What is this?

[teammajic]

I foun this today while searching for a civil war campsite,never did find the campsite but found this odd piece anybody have a clue what it is ? The whole goese all the way threw and the hole is larger on the tappered end than it is on the other. Any ideas?

 

[woodstock]

What makes you think it's only a decoration ... ? It's either a bore reamer or a bevel gear . I used to be a gear "Hobber" and for those who don't know what that is a gear Hobber runs a gear pattern "Hobbing Machine" that cuts the gears "pitch" to customer spec's . The tapered hole serves a good purpose and makes it very hard to remove when in place . If it was a modern gear it would also have a "key way" for more security . Ball joints on vehicles have tapered holes. Have you ever tried to remove one without a "pickle fork ?" ... darn near impossible ! I just can't see it as "Horn weights" . Not with the gear teeth , bevel and pitch ... like I said previously ... a reamer or bevel gear ... it my best theory and although a guess I'm sticking to this ID . Woodstock

I dont think its a gear or a reamer. I think its decoration.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

I can't tell you what it is, but I can tell you with 100%-certainty that it is not an artillery projectile nor a part of one.

To me, the odd-est thing about its peculiar form is that it shows no way whatsoever of attaching it to something else. That is the characteristic which excludes most of the potential IDs. Nor is there any visible indication on its body that it is a broken-off part of a larger object. The tapered, non-threaded hole through it is another major oddity about it.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

What makes you think it's only a decoration ... ? It's either a bore reamer or a bevel gear . I used to be a gear "Hobber" and for those who don't know what that is a gear Hobber runs a gear pattern "Hobbing Machine" that cuts the gears "pitch" to customer spec's . The tapered hole serves a good purpose and makes it very hard to remove when in place . If it was a modern gear it would also have a "key way" for more security . Ball joints on vehicles have tapered holes. Have you ever tried to remove one without a "pickle fork ?" ... darn near impossible ! I just can't see it as "Horn weights" . Not with the gear teeth , bevel and pitch ... like I said previously ... a reamer or bevel gear ... it my best theory and although a guess I'm sticking to this ID . Woodstock

I hear you but I still respectfully disagree. I have worked with many reamers and gears and IMO it looks like neither.

I will agree with you on the tapered hole. It can be forced on to a tapered horn or wood handle

Horn weight is just a wild guess and I stated that I am unable to find a match.


Pictures can be deceiving esp. to those without experience IDing from only a few photos. Take another look at this photo. Do you really think it looks like a gear? Where are the teeth? I have never seen gear teeth wear this way. I guessed decoration because its too rounded.

Quote Teammajic

I thought it was some kinda gear but the grooves are rounded it dont look like its wore but made that way​

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I can't tell you what it is, but I can tell you with 100%-certainty that it is not an artillery projectile nor a part of one.

To me, the odd-est thing about its peculiar form is that it shows no way whatsoever of attaching it to something else. That is the characteristic which excludes most of the potential IDs. Nor is there any visible indication on its body that it is a broken-off part of a larger object. The tapered, non-threaded hole through it is another major oddity about it.

Woodstock suggested a "cannon bore cleaner" or "bore reamer." Do you have an opinion on this? Thanks.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Is this iron or brass?

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

In my professional opinion it is not artillery-related in any way.

I meant to mention in my prior post, I think an important clue is that the flat end of it is not "smoothly" flat, but instead shows casting irregularities. It was not manufactured smoothly flat, nor has usage caused that area to "wear" flat. In fact, there's no sign of "wear" at all on that end, nor the other end -- which also seems to show minor casting irregularities. That seems to exclude some potential ID possibilities.

 

[teammajic]

Its iron.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

In my professional opinion it is not artillery-related in any way.

I meant to mention in my prior post, I think an important clue is that the flat end of it is not "smoothly" flat, but instead shows casting irregularities. It was not manufactured smoothly flat, nor has usage caused that area to "wear" flat. In fact, there's no sign of "wear" at all on that end, nor the other end -- which also seems to show minor casting irregularities. That seems to exclude some potential ID possibilities.

