Videotape the harassment.

[Rockin Chairs Gold]

You need something in writing from the City manager or chief of police, problem solved.
I think it would be simpler way.

I agree.

I made a post earlier about getting a letter from the city mayor to detect a piece of city property and was told My situation was different because it was about a piece of posted property.

But the truth of the matter is it isn't any different at all. If you are having a problem with a city official, go to the top, The City Mayor or Manager. They are the head of the food chain if you will (Top of command). Explain your problem to them and request a letter to hunt & retrieve your target on city property.
If they will give you that letter, just present it to who ever gives you any lip and let them take it up with the top brass. I was really surprised how nice and accommodating our city Mayor was with my request. They may not all be that easy but what can it hurt to ask, your back is already against a wall.

In my 42 years in this hobby I have never had a problem from a police officer and have in fact been backed up by a couple when people tried to run me off city property. The only problem I have ever faced was in a small town and it was the Mayor who told the police officer to tell us to leave, and the police officer even apologized as he said he saw no problem with what we were doing.

Rick

 

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[Goodyguy]

Federal Laws
Metal detectors are banned in any US federal park. Additionally, no monuments or historical sites allow you to use a metal detector on their grounds.

National Parks
Not only are you not allowed to use a metal detector while visiting a national park, you could theoretically be arrested for simply having a metal detector in your vehicle.

State Parks
The laws regarding metal detectors in state parks vary between states. For example, in Michigan there are no laws prohibiting the use of metal detectors. Minnesota, however, has a statewide ban on them.

Types of Violations
Metal detector laws fall into many categories. In some federal parks, using a metal detector can be considered "destruction of government property." In many state parks with laws against metal detectors, the violation is classified as a form of vandalism.


Make yourself a permit and see if it flies. Laminate it and wear it like an ID badge
http://www.idfakes.com/ FREE!

Sample..... *for entertainment only

 

[Coinstriking Michigan]

So the issue is finally resolved. The parks director had the city council pass an ordinance making it illegal to metal detect on any sodded surface withing the City of Gladstone. I don't wish bad things on people but this "woman" is pushing me to that extent.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

farscaspe, I have often said that there are a lot of parks, schools, etc... where no one cares, UNTIL you ask. Ie.: you get a "no", where, quite frankly, no one would ever cared or noticed, till you brought the "pressing issue" to their attention (and we all know what the easy answer is).

You situation now brings truth to "No one cares, till you fight it". Ie.: the matter might have gone away, in your city, had you just avoided *just* this one woman, or *just* this one park, etc.... for awhile perhaps.

Here's a true story to illustrate this:

A fellow in a midwestern state got booted from a particular state park, where he had never had a problem before. When he asked the ranger "why?", the ranger would only say "because it's not allowed". Any attempt to ask "where's that written?" seemed to be starting an argument, so the md'r just left. Once he got home, he researched the matter, and found that ..... in fact .... there was no specific prohibition of metal detecting in his state parks, barring something silly to morph to apply to it (cultural heritage wording, etc...). Thus, he felt he had been arbitrarily booted, and felt like he should fight it, video-tape it, etc.. But in the course of his research into his state's laws, he found out, coincidentally, that the neighboring state had verbage that actually ALLOWED detecting in their state parks (albeit perhaps only on sandy beaches, non-historic monuments, etc...).

The md'r thought "wouldn't it be cool if our own state had such clarifications and wording, so that individual rangers weren't left up to their capricious whims and interpretations?!" So he set about letter writing to the highest-up dept. managers in his state's park's dept, objecting to his booting, and suggesting that they implement wording similar to the neighboring state, etc... And he got solidarity amongst his club members and others in the state to rally to object to his booting, and press for clarifications, etc...

Weeks went by, and he got no response from the state capitol. Finally, a month or two later, while still awaiting a reply, the md'r happened to be metal detecting in ANOTHER state park, that he had never had a problem at. But THIS time, he got booted, by a ranger he had seen before, who had never cared. So he asked the ranger "but why? since when? etc...". The ranger pulls a paper from his pocket, to show the md'r. It was a department memo xerox that had just come down from state capitol, to all the individual parks, to "be on the lookout for metal detectors, as this activity is not allowed" blah blah blah. And when the md'r looked at what this ranger was showing him, guess who it was signed by?? The VERY same high-up bureaucrat whom the md'r had been petitioning for clarifications, sanction, etc.....!

The connection was obvious: the person in state capitol must've gotten all the letters and petitions, looked into the matter, and sent out this memo, effectively creating a new rule. The md'r couldn't help but think that he should have left good enough alone at the first park, and just avoided just that one park, or one ranger. Even his fellow hobbyists in that state, when they got word of this (that now state parks were off-limits), felt he had stirred a hornets nest, that would have been better left alone.

