Walt Gasslers Notes on Dutchman Legend

[RWGassler]

Joe,
For some reason you have elected to drag my name into two of your latest posts and even though my first reaction is to make a response I won't. It is probably worth reposting my last post since I am not going to get into an argument with you regarding what someone thinks are the most accurate facts. I am comfortable knowing what the facts are regarding my fathers situation just as you probably are regarding Tom and Bob.

To All Posters,
This situation is getting out of hand and not productive for the scope of this forum. I knew when I made my last post is was probably not a wise decision and that has proven to be correct. It is not in any ones interest for me to continue with posts that might reflect a difference of opinion with those who are held in such high esteem. Just to put the record straight, the comments that were made with respect to my father does not diminish the basic knowledge these individuals have about the Superstitions and LDM.
You all need to get back to what this forum is suppose to be about and that is sharing information about treasure hunting in this case the LDM.
Good Hunting

RWGassler

 

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[SGnAZ]

I have 2 questions.
Does anybody have any thoughts as to who the men were that were milling around on the trail above MR. Gasslers body?
Any idea who the fake Roland was or is?
I'm just curious as all get out on this.
Thanks Steve

 

[Azquester]

Two points, I would just like to know why when I say some small thing about the actual story and facts I get accused of being a fool and heaping BS all over the place by certain parties but when the originator of this thread gives elaborate in depth details yet further explaining the true story it's OK? I think the originator is correct the person called "Gorilla" that is not named is the one bringing this thread down with heaps of BS not I.

And I think we have a few posers on here someone closely associated that claims to be someone else, figure that one out yourself. Both are tied at the mouth.

The story is history but yet we can't talk about factual history for fear we may be hurting one or two of the people that inserted themselves in that story by association while embellishing on it for later notoriety or profit?

Or we might be pandering to one of the players that has the kahuna's to post on here yet the other two tally hoed off here when questioned? If there is only one player from that time frame on here whom else should we ask?

The Gorilla?

I think the Gorilla in the room has just been unmasked and it's none other than the lone player!


Please, take this thread down it's been compromised!

Old, Trap that Gorilla and tame it.!

Okay, lets bring this back into perspective.

The players in this story are being discussed because they put themselves into the story. Mr. Kollenborn has written several articles over time relating the story of Mr. Gassler and his personal role in the story. By his own hand his story has changed three times Significantly. By several other written and televised accounts where he is directly quoted, its has also changed. That's fair game for discussion, fact finding and questioning.

Mr. Corbin himself has not taken a public stance. His wife however did include a narrative of the events in her writings and he has been included as an active associate of Mr. Kollenborn in the chain of events. I give him some leeway to remain private. We didn't make up a story and drag him into it, Mr. Kollenborn did.

Mr. Roberts and Mr. Davis have both actively participated in this topic. Mr. Roberts alludes to personal knowledge of the events and provides information that he is one of few who has had access to Mr. Gassler's personal notes. The notes are listed as reference documents in several works on the topic and are listed as being sourced from the private collection of Mr. Davis. Considering what Roland Gassler has provided us, and the story related by Mr. Kollenborn, its a fair question to ask how that came to be. How did those notes get from BC to TK to fake Roland to Greg Davis? When asked they chose to leave the discussion. Each reader will have to make up their own mind on how that sets with them.

I have given Mr. Kollenborn every benefit of the doubt and an easy out in all this. I've said from the beginning I believed there was writer's liberty and some embellishment involved. Its obvious three different versions of the story can not all be 100% accurate. If this was any other author or television show you guys would be on the discrepancies like sharks and you know that's true.

I am a researcher by trade. You have to turn over a lot of rocks to find the nuggets of truth. Just so happens these rocks are in several personal sandboxes. We can either question the discrepancies or take the spoon fed versions as they are offered up. If the general consensus is finding truth is too painful in this instance then I will delete the thread and we can go on to rehashing other topics. But; there will always be the 300 pound gorilla in the room so far as this topic is concerned.