I didnt think it was cannon bore related but I wanted your opinion because you have more experience in this area.

We may not know what it is but we know what it isnt.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Unless my eyes are deceiving me I see casting irregularities on the sides as well so that certainly rules out any type of gear. This item has not been machined.

gear= no
cannon bore cleaner= no
reamer= no

 

[bigfoot1]

this photo shows an iron gas street lamp finial,pretty close......

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

this photo shows an iron gas street lamp finial,pretty close......View attachment 786840

can you post the link?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

teammajic in what kind of area did you find it? was it farmland? any other items found near it? was it cleaned? was it found in plain view?

 

[bigfoot1]

bigcy...it is an auction house...dont see it there anymore but here it is...cast iron light fixture | Antiques (US)....found it google images,iron street lamp finial

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

bigcy...it is an auction house...dont see it there anymore but here it is...cast iron light fixture | Antiques (US)....found it google images,iron street lamp finial

I cant find it but its not an exact match anyway but it does support my theory of decoration. Because its not machined, it cant possibly be a gear or reamer.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Some of the casting irregularities almost look like welding marks.

 

[woodstock]

Ok Bigcypresshunter I understand or we both understand a few things about this object and it seems that your set like I'am on certain things about this piece . And I love to hear everyone's guesses . Where I think you and I will totally agree on is that it's old and made of Iron with grooves and a tapered whole , but that is the only thing we see the same.In my past I learned things that I base my opinions on with this object .I think your opinion on it not being machined in some way a wrong opinion and seeing that I've made gears for a major machine manufacture . I know and even made gears shaped like this for vehicle differentials or rear ends , have you looked at those gears? The ones that drive the gear in the pumpkin are tapered , kind of like this one . But seeing that you don't know the total history of this object how can you be so certain it wasn't machined or forged in some way ? If forged they used a die to hammer the steel through into shape and not even look like it was forged but like it was machined. I know this cause my late father was a Hammerman for just over 30 years and made gears for tanks and many other large equipment .What I see is a taper gear that either was stripped and discarded . That's why the ridges are rounded off . And it also suffers from many years of oxidation from rust and that's another reason for that rounding . Many primitive gears do not look like modern gears . And in the case of my suggestion that it might be a bore reamer for a smaller artillery canon was based on some of the primitive tools that were made for Gunsmiths . None of that equipment even resembles modern day reamers ... look at the primitive drills used to make a rifle bore back in the Flintlock days and maybe then you'll see that I based all of my identification on things I've seen used in the past, in fact it looks like a large bit used to deburr a larger hole that rotated on a shaft or maybe even by hand . And a hole doesn't have to be threaded to hold a axle or a pole to rotate on . Depending on the tapered side or where it was required to stay put a tapered hole has be used for that purpose for many years . Without seeing the original complete assembly you and I don't know how it would have been held in place . Maybe the axle pushed through the hole and was held in place with another sort of fastener . So please try to look at it when it was new , that's the way I would look at it and how I tried to ID it . If those rounded edges where clean and square on the ends it would more resemble a gear. Only then can you open your mind to accepting what the purpose of a tapered hole or how it could be held in place by one then maybe you can see how I base my conclusions .After all , the only thing that I question about your ID is the design was just for decoration . I see as part of a larger piece or a tapered gear that drove another (maybe stagecoach steering or large wagon) or some sort of a bore cleaner for a small cannon . I respect your ID but still feel your off base and need to take a look at the objects I base mine on rather than assuming that it's not machined or forged in some way for another perpose other than a pretty piece ... no disrespect met here ... just a clash of idea's . And if you can let me know why in your opinion (after reading this response) other than TreasureNet seniority you find it only for looks/decoration and not for a purpose ? Best Regards and Happy Trails , Woodstock

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Hello woodstock. Try to read back in the posts I think we explained it pretty well. It has nothing to do with seniority and I am always willing to learn.

Click on the picture 2x and it will enlarge. You can clearly see that this object was never machined and it is not worn. Besides that teammajic says it not worn. There is very little oxidation and rust on this item and I questioned if was found above ground.

