Videotape the harassment.

[drewan29]

If you do go to a city council meeting make sure you bring a bunch of junk with you and tell them this was found in such in such place on this day glass nails pulltabs some coins the stuff you find everyday. Better yet instead of taping the harassment tape a hunt at another spot from start to finish so that they the council members can see what you dig how you dig and how you leave the area after and what you do with your trash show them the day and the life of our hobby. I know when I was detecting a beach here I had a bunch of can slaw some glass and a big spike in my pouch and when people saw that they asked if I found that in the water? I said yup and then they thanked me and said that I should get paid to clean out the junk . when people see what is found they stop the gawking and think this person just saved me a trip to the ER or since that person been detecting here you don't see as many beer bottle tops. I have seen the guys who maintain the park walk by bottle caps because the couldn't spear and put it in their trash bag.
HH-drewan

 

[Woodland Detectors]

You need something in writing from the City manager or chief of police, problem solved.
I think it would be simpler way.

I agree.

 

[Rockin Chairs Gold]

I had been eye balling a piece of property the city purchased recently. I knew the history behind the property and it was used as a private club and covered many acres. The property was posted for no treaspassing.

I finally got up enough nerve to go talk to the police about getting permission to hunt the property with my metal detector and they said I needed to talk to the Mayor. I went and talked to him on Monday and to my suprise he had no objections as long as we let the police know we would be on the property each time we went out. I asked him for something in writing because the property was posted and he had his secretary type up a letter of permission. So now anytime we want to go out there I simply call the police a let them know we will be there and how many will be in the party. We also always carry a copy of the permission letter with us. Rick

 

[ohioaxeman]

ok... listen up... go to the park and swing your machine but stay in one place. when the cops come up and ask what your doing say" i'm checking out my new dip chit detector" and swing it up by his badges... beep beep beep... and so on and so on...lol

 

[Coinstriking Michigan]

I appreciate all the feedback lots of good ideas. I wish you folks all had the chance to meet this woman. She is the lowest quality person I have ever met and very rude. She even went so far as to tell a 70 something older gentleman that he couldn't detect on the sand of our local beach after the beach was closed. I had a letter printed in our local paper last week about this hopefully they realize I should have the right to utilize the park like everyone else.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Rockin' chairs: your solution of going to the mayor, etc... is different. Because in your case, the spot was posted "no trespassing". So it would have no bearing on a park, where persons are allowed to be.

And in general, for everyone's answers, take careful note of Farscape's busy-body lady: Apparently, she is a real .... uh ... "case". Thus, I would not infer from Farscapes hoops, or bootings he went through, etc... that this is reason we should all "grovel" at city halls, etc... ,or need "permission", before thinking we can hunt in parks. Only because of one grump, is farscape having to deal with this. But this, in no way, means that "the best thing is to get permission, city to city as we travel", or whatever. On the contrary, most places we (fortunately) do NOT run into nuisance people like this.

 

[Coinstriking Michigan]

I'm wondering what would happen is she called the cops on me and if they told me to leave I refused. I will say until you present me with a law or ordinance stating I can't metal detect I am breaking no law and I won't leave.

 

[Monty]

I have read a lot of good ideas here, but I think organizing a youth group for a picnic and teaching them how to metal detedt would be a tremendous idea. Even small towns have some sort of youth organizations such a Boy or Girl scouts. You could show them how to find "treasure" by planting some coins or prizes for them, etc.. and teach them how to dig without being harmful to the grass and plants and to remove trash while they are at it. You might check to see if there is a local detecting club that could help you put it on. Elected officials love to get behind this sort of thing and you might persuade some to the "good old boys" to pitch in and help and perhaps local merchants to sponsor prizes or donations.
I wouldn't press it to the point of getting yourself arrested though. That might set a precedence if you get convicted of some vague ordinance such as one forbidding damage to the flora and fauna as I have seen in some small towns and cities. You could approach the subject with the notion of how to prevent such damage. Just some thoughts. Monty

 

[deepskyal]

Good point Monty and one I haven't seen anyone mention. AND...I have seen posted! Do not damage any shrubbery, trees or grass.
There's your catch-all! Better make sure there isn't something like that on the books or getting yourself arrested could be a bigger problem than you think.
Go down to your borough office and request to read the park rules and regs before you procede.

Al

 

[maipenrai]

I'm sure that MDing, is ok most places, but there is a difference in just swinging your maching, and digging. We all know there are different people with different digging techniques, some leave no sign of digging, some leave a 2 foot hole. My digging technique is not great, and when I had just a small garden hoe, it was even worse. So if you are digging holes in a park, I would guess that there are some kind of rules that apply to destroying public property, and I wouldn't push the issue about detecting. The only problem with going to the chief and asking for a paper, is that you may not get that paper, so if you get caught again, you cant say "I didn't know".

 

[dogpound]

ok... listen up... go to the park and swing your machine but stay in one place. when the cops come up and ask what your doing say" i'm checking out my new dip chit detector" and swing it up by his badges... beep beep beep... and so on and so on...lol

and also make sure you have your video camera when ya do this cause it could look like a rodney king beating afterward

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Maipenrai, you say:

"there are some kind of rules that apply to destroying public property"

If you are "destroying public property", then I would suggest you return to proper recovery techniques 101 class.

Because if you make the "necessary connection" that "detecting = destruction", then you might as well give it up, and choose another hobby. We can't think of ourselves in that light. To do so, and you've lost the battle, before you start. You can and will NEVER get permission to go anywhere. I mean, think of it: Can you imagine going into any city hall, ANYWHERE, and asking the desk clerk: "Hi, can I damage and destroy the park?" and see what they say

On the contrary, rules that forbid damage, destruction, and vandalism ALL imply END results, right? Ie.: if you've left no trace of your having been there, then by simple definition, you have not "damaged, defaced, or destroyed", right? To think otherwise, you might as well give up now.

