wanted to bring everyones attention to this

[Monolyth]

Hello,

As probably many of you do when not detecting or involved in other activities I like to read or get involved in forum posts for entertainment, learn something new or check out others finds. I post on this forum and others as well. This was of particular interest to me posted on another forum, I think it should be of interest to you to as it deals with what could be the future of this hobby we share.

I will post the content made by original poster and a link to it if you would like to see the discussion that followed:
thread link; http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=34857

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So, i have been posting adds of craigslist to get permission to detect peoples property. i have gotten several hits, but today i got an email that im not quite sure how to take. anyways. what are your thoughts. i almost feel like i have been scolded.

Here is the craigslist add

I am lookin for new spots to use my metal detector. I prefer yards or lots, and will remove all trash I uncover. I am mainly interested in older coins and tokens. Almost every yard or grass strip holds coins and relics that are just waiting to be found. I don't leave holes and will leave all sites in as found or better condition. So if you have a lot or yard older than the 1950's and don't mind, I would love the privilege to metal detect your place. This is purely my hobby. I will answer all emails. I prefer the Bellingham/Everson area but will travel if my schedule permits. Thanks for lookin!


Here is the email i got today

Greetings,

We recently noticed your advertisement on Craigslist. Though we have not heard from you directly, as the state agency tasked with protecting archaeological sites and resources for the inspiration and enrichment of the citizens of Washington, we felt it would be productive to contact you directly.


It is our understanding that you are interested in metal detecting lots or yards over 50 years old to find coins, tokens, or relics. Items over 50 years old, produced or modified by humans, below the surface of the ground and submerged under water, are archaeological objects. Archaeological objects, and archaeological sites and resources, are protected resources under state statutes.

In addition, per RCW 27.53.060, a permit is required for any person to knowingly and willfully remove, alter, dig into, excavate or remove an archaeological object or site in the state of Washington.

This statute applies to both public and private lands. Even with landowner permission, a permit from DAHP is required. The permit processes requires a research design, a plan for care and cleaning of the recovered objects, the commitment to write a professional, technical report, and appropriate curation of the artifacts and data recovered. The permit process also requires DAHP to afford interested parties an opportunity to comment on the proposed excavation project, prior to its commencement. These parties typically include affected Indian Tribes, local government, historical societies, landowners, and archaeological peers. Permit application forms are available on our website at http://www.dahp.wa.gov/pages/Archaeology/Permitting.htm.

Failure to obtain such a permit, or failure to comply with any permit conditions, can result in civil penalties in an amount up to $5000 per violation, restoration costs and investigative costs. Furthermore, if burials, cairns, or glyptic records are involved, RCW 27.44 allows the affected Indian Tribe to file claims for damages and emotional distress.

Excavation permits are granted to professional archaeologists who meet the requirements of that definition under RCW 27.53.030(8). While we understand metal detecting is your hobby, much damage has been done to the state’s archaeological resources by hobbyists.

There are legal ways to experience the excitement of discovery of our historic past. The Forest Service operates a program entitled “Passport in Time.” This program affords volunteers the opportunity to participate in real archaeological excavations with professional archaeologists. This includes historic period sites as well as prehistoric. The website link is: http://www.passportintime.com/.

There are some Washington State Parks that are open to metal detecting. Please see the following link for more information: http://www.parks.wa.gov/activities/

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions about the content of this letter. You can find additional information about archaeology in Washington, as well as the laws regarding archaeological excavations on our website at www.dahp.wa.gov.

Sincerely,



Stephenie Kramer
Assistant State Archaeologist
(360) 586-3083
Stephenie.kramer@dahp.wa.gov
__________________

 

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[Shortstack]

In my never humble opinion, no body in their right mind would answer a Craigslist (or any OTHER on line "list") add from someone asking to metal detect private property. That's no different than walking down the street and telling everyother stranger you meet to "come on over to my house and play in my yard." The person who would post such a request is just too lazy to get out and knock on doors to ask in person. Seems a little bit LAME to me.