So guys, we need to be careful about this solidarity, fighting thing. Sometimes it's better just to use a little discretion, go at off times when busy-bodies aren't around, etc....

 

[Coinstriking Michigan]

Well Tom I understand your point somewhat. I guess you would have to live here to really understand how this whole thing went down. I live in a town of 5 thousand people and we have 1 park. Metal detecting has been allowed for years and years until this woman became the parks director. She is just rotten to the core. Not only with metal detecting but anything she can yell at somebody for. When she first started harassing me, there was no ordinance against detecting whatsoever but she sweet talked the police into telling me to leave anyway. That's the main issue I have. You can't create a law on the spot just because you don't like something, and the police should have known better.

 

[Coinstriking Michigan]

They were obviously chummy with her and so they just do whatever she says. What man in their right mind would tolerate that?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Farscape, yes I acknowledge that each situation is different, and sometimes ...... there is reason to fight something, rather than just avoid one person, or lay low for awhile. I grant you that.

You say your angst was d/t "You can't create a law ...... just because you don't like something Yet it appears that this is exactly what she did (eventually anyhow) is getting a law created to address the pressing issue :P And yes, I acknowledge that perhaps there was no way to avoid her (as perhaps she lives right across the from the park?). If it were me, and the park had lots of old silver coins still there, I'd have simply gone at night, etc... (while there was still no actual law). But that's just me. I hunt parks at night all the time, NOT because there's a law prohibiting detecting, but merely to avoid having busy bodies think one should be enacted. But again, this is just me, and I live in a much bigger city, so "spreading myself out" is a bit easier, so as not to be an "eyesore".

There was one park, in one part of CA, that I used to always hunt when I was passing through that part of the state (barbers and IH's, early mercs, etc...). I had never had a problem nor had the persons who told me about the park (having detected there even back as far as the late 1970s). However, one time, about 10 yrs. ago, we had a lady cop boot us. As it turns out, we were leaving anyhow, so we didn't gripe. We just left. Since I didn't go through that part of the state that often, it was nearly a year before I was travelling through there again. I helped myself once again, and many times since then. I have never been bothered any more. So who knows? Perhaps a cop having a bad day? Perhaps a cop who has since retired, or is now in a desk job, and no one else on the beat there care's less? etc... But you can see: if I had thought "I need to fight this", that, ...... heck, perhaps a law would actually have been written to address this.

Again, I acknowledge that things might be different elsewhere. But in general, I think we all need to be careful about making stinks about ourselves, in areas where we can just be a little more discreet, instead.

 

[Coinstriking Michigan]

There's a lot of truth in what you say Tom. I wish I could be more relaxed when it comes to things like that. The ignorance bothers me so much though. I've been detecting for about 15 years, and let me tell you, there are much worse things a young guy could be out doing. I've never been in trouble with the law and they know that, obviously living here my whole life and being a tiny town. So I tend to get a bit heated when a clueless, new, city employee has to act like a...you know what for no reason other than her own enlarged ego.

 

[savant365]

So the issue is finally resolved. The parks director had the city council pass an ordinance making it illegal to metal detect on any sodded surface withing the City of Gladstone. I don't wish bad things on people but this "woman" is pushing me to that extent.

Does your city have council meetings there? If you want to fight this you should go to public meeting and plead your case. I don't recommend threatening them with lawsuits but I would definitely let them know thats it's an option. They may just repeal it to avoid the hassle. I had a similar situation here in a town of 10,000, some bonehead decided to take a folding type military shovel to the park and dig basketball sized holes and left dead patches of grass all over. I was told after that metal detecting was not allowed anymore. I complied with the parks guy that told me but I can go on Sunday mornings and no one bothers me. I didn't make a big stink about it because I was afraid they would pass an ordinance here. If it does become an issue again though I plan on fighting it. Good luck,

HH Charlie

 

[bigtim1973]

My brother had an issue with a so called "local historian" who was hunting the pick nick areas up and down the highway looking for old relics and stuff. This jerk lied to my brother and said he could not do it because it was not legal and that he had permission from the county courthouse to do it in the local area. My brother wrote to the Governor of the state of Texas and got permission to hunt anywhere he wanted along public roads and right of ways as long as there was not any no trespassing signs posted for the entire state of Texas. He carried the letter everywhere when he went detecting and when the other jerk saw my brother detecting at the local rest areas he went over to him and tried to start some crap. My brother just pulled the letter from the governor out of his wallet and shoved it in the jerks face. Maybe you should go higher than the local bunch and do what my brother did. These busy bodies are always up to no good. They have to be the most miserble people in the world. Just a bunch of overgrown spoiled brats. Tim

 

[dirtyJohn]

Here's a thought.

