Virginia people, question

[FarmerChick]

On my metal detecting for the states, it says Virginia State Parks you can detect with a permit.
going next summer to a state park in Cape Charles on the beach.

Then I read a review of the campground on the net checking into it, and someone posted no metal detecting allowed.

huh?

I will probably call the state park later....but wondering, is anyone detecting in the viriginia state parks with a permit like my list of states says is allowed?

thanks

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

reply

..... I ask what the legal law is when pertaining to an activity I wish to conduct. I don't want trouble, who does? So it is better for me personally to know the real laws...... It is my choice to find out the legal law.....

Sure. And no one here is advocating to "not know" or "not find out" what the laws/rules are (as I understand this thread). The issue here (the way I understand it) is whether or not asking "can I" is the way to do it.

Why not look it up yourself? Why can't that be the way to "know the real laws"? How can you be "in trouble" if you've looked it up, and found no specific prohibition? Why risk someone's arbitray capricious "no", as if you'd just asked their personal whim, based on their moods, their whimsical interpretations (to fit your "pressing question"), etc...?

When this topic has come up before, some people have thought the best way to combine the best of both worlds (to ask a live person, yet not have it sound as if you're asking "permission"), is to phrase it in this way:

"Is there any rules that prohibit the use of metal detectors?".

Notice how different this is from saying "Is it ok I metal detect?" (which is simply asking permission, as if that was needed. And not asking if there's any actual rules).

By asking if there's any rules prohibiting detecting, you might *think* this puts the burden of proof on the desk-bound clerk, to CITE and PRODUCE such a rule, if one existed.

As much as that seems clear-cut, and allows you ask a live clerk, instead of looking it up yourself, is that it too can back-fire. Those that have tried such a tactic have gotten odd responses. Things like this:

a) "we would prefer you didn't" (as if you'd just asked their personal opinion or permission).

b) "yes but you can't dig" (even though you NEVER mentioned digging).

c) "No because of cultural heritage rules" [or alteration, or defacement, or sandcrab harrasment laws, or ....... fill-in-the-blank]. And if you object and say that you won't leave any trace of your presence, or bother the sandcrabs, you will simply open yourself up to a debate that you will loose.

I mean, think of it farmer-chick: The mere fact that ANYONE thinks they need to go ask someone "can I do such & such?" merely presumes that something is inherently wrong, or damaging, or evil, with their chosen activity, to begin with. Lest why would you be "asking", if it were innocuous and harmless? This is not subconsciously lost on the person you are asking, so they will tend to give the "safe" answer (when in fact the thought, prior to that, might never have crossed their mind!).

You can satisfy everything you've said, by looking it up yourself. In this day and age of the internet, most every state, county, and a lot of cities now have their codes, charters, laws, rules, etc.... on-line. If you go to a park's and rec. dept. website, you can often find the rules. You know, like "no dogs allowed", "park closes at sunset", "no alcahol", etc ... blah blah. If you see nothing there saying "no metal detecting", then presto, there's your answer.

 

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[FarmerChick]

oh no not hijacked. it is good to see the views out there from other detectorists.

kinda lets you know how your hobby is progressing and how people treat the hobby pertaining to laws and such.

I find it all very interesting.



No answer today about crossing their state park beach. I hope tomorrow I hear something. wait and see.

 

[FarmerChick]

Tom when you saw the beginning of the thread, the answer from the state park was NO metal detectors were allowed in Kipok. state park.

I then asked further. I called a Dept. of Resources and they said water detecting was allowed.

Then I thought, hmm...am I allowed to enter the water on the state park beach. I ask this to them because when someone says NO METAL detectors are allowed in the park, it could be they don't allow them period. Like on an airplane, NO GUNS allowed. Well, that means NO GUNS. so the NO metal detectors could mean that so I thought I would ask further.

I looked everything up and when I saw a dead end, I pursued it further. So I did the right thing in asking because it could get me detecting exactly where I want, the state park, when the original email from them said NO METAL DETECTORS IN THE STATE PARK.


I understand what you are saying but I don't think it follows my line of inquiry. I started with NO METAL DECTECTING ALLOWED. and pursued it further for answers to what the heck I can do

it is all cool tho. it is neat to see how others see an issue. no one will ever see it from the exact same view all the time. won't happen.

 

[lookindown]

I sure don't see myself as afraid if I ask what the legal law is when pertaining to an activity I wish to conduct. I don't want trouble, who does? So it is better for me personally to know the real laws.

It is my choice to find out the legal law. others might not want to, but for me, if I know a state park DOES have rules about detecting, AND we all know 'they do', and you pretend you are not knowing, don't check and decide to detect and find you are in the wrong....what does that say for character? Only because we know lip service will get us off usually. No real charges most times etc.

So if that is the case, is it still right to do whatever you want even if you are a detector who is somewhat knowledge and just decides to pretend they don't know ANY laws exist. Doesn't float in my boat really. I would rather know my situation. others can wing it if they want. As everyone stated, do what ya want cause we all will anyway

I wasnt saying you were afraid FarmerChick, I was just saying that if there is no written rule against something that I wouldnt ask. In your case you were told "no" and your only hope is to ask questions to try to get around it, I would do the same thing. Sorry to hijack your thread. I would never hunt a place where there was a written rule saying no detectors. I wasnt saying that anyone on T-Net was afraid just saying that I wasnt. Keep us posted on your progress and good luck.

 

[FarmerChick]

all cool. I am trying to get around red tape. never fun

 

[OBN]

I've researched Laws and re/researched locations...And found the best way to hunt the Virigina/Maryland Chesapeake Bay..is by..........A Pirate Ship..



I think everything will turn out fine for you.......Enjoy your Family Vacation.......

 

[FarmerChick]

OBN, I wanna signup to board!!!

Thanks. whole thing is just a family vacation and what I want is just access to the water on the state park beach because I don't really want to travel to detect. hubby fishing, kid to swim/play and me wandering the water. All set up wtih our little umbrella, chairs and all that close to our campsite.

that is why I am making sure I can do things in this park. I am there for 9 days and want to know my limits if any, then I want to relax and play

 

[Digging Fool]

I read everybody's posts here, and replies were varied and interesting(probably because everybody's experiences have been varied and interesting). I have been digging for 33 years, and would suggest that each person can only rely on their own experiences and each one of those will usually be different. Therefore, it is difficult for anyone to draw a 'consensus" with so many varied responses. So my suggestion would be to either go and take a chance, ask and get a "no"(which is usually likely to happen), or jump through the political "hoops" that are usually put in front of you if you do get some sort of "yes, but..." answer. Most of the time, the restrictions that they place on you in the event that you do get a political "yes" take all the fun out of the experience. Yes, you can detect, but you cannot dig any holes, Yes, you can dig but we have to have all of what you find, Yes, you can dig but it has to be during the time before or after our beaches are open for recreation, and THEN you have to have a licensed lifeguard beside you in case you have a problem(I have heard this one, too!!!!). So there is no concrete simple answer to the op's question.

 

[Crispin]

I just had a good idea for you. Wear some Navy Camo gear and tell anybody who asks that you are on a top secret government mission to find and disarm left over bombs from WWII. If they ask to see your papers, tell them they do not have the proper authorization and clearance.