 

[sdcfia]

Well thought out post Deducer. I agree on most all of your points. A few points of disagreement, but over all, well said.

Didn't know my anonymity was an issue. I thought I babbled too much as to background experiences and why I bring them to the table when I come in from left field on some subjects.

Over the time I been here I've told you all where I live, my work and hobbies, my marital status, my retired husband's work and history. Told you about my daughter and grand daughter. My community affiliations, my deceased brothers and their families, my religious and fraternal affiliations and political leanings. Of my travels and why I went. I don't think I've been all that secret <g> but I could be wrong.

Don't think I've told you about my prior work, didn't think it was all that relevant. But; for what its worth and in the interest of full disclosure, I was the VP and Operations Manager of the Mid Atlantic region of a Fortune 500 insurance and financial corporation with a 42 million dollar annual budget employing over 300 people and riding herd over more than 2000 agents. I had direct reports of upwards of 40 employees, 22 of those being attorneys and 5 CPAs. Retiring in 2004 after 33 years employment. In retrospect, retiring then was the best decision I ever made. Took up my current independent company in 2008 devoted to the hands on aspects of my prior work that I enjoyed the most - the research. Recognized from the bench as an expert witness in several jurisdictions. That, and a buck 2.50 might get me a cup of coffee.

I enjoy panning for gold and live in striking distance of the gold belt of Virginia and North Carolina. Occasionally order pay dirt from reputable dealers. I've got a couple ounces stashed away and its mighty pretty. Never done any hard rock mining and never plan to. Never plan to hunt the LDM on site. No thanks, the days that would have been possible are long gone. The extent of my hunt is right here in this format. No books, no movies, no plans for any. Not my thing.

I'm probably the most boring person you could want to know. What ever you want to know, just ask. I can't think of any skeletons lurking about that would interest anyone. But; ya never know.

As to all things LDM I have found very little that folks are willing to share beyond what is already in print. Totally understandable.

Early on I came to the realization that personal investigation and gathering of material would be required to be able to speak and think about this "hobby" with any degree of intelligence. Most folks only share what they want you to have or believe. Even less so with perfect strangers. Don't think there is much room for real enlightenment using that method. I did find the subject interesting and thought there were research methods that "might" bear fruit if followed. At least in sorting out fact from fiction. And; they have. I often follow left field leads from obscure angles. Others better than I have, most often, already covered the most obvious paths.

Doesn't mean I have any vast collection of data. I don't. Its a bit eclectic. In many instances, incomplete, but; I dare say enviable, in some instances. But; what I do have I can rely on with a high degree of confidence. Certainly enough to have its own built in BS detector.

And; I dare say, that's more than most folks here ever reveal about themselves.

Doesn't matter who you are. No pedigree is required. No explanations, apologies or dues are necessary. All that matters on a public forum such as this is the content of your posts. By the way, there are also no sacred cows here or anywhere else.

 

[Tnmountains]

To All Posters,
This situation is getting out of hand and not productive for the scope of this forum. I knew when I made my last post is was probably not a wise decision and that has proven to be correct. It is not in any ones interest for me to continue with posts that might reflect a difference of opinion with those who are held in such high esteem. Just to put the record straight, the comments that were made with respect to my father does not diminish the basic knowledge these individuals have about the Superstitions and LDM.
You all need to get back to what this forum is suppose to be about and that is sharing information about treasure hunting in this case the LDM.
Good Hunting
RWGassler

You sir are correct on this forum being off topic. This is one of the most famous forums here for whole topics being destroyed over arguing and nit picking by a certain cast of members who try and make it about themselves !

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe,
For some reason you have elected to drag my name into two of your latest posts and even though my first reaction is to make a response I won't. It is probably worth reposting my last post since I am not going to get into an argument with you regarding what someone thinks are the most accurate facts. I am comfortable knowing what the facts are regarding my fathers situation just as you probably are regarding Tom and Bob.

