What About The Garrett Infinium For gold Prospecting?

[Hard Prospector]

I've been using my Whites TDI for some time now and have been very pleased with its performance but have always wondered about the Garrett PI detector. Any input, opinions and experience with the Infinium would be appreciated. Thanks....Rob

 

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[Terry Soloman]

Hi Terry,

...I welcome the opportunity to contrast my opinion with yours. People are free to judge for themselves.

Steve Herschbach

See, I knew we could agree on something.

 

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[Reg]

Terry,

You are certainly entitled to your opinion but it would be best if you weren't so biased and lacking knowledge on the subject of PI's. It is sad that people will actually believe you.

First, the TDI is not a low powered unit. I can't say about the Infinium, but the Tesoro PI's are low powered similar to many of the PI kits available. Want a low powered PI with no ground balancing ability then build a kit. At least then you will have a better idea of how PI's work.

The fact that the Infinium and the Tesoro PI are waterproof makes them useful in many areas where hunting in water is required or desired. Nice clean beaches free of basalt and other minerals are ideal places to use such PI's. The Infinium because of the ground balancing ability will allow it to be used in areas containing basalt or has a clay base and anyone who has hunted in AZ knows basalt and clay are very common especially in gold producing areas.

If people want to know about the TDI or the Infinium then reading what Steve Herschbach or Jim Hemmingway has to say on the subject is the way to go. They are two well known individuals who have actually spent sufficient time with these two detectors and can speak intelligently on the subject.

The fact is, a non ground balancing PI that has a delay setting back far enough can be used poorly for gold hunting but the gold has to be as big or bigger than you can find with most cheap VLF's. Even the Garrett 250 you mentioned is competitive.

Terry to insult the TDI and Infinium clearly shows your bias but what is worse is it also shows your clear lack of knowledge of the detectors and of what either of these two detectors can do.

Second, no non ground balancing (GB) PI will compete with a PI that has ground balancing abilities in most gold producing areas and I speak of this with far more knowledge than you. In fact, at the time I started I tried the Tesoro PI and quickly rejected using it.

Instead, I spent a lot of years trying, studying and modifying PI's for gold hunting and realized that ground balancing was needed if the detector was going to be of any value for nugget hunting. In fact I started in 2000 with a non ground balancing PI and over the next couple of years of studying PI's, I added that feature plus the ability to use DD type coil. At that time only the older Eric Foster Goldscans and the Minelabs had ground balancing on their PI's.

Since the ML was getting too heavy for my father to use, I felt I needed to come up with something he could use while he was still able to hunt and at that time, no one was making such a PI. So, after studying extensively and with the help of the world renown Eric Foster, I was able to build a ground canceling PI that weighed a lot less.

So, my knowledge of PI's is from both use and extensive studying of how they work. As for my serious nugget hunting, well that dates back to 1987 and continues through today. I did hunt for gold going back to the early 70's but that is a different story. As for knowledge of the more common VLF's popular for gold hunting over the years, well you can read my field tests of them in Lost Treasure. I even field tested the SD 2200 for LT.

The Tesoro PI works well for what it is designed to do, and that is to hunt in salt water or maybe fresh water where basalt or other mineralization isn't there to affect it.

As for those of you looking for knowledge, I strongly recommend you try the different detectors discussed here in this thread. It won't take much testing to realize what is fact and what is opinion.

Reg

 

[Terry Soloman]

Terry,

You are certainly entitled to your opinion but it would be best if you weren't so biased and lacking knowledge on the subject of PI's. It is sad that people will actually believe you.

First, the TDI is not a low powered unit. I can't say about the Infinium, but the Tesoro PI's are low powered similar to many of the PI kits available. Want a low powered PI with no ground balancing ability then build a kit. At least then you will have a better idea of how PI's work.

The fact that the Infinium and the Tesoro PI are waterproof makes them useful in many areas where hunting in water is required or desired. Nice clean beaches free of basalt and other minerals are ideal places to use such PI's. The Infinium because of the ground balancing ability will allow it to be used in areas containing basalt or has a clay base and anyone who has hunted in AZ knows basalt and clay are very common especially in gold producing areas.

If people want to know about the TDI or the Infinium then reading what Steve Herschbach or Jim Hemmingway has to say on the subject is the way to go. They are two well known individuals who have actually spent sufficient time with these two detectors and can speak intelligently on the subject.

The fact is, a non ground balancing PI that has a delay setting back far enough can be used poorly for gold hunting but the gold has to be as big or bigger than you can find with most cheap VLF's. Even the Garrett 250 you mentioned is competitive.

Terry to insult the TDI and Infinium clearly shows your bias but what is worse is it also shows your clear lack of knowledge of the detectors and of what either of these two detectors can do.