Next time this woman approaches you, admit to her that the only reason you keep going back to this park is in the hopes of seeing her again. Tell her you can't get her out of your mind then ask her for a date. Hopefully what will happen is she will say no but be flattered by your comments, then everytime she sees you detecting in that park she'll think you're there to see her so she'll leave you alone, unless she accepts your offer on the date and well then you're on your own.
HH
John

 

[bigtim1973]

Here's a thought.

Next time this woman approaches you, admit to her that the only reason you keep going back to this park is in the hopes of seeing her again. Tell her you can't get her out of your mind then ask her for a date. Hopefully what will happen is she will say no but be flattered by your comments, then everytime she sees you detecting in that park she'll think you're there to see her so she'll leave you alone, unless she accepts your offer on the date and well then you're on your own.
HH
John

Now that is great!!!

 

[Rockin Chairs Gold]

Try to get some feedback and backing from someone of authority over the parks director such as the mayor or a council member, etc. As a former department manager in a large city I have had to deal with nit picking politics and and a few times have had to go over the complainer's head to get things resolved. Petit politics is a pain in the arse but unfortunately something we all have to contend with at one time or another. Usually when this sort of issue comes to a head, the offending party tries to get a law passed to prevent you from detecting in the park at all. Be sure to line up all the support you can if it comes to that. ie: be ready to get your friends and allies to attend any public hearing if such a law is being discussed or contemplated. If you are forced to play the politics game, you will need to get all the public support behind you that you can. Be ready to take it all the way. Monty

The problem with that Monty is this is a town of only 4,800 people so they are all buddy buddy with each other. I'm just wondering if she has the right to tell me to leave even though no ordinance prohibits it. So that's why I though of the video camera idea, she may not want to incriminate herself stretching the truth and being a bully on camera.

I can tell you this much about politics(any person in a position of power). They can put out a lot of smoke but shy away from the light. Your camera would be the light.

Monties idea about the letter from someone above her to back up your position is a good one. Especially the Mayor, He is the head of the food chain in the politics of any town, villiage or city. Rick

 

[spartacus53]

Make sure you're using a digital recorder.. This way you will have enough memory for your questioning, arrest, trail and your incarceration

 

[mfitzy111]

There's a lot of truth in what you say Tom. I wish I could be more relaxed when it comes to things like that. The ignorance bothers me so much though. I've been detecting for about 15 years, and let me tell you, there are much worse things a young guy could be out doing. I've never been in trouble with the law and they know that, obviously living here my whole life and being a tiny town. So I tend to get a bit heated when a clueless, new, city employee has to act like a...you know what for no reason other than her own enlarged ego.

farscape - another idea is find out if her post she was some how elected to that position - or she applied for that job, contact her boss and explain to them that you'd do that job for a few thousand less a year. replace her if you can, because I'm sure if enough people display disgust to her, her boss isn't likely going to want her around forever either....just a thought.

or maybe you should run for mayor and change that stupid law when you win. seriously. worst case - vote with your feet and move some place with out that hassle....

 

[Goodyguy]

farscape - another idea is find out if her post she was some how elected to that position - or she applied for that job, contact her boss and explain to them that you'd do that job for a few thousand less a year. replace her if you can, because I'm sure if enough people display disgust to her, her boss isn't likely going to want her around forever either....just a thought.

or maybe you should run for mayor and change that stupid law when you win. seriously. worst case - vote with your feet and move some place with out that hassle....

Mfitzy


Farscape,
Also If she has been heavy handed with others perhaps you could get up a petition and show it to the Mayor and if she isn't related to him (or friends with his wife) he may have her removed from that position or at least tell her to ease up. Mayors in small towns listen to petitions because to him every signature is a vote for or against him in the next election!

GG~

 

[vpnavy]

Everyone has valid reasons - but, when it comes to MD'ng - if I am asked to leave (for whatever reason and by whoever) - I just accept it and move on. Sure, you can fight it and win - but do you really win? I mean when you consider all the time, resources, aggravation, etc. that could be focused on other areas of your hobby - is it really worth your time? No flamming - this is just my stupid opinion.

 

[DigitNY]

Try to get a lawyer who cares about public rights and see what he can accomplish or find out for you, till then keep hittin the park and when she asks you to leave, just leave. If this has happened repeated times, she obviously knows she cannot arrest you or she would have had police arrest you already. They are just Harrassing you, because that's all she can do.

 

[Atomic Ed]

Here's a thought.

Next time this woman approaches you, admit to her that the only reason you keep going back to this park is in the hopes of seeing her again. Tell her you can't get her out of your mind then ask her for a date. Hopefully what will happen is she will say no but be flattered by your comments, then everytime she sees you detecting in that park she'll think you're there to see her so she'll leave you alone, unless she accepts your offer on the date and well then you're on your own.
HH
John

That is terrific!

 

[doc-d]

Interesting posts......life has so many battles we cannot avoid, it seems best to avoid those we can.......if there were other places to MD, it may be best to go elsewhere.........but if this is important, and you are right, fight the battle.