To All Posters,
This situation is getting out of hand and not productive for the scope of this forum. I knew when I made my last post is was probably not a wise decision and that has proven to be correct. It is not in any ones interest for me to continue with posts that might reflect a difference of opinion with those who are held in such high esteem. Just to put the record straight, the comments that were made with respect to my father does not diminish the basic knowledge these individuals have about the Superstitions and LDM.
You all need to get back to what this forum is suppose to be about and that is sharing information about treasure hunting in this case the LDM.
Good Hunting

RWGassler

Roland,

This topic is about your father and his notes/manuscript. Most of us have just been trying to go where the conversation leads. Sometimes, that tends to stray a bit from the original concept as the conversations develop. Sort of like a normal conversation does.

As I look back through the preceding posts, I find many posters "dragging" your name into their posts. You, yourself, have not been bashful about joining the discussion. It would seem that you have now dragged me into some kind of controversy with the above post. I would suggest you look back through this topic to see just how many others have used your name in their posts. Why did you choose to castigate me?

I have stated, quite boldly, that I believe you are who you claim to be. Others may still doubt that. Let's agree to go after Mike for awhile. After all, I believe, he may have used your name many more times than I have.

Sorry for trying to inject a little humor into this situation, hoping it will help to diffuse things a little. On the other hand, I'm quite serious about your going back and counting/comparing the number of times others have used your name compared to me. I think I will turn out to be a piker in that respect.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[deducer]

I have 2 questions.
Does anybody have any thoughts as to who the men were that were milling around on the trail above MR. Gasslers body?
Any idea who the fake Roland was or is?
I'm just curious as all get out on this.
Thanks Steve

Nobody really knows as the Sheriff Deputies didn't question them; Crazy Jake's partners were the only other people camped out on that Mesa at the time, so it would be logical to start with them. Another tidbit connecting the partners to Walt is that they were both packed in by the same man, Jerry Sherwood. Don Shade spoke of another man that he wouldn't name, who he was suspicious and afraid of. Others have asserted that his name was Mitch.

Walt Gassler was, IIRC, influenced by Tex Barkley's beliefs and theories which is why he ended up at Peter's Mesa, near Peter's Dome (or what he called Lost Ridge).

 

[Garry]

First off I want to thank Mike McChesney for sharing a copy of the Gassler Unsolved Mysteries video. I really enjoyed it and it reminded me lot of the flood of treasure reality shows we see today but this one had Clay Worst, Bob Corbin, Tom Kollenborn and Don Shade in younger bodies.

There are several written accounts of the fake Roland Gassler story including the one in the video (1989). I’m sure the story line as told by the producers was derived from Bob and Tom but the final version was their creation.

I wanted to share another early version in Helen Corbin’s first Dutchman book. This is the earliest written account that I have been able to find so far. Helen had probably been working on the book for a year or two at least and her version would have either preceded or have been contemporary with the video. I like Helen’s story because it if a firsthand account from Bob and Tom and it is before the growth of the story that has taken place over the last 25 years.

The Curse of the Dutchman’s Gold by Helen Corbin — Copyright 1990 — Page 228-230

“On Thursday of that week Tom Kollenborn called Bob Corbin’s office to tell the attorney general that Walter Gassler’s body had just been found on the trail above Charleybois Springs. There was to be a coroner’s inquest but it looked as though he had died of a heart attack. Of course, both men were shocked and felt remorse that they hadn’t been able to accompany the old man on what was to be his last journey.

That weekend a man appeared at Tom Kollenborn’s home. He introduced himself as Walter Gassler’s son. Tom invited the man in and after exchanging pleasantries the man brought out some rich gold ore. He said it was in his father’s backpack when he was found on the trail. Tom was shocked. But, maintaining his usual dour facade, he examined the ore and later said it looked exactly like the gold that came from under the Dutchman’s bed. The man listened patiently. After a bit he said, “I understand that my father gave his notes to Bob Corbin, is that true?” Tom nodded, saying little, in true cowboy fashion. It was apparent the man wanted those notes back. Tom suggested he call the attorney general at his office in the state capital, and the matter was left right there.

