What are these bone sticks?

[larson1951]

I have never found a complete one
they are all broke
2 groups with front and back of each group
they are not knife handles
what is your opinion?
anyone got one?

 

[larson1951]

Ivan, would you be so kind as to post a link to this site you found on google that has a picture of these same bones?
I thank you in advance for this
I can not find it and am anxiously awaiting your post
once again, thanks much
sincerely, steve

 

[jamey]

this is a great post.i too have blackfoot indian in my blood,but my parents,never talked about it.i remember my grandma always never drinking or eating all her stuff,said she was leaving it for the little people.i really do not think that a shamen would get mad if someone like mr larson picked it up and wondered what it was,if fact if he knew it he would feel blessed i think because what he belives has lived on if we could just figure it out.but i also think that we created monsters,we as in the ones who lied stole and cheated the indians who has put alot of hatered in his pieces and the spirits knew it was right for this hatered and left it as so.so if a bad hearted man picked it up he my have to deal with it,a good hearted man has nothing to worry about.i really think the indians were closer to god than we are.jmo jamey

 

[Tnmountains]

I think its speculation at best on the shamanistic aspects of these broke bones. I see it in the Andes area but not Larsons. I do believe his thoughts are correct on them.They are a great artifact and I would keep them and show them the respect they deserve.
Nice finds Larson the no till is going in here right now. I dream of fields cut like yours. I lease and one field that is an unbelievable site by a cave with a spring has been in pasture for twenty years : ( Enjoy seeing your finds.

 

[chong2]

when i find a artifact i always leave something as trade or peace, normally cigg tabacco, if it is a nice piece or a special piece, i will lave a whole smoke, exactly where the artifact is laying, lately we got a pouch of tops and just use a pinch. i always thought it as respectful.

as for these bone sticks, the medicine man surly saw into the future, a man picking these up. i would in no way have returned them, i would have made sure to display these rare artifacts. im sure the med man would be proud of his workings on display, whatever the reason. hopefully you--------> "returned" <------them just to please someone in particular on this board so it would not cause a uprising

would everyone be in the same boat who owns mimbres pottery with kill holes, which were burried with the dead? we are talking about thousands of individual pieces.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

thanks chong...respect is the universal language.
i find myself leaving tobacco even if i don't take things home.

i have known some sun dancers...and i don't recall ever seeing any bones of this nature...i have been reading up since the first post...and can not find any reference to bones and religious events...unless it is the bone handle of a stone knife.

i did find a few references to sticks being used in religious events...healing ceremony..sticks discarded after the event...didn't read anything about breaking the stick...

the objects are shaped like weaving shuttles..but the souix didn't weave cloth that i know of...

these are fantastic relics...if you wish to put them back...just a suggestion...throwing them in a field you plow is not respectful...i'd find a nice little hillside...looking east...leave tabacco and some corn pollen...put all questionable finds you wish to return there...if you wish to go traditional, put the corn pollen and tabacco in blue and red cloth...tie up in bundles...black and yellow...

 

[ivan salis]

my grand mother fathers side came from a long line of inative american -"ndain" healers -- I learned many things from her as a child --thus I know of "throwing the bones" and yes they are one use to be discarded afterwards (they are broken to prevent reuse by others) --
thank you pippin for saying that you have read up on some of the rites --I learned many things from my grandmother --not from "a book" --many things about native american culture are NOT written in the white mans books on purpose --some knowledge was not ever meant to be shared and recorded in their way . -- it was meant to be passed on in the old way by word of mouth --father / mother --to son /daughter or grandson /granddaughter.

 

[larson1951]

Ivan, Thank you for your words
I appreciate reading your posts on this subject
and I respect what you have to say

 

[ivan salis]

thank you I respect the fact that you have the wisdom to understand what I am trying to convey to others -- "holy burail areras and mound"s and "sacred" religious" items are not to me messed with ----

these "holy places" and "holy items" are not your everyday surface find or metal detecting indain trinket (like a arrowhead or bit of pottery shard or a few lost beads would be) --I have no problems with collecting everyday lost bit of stuff -- but knowingly raiding "holy sites" or by knowingly keeping "religious items" I do have issues with (if found photogragh and record them well) -- and then let them be --keeping religious items is deeply disrepectful ---(try going into a church and "ripping" their cross of the wall and see if folks think thats ok) plus -- other folks would not want their great great grandmother dug up and her burail items ripped from her body -- nor do I.

 

[Airborne80]

I do not know what these are but they seem to have tally marks on them. maybe they were used to keep track of kills? In any case, they are awesome and I wish that I could find something like that. I always thank the spirits for a find, leave an offering and promise to respectfully preserve and display the finds and never to profit from them in any way. I just have to believe that they would be happy and proud that something they found so important was cherished and preserved rather than left in the dirt forever. Who knows?

 

[larson1951]

Ivan, do you know what the markings on the upper photo mean? they look like MMMM

also do you know what the marks on the lower photo mean? I thought looked like feathers on a staff
Thanks for all of your comments

 

[jamey]

hey mr larson i read were they used to play a game were they would try to guess were the disc with a hole in it would stop and closet one to it won,had something on the stick to try to get the hole to fall in it.it was a big deal alot of people would come see it and bet on it,even thier women and daughters would be standing at the gift display place,but they always broke thier sticks after the game,anyone herd of it. jamey

 

[Tnmountains]

Jamey
Are you thinking about the game called chunky?

 

[jamey]

yes,i think that's it.looks like they played alot of games there.i can see them wanting to make a killer stick,with all those people from far away coming to participate and watch. jamey

 

[BuckleBoy]

Could these be tally marks used to count or record a number?

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

i found one object made of rib bones in souix cultural area...

it was a sled...but not carved with symbols...

http://www.siouxcitylcic.com/lakota/lakota.html

 

[larson1951]

Hi Pip, those broken sticks were at most only 6 inches long
I like the links to the sled made from buffalo ribs (for which I thank you)
I have found some of those sled rails before
they have many scratches and are very polished and shiny on the bottom side (the side that rides on the snow or sometimes ground)
I picked several of these up and put them back on the ground 20-30 yrs ago because I did not know what they were
The sled rails I have found were full length of about 14-18 inches

 

[relix]

Does your friend live on an organic farm? I was just wondering why anyone would plow to get rid of weeds when they could just spray.

 

[lostlake88]

j

 

[larson1951]

till with a duck foot at four inches to get rid of creeping jenny and kocia
can't spray because there are water wells close by

 

[RobKruzan]

Larson if you want to keep all the spirits off your back box everything up and mail it to me I will be glad to have them No but seriously go back out and pick them back up all they are going to do is get destroyd under a plow...Lets not be silly here Im not knocking on an indians believes by any means but I have yet to see anyone who collects artifacts have bad spririts chasing them around but as stated earlier send those spirits over this way.