Second, no non ground balancing (GB) PI will compete with a PI that has ground balancing abilities in most gold producing areas and I speak of this with far more knowledge than you. In fact, at the time I started I tried the Tesoro PI and quickly rejected using it.

Instead, I spent a lot of years trying, studying and modifying PI's for gold hunting and realized that ground balancing was needed if the detector was going to be of any value for nugget hunting. In fact I started in 2000 with a non ground balancing PI and over the next couple of years of studying PI's, I added that feature plus the ability to use DD type coil. At that time only the older Eric Foster Goldscans and the Minelabs had ground balancing on their PI's.

Since the ML was getting too heavy for my father to use, I felt I needed to come up with something he could use while he was still able to hunt and at that time, no one was making such a PI. So, after studying extensively and with the help of the world renown Eric Foster, I was able to build a ground canceling PI that weighed a lot less.

So, my knowledge of PI's is from both use and extensive studying of how they work. As for my serious nugget hunting, well that dates back to 1987 and continues through today. I did hunt for gold going back to the early 70's but that is a different story. As for knowledge of the more common VLF's popular for gold hunting over the years, well you can read my field tests of them in Lost Treasure. I even field tested the SD 2200 for LT.

The Tesoro PI works well for what it is designed to do, and that is to hunt in salt water or maybe fresh water where basalt or other mineralization isn't there to affect it.

As for those of you looking for knowledge, I strongly recommend you try the different detectors discussed here in this thread. It won't take much testing to realize what is fact and what is opinion.

Reg

Hey Reg! Been waiting for you to chime in! Funny how you Whites guys (you do still work for Whites don't you Reg?) always try and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about because I do not think the TDI is a good PI for the money. I know one thing for certain though Reg, at $1,500.00 the TDI is overpriced by $700.00, and won’t find anything I can’t find with a GMT – or a Sand Shark.

The Sand Shark works as well as the TDI in the Black Sand and hot soil around Rich Hill in the Weaver Mountains, and near Cow Creek, in the Bradshaws. That is where we tested the Sand Shark, TDI, Infinium, and Dual Field, against the Minelab GP3000, and GPX 4000 two years ago. There were no meaningful depth or sensitivity differences in the lower power PI machines when it came to gold prospecting in Arizona.

We decided that all of the low power units – including the TDI and Sand Shark, were not the right machines for us after these tests. We found that none of these machines were as good as our current VLF nuggetshooters in the areas we prospect. I thought maybe I could replace our Minelab SD machines with a lower cost unit, but I was disappointed.

Garrett dealers have no problem selling an AT Pro to hobbyists that want to hunt wet saltwater beaches, so I guess it’s OK for you and Whites to sell the TDI as the poor man’s GPX.

 

[Steve Herschbach]

Is this the "Terry's Little Chunk of Arizona is all that Matters" forum?

 

[Terry Soloman]

Is this the "Terry's Little Chunk of Arizona is all that Matters" forum?

Not at all Steve. Again, I am expressing my opinion based on my personal experience, and the experiences of fellow gold prospectors that I know who have also owned and used these machines. I don't call you and Reg "know nothings," or anything else simply because you do not agree with me on this - I just accept it. I still can't understand your personal attacks though. Isn't it enough to just say "I think you're wrong," and then counter with the facts as you see them? I've never insulted your intelligence or Reg's. I have just disagreed with you, and I hold a much different opinion of a consumer product than you two do.

Are you or Reg married to one of my ex-wives or something Steve? I just don't get the personal venom.

 

[Steve Herschbach]

Nothing personal at all about it Terry. I do not know you personally. Probably a really nice guy? So how could it be personal? I guess you really do not understand how you come across. Maybe all that time spent in New York? Do you ever stop to consider that you do not know everything, and that maybe, just maybe, you should consider people, views, and situations outside your own experience? That what applies to you does not apply to everyone everywhere?

I can put you on a creek or two I know of right now with your Lobo and your Sand Shark and clean your clock with either an Infinium or a TDI. And while I am doing so all the sudden maybe they would not look so overpriced by comparison. I am far more cautious than you in making global pronouncements about any detector simply because I have been around enough to know that there is a time and place for nearly all of them.

You have made a name for yourself on the forums. I am sorry if you think I insulted your intelligence because I think you are a really smart guy. I do not claim to be the brightest bulb in the room - far from it. However, you do display a certain amount of ignorance and unlike some people I am willing to tell you about it. There is a difference between intelligence and ignorance. I guess what I find annoying is willful ignorance. And you seem determined not to learn anything. You have made up your mind about certain things and that is just the way they are. Good luck with that.