A week later Tom called Bob to see if he had heard from Gassler’s son. Bob said no, but he would gladly give the notes up to the family; he felt that was only fair.

Again fate seems to work in strange ways.

Tom Kollenborn is invited regularly to show a slide presentation of the Superstitions during which he tells tales of the Dutchman’s mine, exotic tales of the 68 murders and wonderful stories of the characters who live and some who have died in those canyons. The slide show is so well accepted that it has traveled to Europe and throughout the U. S. This particular show was down in Florence, Arizona, the county seat of Pinal County, home of the old Silver King. Tom Weedin and the place where the swamper was last seen. Right after the show, Tom was approached by a man who introduced himself as Walter Gassler’s son. The fact that Tom is stoic saved him from gaping. The man who stood in front of him was well dressed and polite but bore absolutely no resemblance to the person who had come to his home with the ore. The man proceeded to make the same request about the diary and was given the same answer as Tom had given to the first man. Only this time, Tom went right to a phone to call Bob Corbin.

Two days later Bob received a call from a man claiming to be Walter Gassler’s son. Bob said he was busy and would return the call shortly, then asked for a home number. That telephone number was the same one Walter Gassler had given him. This time it appeared, he had the right son. Bob Corbin was also impressed with the fact that the man said, “I don’t want to take the notes away from you; my father wanted you to have them. But if you could Xerox them and send them to me for our family mementoes, I’d appreciate it.” Of course the attorney general complied.

The pair met for lunch. During the course of the meal, the son was politely questioned as to his father’s effects which were brought into town by the sheriff’s office. Bob said, “Ron, did you find your dad’s backpack?”

Ron looked puzzled and answered rather hesitantly, “Why no. It was listed on the paper which recorded his effects but when I picked them up it wasn’t there.”

Bob Corbin later said he believed the man was sincere.

Comments:

I don’t know whether Roland ever went by “Ron” but I suspect this was simply an error on Bob’s part. [Nothing Sinister]

In Helen’s book, The Bible on the LDM, published in 2002 she follows the same story line.

In both accounts the fake Roland Gassler never received any notes, etc. from Tom.

Later stories would begin to follow the Unsolved Mysteries version of the ‘notes”.

It looks like the old adage about stories having two sides was never truer than in this thread.

Garry

 

[azdave35]

First off I want to thank Mike McChesney for sharing a copy of the Gassler Unsolved Mysteries video. I really enjoyed it and it reminded me lot of the flood of treasure reality shows we see today but this one had Clay Worst, Bob Corbin, Tom Kollenborn and Don Shade in younger bodies.

There are several written accounts of the fake Roland Gassler story including the one in the video (1989). I’m sure the story line as told by the producers was derived from Bob and Tom but the final version was their creation.

I wanted to share another early version in Helen Corbin’s first Dutchman book. This is the earliest written account that I have been able to find so far. Helen had probably been working on the book for a year or two at least and her version would have either preceded or have been contemporary with the video. I like Helen’s story because it if a firsthand account from Bob and Tom and it is before the growth of the story that has taken place over the last 25 years.

The Curse of the Dutchman’s Gold by Helen Corbin — Copyright 1990 — Page 228-230

“On Thursday of that week Tom Kollenborn called Bob Corbin’s office to tell the attorney general that Walter Gassler’s body had just been found on the trail above Charleybois Springs. There was to be a coroner’s inquest but it looked as though he had died of a heart attack. Of course, both men were shocked and felt remorse that they hadn’t been able to accompany the old man on what was to be his last journey.

That weekend a man appeared at Tom Kollenborn’s home. He introduced himself as Walter Gassler’s son. Tom invited the man in and after exchanging pleasantries the man brought out some rich gold ore. He said it was in his father’s backpack when he was found on the trail. Tom was shocked. But, maintaining his usual dour facade, he examined the ore and later said it looked exactly like the gold that came from under the Dutchman’s bed. The man listened patiently. After a bit he said, “I understand that my father gave his notes to Bob Corbin, is that true?” Tom nodded, saying little, in true cowboy fashion. It was apparent the man wanted those notes back. Tom suggested he call the attorney general at his office in the state capital, and the matter was left right there.

