, so it doesn’t matter, really, whether the evidence is logical or rigorous since the criteria for acceptance are whether Scott Wolter and thus the audience thinks that the advocate is a nice guy or part of the conspiracy to suppress the truth. Thus it becomes possible to believe Dennis Stanford even while simultaneously believing in a conspiracy by his employer to suppress the “truth” he’s appearing on national television to proclaim.

The Solutrean hypothesis is not impossible, but surely even a cheap cable documentary can offer a stronger case for it than this."

--------------------------------------------------------------
The Windover bog people were not even interpreted as European by the original researchers:

"My original results of the mitochondrial DNA did show European haplotypes which I feel was due to contamination of the tissue at the time of collection. I told the producer that the most parsimonious explanation was that the results were due to contamination at the excavation but they wanted a "sexier" interpretation. In the interview I was asked questions along the lines of "if the results of the analysis were not due to contamination would this indicate European ancestry..." but I adamantly hold to my position that the results most likely were due to contamination. Subsequent analysis of mtDNA from teeth showed that the skeletal DNA was concordant with Asian origins of the individuals."

So, they are not European at all. No mention of that basic fact!

 

[Tnmountains]

Good stuff.