There's been scores of posts on proper turf recovery techniques (leaving the root ball in-tact, using a catch mat for stray crumbs, stomping the plug afterwards to make sure it sets in tight and flat, ruffling the end result with your fingers to fluff the grass back up, not going during high-dry-summer dry-soil times, etc.. etc....).

 

[rusty nail]

videotapeing is a bad idea! just go to the city offices ask to see the rule's and regulations for the park. and or ask for the city or township law!! its as simple as that.

 

[maipenrai]

Mr. Tom,

Thank you for your course in coin removal, but you kinda missed the point of my post.

The point was that any kind of digging may be classed as destroying public property, it is not my idea, it was just a thought, why they may have a rule against it. I doubt that the parks manager or chief of police are going to go to the park with you, while you demonstrate your technique to prove your skill. The law is usually for everyone, but it is probably near impossible for them to understand the difference between removing a plug, and using a back hoe.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

maipenrai, you say:

"any kind of digging may be classed as destroying public property"

I would agree. People "may" do that. They may also say we're stealing goods that belong to the public. They may say we're harming earthworms. They may say we're violating lost & found laws, etc.... They may say lots of things. I don't doubt that. We're in an odd hobby that draws the stares of the curious, unfortunately (ie.: "what's that guy with the geiger-counter-thingy doing over there? I wonder if he intends to cover that hole?" etc...) So since it's such an odd hobby, with the necessary temporary evil of retrieval, you almost HAVE to decide now, ahead of time, that you are not "destroying" (that is, that your end result of leaving no trace, negates this defintion). If you worry that someone else may not arrive at this conclusion (and you're right, some may not), then you have probably chosen the wrong hobby.

It would be like this: If I worry that someone may flip me off in traffic, because they felt I cut them off, or tailgated, etc.... then I might as well not drive "just to be safe". I mean, it's inevitable, that no matter how careful all of us are, that someone in traffic is going to flip you off, d/t they think you're going to slow, or whatever. Does that stop you from driving? No.

 

[NHBandit]

You need something in writing from the City manager or chief of police, problem solved.
I think it would be simpler way.

I agree.

Also agree. That piece of paper is your "get out of jail free" card. The guys that reccomend hiring a lawyer, filing a lawsuit, taking it to the Supreme Court, whatever, must have nothing better to do with their time & money. The patriots who comment about what a free country this is are technically right too.. but.. the sad reality is that the police (especially small town cops) have an invisible law in their favor. It's the "because I said so" rule and while you won't find it in writing it exists everywhere. It means you might win this one but you will be stopped regularly because "I thought you had a tail light out", you will never get off with a warning on a traffic ticket even if you were only going 3 mph over the speed limit, etc. Yep it's wrong, yep it's an abuse of power, yep it happens everyday. Deal with it or blow your retirement plan on legal fees.

 

[Red James Cash]

You realize that you have the right to disobey a cop if he is committing an illegal act against you. Kicking you out of a park that you have the right to be in is illegal . File a lawsuit and stick it to them,sometimes thats the only thing they will understand. In their minds might makes right, a lawsuit is mightier than a ticket.

 

[LM]

The courts exist for a reason.
Apathy is what allows this sort of thing to occur.

50 years ago, we were a people who jumped like a spooked puppy the instant anyone threatened our rights or a government official got heavy handed. As such, government officials behaved in accord. They served us. Today, we're a whipped people who 'don't have the time' to stand up for our rights and naturally, government officials now do whatever they please and the whims of bureaucrats rule the day.

I agree the diplomatic approach is the right approach here, if for no reason other than tactics.
If you go in spraying vinegar from the outset, potentially friendly parties will be turned off and you might find yourself being the reason a firm ordnance gets passed. On the other hand, if you meet with someone over her head and coolly present the fact that there are no laws or regulations against MD'ing the park and the particular manager is out of line, you might find a friendly ear.

First, diplomacy. If not diplomacy, I'm of the opinion that the endless diplomatic appealing in the face of stonewalling bureaucrats is pointless and you move straight to the court case.

Beware of recording them- many states are employing various contortions of 'wiretapping' and 'eavesdropping' laws to arrest people who record them without their knowledge and catch them acting like morons. It's happening here in Chicago, particularly with boorish cops who get recorded acting like idiots. This will eventually make the Supreme Court but in the meantime, it's how the system strikes back against someone who exposes it. Also, while you may not be breaking any laws in MD'ing, 'taking a stand against the cops' is pretty damn pointless. There are just too many catch-all laws they can use to arrest you on the spot that appealing to the logical capacity of someone who chose to be a cop as their life's work probably isn't going to be productive.

 

[bicycleman]

Good points here. The problem with donut grazers is that they expect you to "obey their commands". They enjoy arresting innocent people. The main problem here is that it is expensive to play defense where the lady calling the donut grazers(playing offense) is very cheap. Unfortunately since 9/11 and Brownshirt legislation like the Patriot Act we are all losing rights. I believe the terrorists have won.

 

[LadyDragonWolf]

Yeah, I don't understand why they are KICKING YOU OUT. They can ask you to stop detecting/digging, but they can't technically kick you out altogether. That would have to mean that you are trespassing, which would mean it is private property and not a public park, and therefore they would have to kick EVERYONE out. Everyone has great ideas here, and to me, all of them sound feasible.

Contact a lawyer before making any kind of move.

Next time they ask you to leave, POLITELY inform them that:
A) You are not aware of any laws, rules, or regulations against what you are doing, and
B) Ask if it is really necessary that you leave, as it is public property.