A week later Tom called Bob to see if he had heard from Gassler’s son. Bob said no, but he would gladly give the notes up to the family; he felt that was only fair.

Again fate seems to work in strange ways.

Tom Kollenborn is invited regularly to show a slide presentation of the Superstitions during which he tells tales of the Dutchman’s mine, exotic tales of the 68 murders and wonderful stories of the characters who live and some who have died in those canyons. The slide show is so well accepted that it has traveled to Europe and throughout the U. S. This particular show was down in Florence, Arizona, the county seat of Pinal County, home of the old Silver King. Tom Weedin and the place where the swamper was last seen. Right after the show, Tom was approached by a man who introduced himself as Walter Gassler’s son. The fact that Tom is stoic saved him from gaping. The man who stood in front of him was well dressed and polite but bore absolutely no resemblance to the person who had come to his home with the ore. The man proceeded to make the same request about the diary and was given the same answer as Tom had given to the first man. Only this time, Tom went right to a phone to call Bob Corbin.

Two days later Bob received a call from a man claiming to be Walter Gassler’s son. Bob said he was busy and would return the call shortly, then asked for a home number. That telephone number was the same one Walter Gassler had given him. This time it appeared, he had the right son. Bob Corbin was also impressed with the fact that the man said, “I don’t want to take the notes away from you; my father wanted you to have them. But if you could Xerox them and send them to me for our family mementoes, I’d appreciate it.” Of course the attorney general complied.

The pair met for lunch. During the course of the meal, the son was politely questioned as to his father’s effects which were brought into town by the sheriff’s office. Bob said, “Ron, did you find your dad’s backpack?”

Ron looked puzzled and answered rather hesitantly, “Why no. It was listed on the paper which recorded his effects but when I picked them up it wasn’t there.”

Bob Corbin later said he believed the man was sincere.

Comments:

I don’t know whether Roland ever went by “Ron” but I suspect this was simply an error on Bob’s part. [Nothing Sinister]

In Helen’s book, The Bible on the LDM, published in 2002 she follows the same story line.

In both accounts the fake Roland Gassler never received any notes, etc. from Tom.

Later stories would begin to follow the Unsolved Mysteries version of the ‘notes”.

It looks like the old adage about stories having two sides was never truer than in this thread.

Garry

garry...i used to have a freind named roland and he liked to be called ron...i think its a pretty common deal

 

[Oroblanco]

Garry posted a good post on here I've never heard that account with a guy named Ron from BC. I wonder if Mr Gassler could tell us whether or not this true?

Really? You did not see it when I posted the identical extract from Helen Corbin's book on Nov 21st?
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...lers-notes-dutchman-legend-6.html#post4757331

Of course I got a very different reaction and replies, but agree that it is a good account, and it would be great to hear (read) Roland's side from his viewpoint. There are two sides to every story.

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

It would appear, sadly, that we will not be getting Matthew's answer as to whether Walt Gassler tried to get him to go into the mountains with him on that fateful trip. Perhaps he will contact us privately, but I don't hold out much hope of that.

Personally, I hate to see him go, as he was a veritable fount of information on LDM, Apache and local Arizona history. I look forward to his being able to come back, eventually.

Take care,

Joe

Treasure-Hunter,

I posted this back on Nov. 20th.

I look forward to seeing Matthew Roberts taken off the banned list. I believe many others feel the same way. If so, perhaps they will also speak up.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

You sir are correct on this forum being off topic. This is one of the most famous forums here for whole topics being destroyed over arguing and nit picking by a certain cast of members who try and make it about themselves !

Tn.,

I think the "Forrest Fenn" topic gave us a run for the money......So to speak.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Garry]

Really? I had not noticed!