As far as the Archie's email.........that person should DELETE it and go about their business. But, if that person was the only one STUPlD enough to put his or her name out there associated with metal detecting in front of the archie's eyes, it would be real easy for the archie to harass them. I would have thought that by now EVERYONE living in Washington state would know how sillya$$ed they are and take appropriate measures............first of which would be to NOT put your name out into the "public" arena. Too many people are getting too damned dependent on the internet.

 

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[bigscoop]

In simple explaination,

1) if said property is "displayed" to be an "archeological site" or a possibe "archeological site of interest" it then becomes very possible that you won't even be able to step foot on it without their permission, even if it's in your own back yard. This is nothing new and it has happened many times in the past. However, it takes more then a few old coins to prove to the courts that an archeolgical condition exist (thought the court battle to challenge the process will probably cost you more then the face value of the land in question). On the other hand, "let the word get out" that you've turn up a few ancient artifacts and you'll see first hand just how swiftly and aggreesively the system works.

2) within the law, it is also your legal obligation to disclose locations containing potential archeological items as failure to do so could lead to prosecution, and this become most likely if it can be proven that you have removed anything from the location in question, and most certain if it can be proven that you have sold that item. Again, nothing new, these laws have been around for a long time.

The problems that have developed through all of this are:

A) The American archeological system itself creates a "keep your mouth shut" condition that fails to serve either interest. In the event of an archeological discovery, hobbiest, amatures, and landowners should be compensated for their time and effort just as archeologist are likewise compensated for their time and efforts. If you want an effective system then create a system that supports all interest instead of a system that only serves and supports the interest of the dictating hier-"archy".

B) Nobody is policing the current system as there are more archeologic items skimmed from the system by the archeological community then have ever been skimmed by all the metal detectorist ever to hunt the land. No item that is part of an archeological site/discovery should ever be allowed to fall into private hands, even if those hands are hands within the archeological community itself. This should be consider as the most unscrupulous archeological crime of all. It is, in fact, stealing from the very hands that support the system.

C) There are no clearcut guidlines on what constitutes "archeological item" or "potential archeological item" so the archeological community is only slightly restricted in applying an otherwise very broad spectum of claims. Even within the archeological community itself the argument looms as to what is, and what isn't, an archeological discovery of significance.

The good news:
Believe it or not, there are many archeologist out there who also support these same type of changes within the current system.

Conclusion:
It is an absurd, counter productive measure, and also a direct abuse of the system and human rights to restrict discovery to only a select few. Discovery is what founded the very roots of this nation, and that man (Columbus) was nothing more then a simple goods trader who was inspired by a theory that would lead him to future wealth. Discovery and the pursuit of fortune from that discovery should be the legal right of everyone, regardless of their background or education. Once that discovery has been made then allow the archeological community control over the continued excavation and "study" of that discovery.

From Wesbster's,
archeology; "the scientific study of ancient times"
Nowhere in the above definition do I see the word "discovery", just the word "study". Also, in this definition I see the word, "ancient".

From Webster's,
ancient; very old.

From Webster's'
study; the process of applying the mind to acquire knowledge.

But I could go on and on, wasn't intending to rant, but this is one subject that really heats my briches!

 

[grumpyolman]

I live and MD in Washington State. They did find the "Kennewick Man" a few years ago and that caused hell. I have also worked with and talked with State Parks. I hunt any public area I want and have a registration, NOT PERMIT, to hunt in the State Parks. Not all of em as some are already National Historic Sites.
I totally discount the archelologists and their wrath. It's never been a problem not will I allow it to be. There are many of us who have raised so much hell with the archeologists, via our local state senators and representatives, that although it's gotten the ire of many popping, it's meaningless.
We're not stupid. We won't do hunting on State Property unless its within limits established by the State, but anywhere else is all bets are off. Now! If we come on to something that looks like it might be an archelogical discovery, we stop and tell the State. I have no use to offend and desecrate the Native American culture by digging in their sacred burial or religious sites. However, there are lots of those areas here and you don't know you are doing wrong until you unearth something.