If that doesnt help clarify then I will try to explain it better but please study the photos first.

CannonBallGuy is an expert on Civil War era artifacts particularily those that are Artillery related.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

My computer is so slow here at TN I may need to quit. Its too frustrating to post and very hard to edit.


I wanted to add that at first glance it looks like a very worn gear. Its the exact size and shape. I thought gear myself at first. Its a good guess. Your guess even sounds logical but further observation shows otherwise.

 

[woodstock]

I'm not questioning your expertise in any way . We don't even know if this is from the same time period just because it was discovered at a past civil war sight . And I still can't wrap my mind around insisting this piece wasn't machined or die forged without seeing the original piece . I and you have seen tons of corroded iron and sometimes that corrosion disfigures the iron to the point of the item being unidentifiable . So even though I respect your prior experience and your expertise I myself wouldn't and couldn't say 100% that this piece isn't or never had been machined or die forged without seeing the original piece .
Don't get me wrong cause you've opened my eyes to other possibility's and I have absorbed your knowledge about your ID opinion , now I hope you can understand mine .. Woodstock

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Ok Bigcypresshunter I understand or we both understand a few things about this object and it seems that your set like I'am on certain things about this piece . And I love to hear everyone's guesses . Where I think you and I will totally agree on is that it's old and made of Iron with grooves and a tapered whole , but that is the only thing we see the same.In my past I learned things that I base my opinions on with this object .I think your opinion on it not being machined in some way a wrong opinion and seeing that I've made gears for a major machine manufacture . I know and even made gears shaped like this for vehicle differentials or rear ends , have you looked at those gears? The ones that drive the gear in the pumpkin are tapered , kind of like this one . But seeing that you don't know the total history of this object how can you be so certain it wasn't machined or forged in some way ? If forged they used a die to hammer the steel through into shape and not even look like it was forged but like it was machined. I know this cause my late father was a Hammerman for just over 30 years and made gears for tanks and many other large equipment .What I see is a taper gear that either was stripped and discarded . That's why the ridges are rounded off . And it also suffers from many years of oxidation from rust and that's another reason for that rounding . Many primitive gears do not look like modern gears . And in the case of my suggestion that it might be a bore reamer for a smaller artillery canon was based on some of the primitive tools that were made for Gunsmiths . None of that equipment even resembles modern day reamers ... look at the primitive drills used to make a rifle bore back in the Flintlock days and maybe then you'll see that I based all of my identification on things I've seen used in the past, in fact it looks like a large bit used to deburr a larger hole that rotated on a shaft or maybe even by hand . And a hole doesn't have to be threaded to hold a axle or a pole to rotate on . Depending on the tapered side or where it was required to stay put a tapered hole has be used for that purpose for many years . Without seeing the original complete assembly you and I don't know how it would have been held in place . Maybe the axle pushed through the hole and was held in place with another sort of fastener . So please try to look at it when it was new , that's the way I would look at it and how I tried to ID it . If those rounded edges where clean and square on the ends it would more resemble a gear. Only then can you open your mind to accepting what the purpose of a tapered hole or how it could be held in place by one then maybe you can see how I base my conclusions .After all , the only thing that I question about your ID is the design was just for decoration . I see as part of a larger piece or a tapered gear that drove another (maybe stagecoach steering or large wagon) or some sort of a bore cleaner for a small cannon . I respect your ID but still feel your off base and need to take a look at the objects I base mine on rather than assuming that it's not machined or forged in some way for another perpose other than a pretty piece ... no disrespect met here ... just a clash of idea's . And if you can let me know why in your opinion (after reading this response) other than TreasureNet seniority you find it only for looks/decoration and not for a purpose ? Best Regards and Happy Trails , Woodstock

OK I have reconsidered because of your experience.. Its hard to tell from a picture. They can be very deceiving.

But if CannonBallGuy says it not artillery related, I would have to go with him on that.

As far as it being a gear, maybe its an old worn out gear has some modern weld splattering on it making it look like it was never worn. Does this theory sound feasable?

Yes its hard to say anything 100 percent from a picture or photo.