I have a lot to learn and I thank Reg and Jim and quite a few people lurking here for what they have taught me and continue to teach me. You want to put yourself on one side of a line and them on another then I am going to stand with them and others like them. I am amazed and humbled to have the ear now and then of people in the industry I look up to and admire. People a whole lot smarter than this high school educated kid from Alaska. I am a very fortunate individual and thank God each and every day for how lucky I have been.

And seriously Terry, do not take it personally. No doubt the things I say and do are about me, not you. I hope you do well in your endeavors this summer. I mean that.

Steve Herschbach

 

[Terry Soloman]

I don't know Steve. I mean, the only one with a "name on the forums" around here is you isn't it? I've been reading your stuff for years. All I did was disagree with you and Reg on the TDI. All of a sudden I'm an arrogant New Yorker who is going to get his clock cleaned if I come to Alaska with my Sand Shark and Lobo. According to you guys I don't know anything about pulse delays, ground balancing a PI, soil timings - heck, I'm just a blowhard outsider that refuses to get on the bus right? You have a great summer as well Steve.

 

[Reg]

Terry,

I do not work for White's nor am I a dealer of any metal detectors and never have been a dealer for White's. I have had many discussions with White's primarily because I am one of few people who really knows and understands the GS 5, which is what the TDI was initially patterned after.

Simply put, I just really enjoy working on PI's and trying different ideas to make them better and that includes offering suggestions to White's related to the TDI. I have been doing this type of recommendations for many years about all detectors well before the TDI came into existence. Back in my VLF days, I offered suggestions to George Payne when he was at Teknetics and later with Discovery. I also made suggestions to Jack Gifford and Rod Hamilton when he was marketing director for Tesoro. In fact I took Rod to the the potato patch on top of Rich Hill and did so with the permission of the previous owners of the property.

Finally, I used to have a lot of discussions and make recommendations to Eric Foster when he was building the Goldscan 5, again well before the TDI existed.

For me, the TDI is a cost effective PI that works well. I don't claim the TDI to be the ultimate detector, but one that works well in its price range. It is that simple. Sorry you can't accept that fact. I also don't expect any person to fully understand how to use the TDI in a few days or weeks for that matter. I also don't claim the TDI to be a ML killer. What I do say is the TDI is a good PI for the price and works well for those willing to put time into learning the tricks. No, it won't compete with any detector that costs 3 to 4 times as much. It was never meant to do that.

Now, I have built non ground balancing PI's for fun and at the onset to see if I could use them for gold hunting, but because they lack the ground balancing feature, I had to develop that feature for my low powered PI I used to use. Today, I won't use any non ground balancing PI for any serious nugget hunting.

BTW, I also use the TDI as a coin hunting detector and for me, it really does kick aZZ for that purpose also.

I also recommend people try a non ground balancing PI for nugget hunting and it won't take long to understand why ground balancing is needed. The TDI allows the operator to turn of the ground balance and many owners have tried it only to turn it back on after a brief trial. Yes, you can turn the delay back so the ground isn't that big of a problem. On the TDI, you would then have to turn back the sensitivity also to better understand how it would be to hunt with a typical non ground balancing PI.

Terry, I also don't know why you feel I am picking on you. Correcting you because you know little to nothing about PI's and the TDI specifically isn't picking on you, it is stating facts. Sorry if you take it wrong. You are certainly entitled to your opinions. I just hate to see those opinions be presented as facts when they are not facts. It is that simple.

As for a person involved with detector dealerships, well, isn't that what you do or have done when you were pushing your AZ expeditions?

You see, the difference between you and me Terry is I don't knock the Tesoro detectors. Their PI's work well for what they were designed for, water hunting in non mineralized environments. The LST is a good detector. In fact I field tested one for LT many years ago. Today it still works well but like all detectors it has its limitations. Personally, I prefer to be able to turn the automatic ground balancing off, which is something that can't be done on the LST. However for a beginner, it probably is a good thing.

One final note, it takes months to fully learn the tricks and features of any good PI and how to use it properly, whether it be the TDI or any of the ML series. I am also reasonably confident you didn't take much more than a day or so in your "testing" of the TDI.

Reg

 

[Terry Soloman]

Well thank goodness you are here to set me straight Reg! I would hate to think I kept even one newbie from spending too much money on a overhyped, overpriced machine. I guess the forum members really owe you a huge debt of gratitude for saving them from such a clueless neophyte. Thanks so much for filling me in on who you are and what you have accomplished. I mean gosh, that completely changes everything. I suppose the TDI is just overpriced, and not overhyped after all.