Now that episode of Unsolved Mysteries ran years ago, not sure exactly what year (date?) but at any rate it is not the only source we can turn to that records these events, surrounding Walt Gassler, his notes, the gold ore and whether he found the LDM or not.

Helen Corbin expanded on this Unsolved Mysteries account of Walt Gassler, the gold ore and whether he found the mine.

from The Curse of the Dutchman's Gold, Helen Corbin, published 1990, pp 226-230

Damn Oro, I think I was lost and hadn't gotten to the party when you posted that. Sorry about that! If I had wanted to repost it and knew it was there it would have save me a lot of typing!!!!!

Garry

 

[Oroblanco]

Damn Oro, I think I was lost and hadn't gotten to the party when you posted that. Sorry about that! If I had wanted to repost it and knew it was there it would have save me a lot of typing!!!!!

Garry

No worries Garry, or to Bill for that matter, just was surprised that Bill had missed it as I thought he was following this thread. Besides, it is one of the few written (published) sources on this incident, so re-posting it is probably a good thing.

Ditto to the words of Cactusjumper about Matthew, hope his ban will soon be lifted as he does have a lot of knowledge and could contribute a lot.

Nobodie - no one is stopping you from posting information from your copy of Walt Gassler's notes, please do post, it won't help matters to STOP posting info.

 

[cw0909]

I think it was Oroblanco, who asked about how T. Kollenborn could have gotten
hold of Walter Gasslers notes. I ran across this blog post of T. Kollenborn, from
March 9, 2015, from the way it reads T. Kollenborn is talking about his self going
out to talk to Walter Gassler, May 2 at Charlebois Spring b4 Walter hiked on to his
camp. So if T. Kollenborn, had the notes i guess he could have gotten them then.
I would copy paste, not sure about the copyright and fair use, its near end of the pg
Tom Kollenborn Chronicles: A Treasure Tree

thanks Nobodie, wonder if they still sell copies

 

[Azquester]

Here's what TK wrote in his "Chronicals". Tom says he road into the mountains and met with Walter about the same time he died. That's another story altogether. That places him in the area when he passed on and puts him in a precarious spot. Was he the man spotted nearby?

I believe Walt was eighty-two years old when he had his wife drive him out to First Water Trail. He hiked into Charlebois Spring some eight miles away on May 1, 1984. I rode into Charlebois and talked to Walt on May 2, before he started his final hike to his camp. Walt died on the trail just above Charlebois Spring.

 

[nobodie]

can0909,
I haven't seen a copy on the selves for years. They might have some in storage.

 

[cw0909]

can0909,
I haven't seen a copy on the selves for years. They might have some in storage.

thanks maybe ill give em call and check it out, does your copy have a map/s
and did Walt ever express his hunt was prob just chasing a dream, or did he
really think he was going to find the mine

 

[RWGassler]

cw0909,
Bill,
I have been accused of not being respectful of Tom K. in some of my previous posts but can no one see that the original story Tom told is inconsistent with what he tells today. Originally he could not get off work on such short notice so he couldn't make the trip with Walter Gassler now in 2015 in one of his chronicles he states he went to see him on the trail. How odd is that!! Remember, I was also originally told by Tom and Bob that they could not make it since it was such short notice.
With respect to getting notes when he went out to meet him it is unlikely my father would have given him anything if this actually happened which I doubt.
RWGassler

 

[cw0909]

Here's what TK wrote in his "Chronicals". Tom says he road into the mountains and met with Walter about the same time he died. That's another story altogether. That places him in the area when he passed on and puts him in a precarious spot. Was he the man spotted nearby?

thanks for posting the snipped article, how long would it take to horseback that trail
2-3 hours?, TK prob wasnt ready for camping and prob rode back out same day.
who was the guy that said he was afraid of whoever he saw? sorry about the bad
memory on the names. from reading around about TK, he dosent seem like someone
you would fear ya know
JMO, i think that Walter Gassler died from a heart attack, now did someone come across
him and robbed him of some of his stuff, that prob could happen, as i saw something
like that after a car crash, and the woman wasnt dead just unconscious