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

you guys got to give it up / Shake hands

 

[Terry Soloman]

you guys got to give it up / Shake hands

Don't worry Charlie! Steve and Reg think I'm a moron, and I think they're wrong. Gold prospectors have this type of friendly debate all the time. At least on the forum is doesn't evolve into a physical debate It's all good.

 

[Steve Herschbach]

I don't think you are a moron Terry.

 

[BarryInNY]

There were some "nuggets" here if you could process thru all the "pay" dirt...

Hi.

Reading this is almost as much fun as playing ping pong with some of the suck-ups over at the Dankowski forum...

I will say this - I don't know sh-t about PI machines but my business partner Carter knows plenty.
After experiencing what he was able to hear with his White's TDI Pro that we couldn't hear with the White's DF at a Greenwich, CT beach in the wet salt water sand - I'd opt for a waterproof TDI Pro any day of the week...

As a matter of fact...the moment there is a waterproof TDI Pro - the DF will be up for sale...

Again - I don't know jack about PI's...but I do know how to dig another 4-6" and pull out a silver coin or a gold ring....

 

[Steve Herschbach]

Best detector I have ever used in Hawaii - prototype TDI in 2007. I have been waiting for a waterproof version ever since and am going right back to Hawaii the minute I get one.



I liked the desert tan paint job also. Kind of a shame they went with the standard black color scheme in my opinion.

You took (are taking) a real beating over there Barry. Terry is getting hugs and kisses by comparison.

Steve Herschbach

 

[Terry Soloman]

...You took (are taking) a real beating over there Barry. Terry is getting hugs and kisses by comparison.

Steve Herschbach

I agree with that!

 

[BarryInNY]

You took (are taking) a real beating over there Barry. Terry is getting hugs and kisses by comparison.
Steve Herschbach

LOL Steve and Terry...I'm happy you two are bros now...

There basically is a small group of groupies over there bowing to the great "goddess" of double-talk and sheer gobbledygook commentary...not knocking the guy's intelligence because he obviously knows the technical details...but reading some of the bizarre crap comments he throws around - can you imagine having a few brews or spending a day or two detecting with that guy? Shoot me now or I'd rather spend 6 hours playing golf...hahahaha........

Steve - you have no idea how many guys sent us PM's and emails in support...whatever...it's all over for me and Carter there...he pulled our tickets...however - I'm already back.........in drag.......hahaha.....and I loved some of your comments.........

And Terry - you OWE me a return email!!!

 

[GarretDiggingAz]

You know what? I loved the debate. I've had chats with terry and know he likes the minelab or is it love it terry. Lol
I think each detector serves its purpose depending on the circumstances. If i gad the money, i'd probably get one of each. After reading a lot on these detectors. I still can't figure which I'd want to get. For here in AZ I figured the 5000 might do the trick. But then again I haven't found enough (none yet) gold to get it yet.
You guys have sure spit out a lot of info about PIs and I'll just sit back and digest it. One of these days I'll have to try them out and come up with my own opinion. Lol
As for now I'll be swinging my cheap VLF and pray I can get enough to upgrade to the big boy toy.
Thx all for the info on PIs, believe me I value all the info being such a newbie. They could never create the do-it-all detector. If they did, eventually no more sales/job.
Hoping to bump into ya Terry in the hills. Maybe you could show me a trick or two. I was supposed to be up there on the 5th, but broke my ankle. At least ya told me I could find gold with my VLF. It helped me get my starter for this awesome hobby.

 

[Steve Herschbach]

For here in AZ I figured the 5000 might do the trick.

Well, no might about it. The whole thing is pretty simple if money is no object. Just get a GPX 5000 and learn it well and use it hard. Get a GPX 5000 and put yourself on ground where nuggets exist. If you know how to run it and work long and hard at digging every target you will find gold. Add a Gold Bug 2 with 6" coil for tiny stuff and you got it covered. It really is that simple.

It is only when people say "I can't afford it" that the discussion heats up. It at least presents food for thought. Glad you got some value from it.

 

[Treasure finder]

Good discussion guys,
I just found 57 cents in black sand at the beach while looking for gold (rings) with my water proof ground balancing Infinium.
Thanks Garrett for a great detector.
Rich

 

[Reg]

Hi GarrettdiggingAZ and others wanting more information on PI's on other detectors, here are a couple of reading suggestions.

First, here is a link to something I wrote for Bill to post on his prospecting website. The info was written about 10 years ago when very little was written or really known about PI's. Since there was little written at the time and many people were getting into PI's, Bill asked me if I would write something like this for him.

Understanding The PI Detector

The information is still valid today. Now, if you want more technical information on how detectors work and maybe how to build one, I recommend a new book written by Carl Moreland and George Overton. Here is a link to it.

Geotech Forums - Inside the Metal Detector

Reg