Whites Vintage Coinmaster - Question for the Old Timers

[Venner]

White's Vintage Coinmaster - Question for the Old Timers

Hey all.

Back in '84, a friend of my father's gave him a White's Coinmaster 6000/Di Series 3, which we had fun with when I was growing up. I got pretty darn familiar with that machine over the years and my dad still breaks it out once in a great while.

A couple of weeks ago, I ran across a 5900/Di at a flea market and negotiated it down to $20; all I needed was the battery holder, which I got in the mail from White's. Now that my father is retired, I think it'll be fun to get out with him and metal detect some weekends, and now we both have detectors.

Well, I'm running into a couple of issues with the machines. I thought it was just mine (the 5900) at first, but I got out the 6000 as well and it's behaving the same way.
Either machine runs fine in TR DISC mode, but that's the least sensitive setting and gets the least depth; you practically have to sweep an object through the dead center of the coil for it to register.
GEB Norm works almost fine; I can ground balance it and hunt in that mode, but the meter will occasionally jump for no reason. It makes it annoying to try to get an idea of what you're detecting. (E.g., first two sweeps will say iron, then it'll jump to Quarter on the third sweep, and it doesn't hold a reading very long.)

GEB DISC is the real bear; I can't get it working at all. No matter how I ground balance, no matter what settings for the GEB, DISC, or TUNER dials, the machine behaves erratically. It chirps randomly and the meter jumps around, even when the machine sits still. If it was just the one unit, I'd attribute it to a short, leaky capacitor, etc -- the machines aren't exactly youngins' -- but it's the same for both.

I've included some photos and even a video of the behavior. If anyone has any ideas of what is going on, I'd very much appreciate hearing your thoughts. We mostly look for coins and I am already sick of digging old nails -- I'd really like a working DISC mode back! :-)

Video Link:


Photos:
The 6000 with the red meter we've had almost 30 years, the 5900 with the blue meter I've had about two weeks.
Basically the same detector, the 5900 just lacks the 6000's auto-ground balance that lets it adjust slightly if mineralization varies.
(Click to view larger.)

 

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[Sandman]

Off hand I'd say it is just EMI fields that cause both detectors to misbehave. We didn't have microwave, cell phone towers or cell phones when these things were made. You might have a Wi-Fi router in the house too or a buried dog fence or security system.
http://www.fisherlab.com/hobby/davejohnson/Electrical Interference.htm

BTW, Welcome to Tnet

 

[christo000]

Hey all.

Back in '84, a friend of my father's gave him a White's Coinmaster 6000/Di Series 3, which we had fun with when I was growing up. I got pretty darn familiar with that machine over the years and my dad still breaks it out once in a great while.

A couple of weeks ago, I ran across a 5900/Di at a flea market and negotiated it down to $20; all I needed was the battery holder, which I got in the mail from White's. Now that my father is retired, I think it'll be fun to get out with him and metal detect some weekends, and now we both have detectors.

Well, I'm running into a couple of issues with the machines. I thought it was just mine (the 5900) at first, but I got out the 6000 as well and it's behaving the same way.
Either machine runs fine in TR DISC mode, but that's the least sensitive setting and gets the least depth; you practically have to sweep an object through the dead center of the coil for it to register.
GEB Norm works almost fine; I can ground balance it and hunt in that mode, but the meter will occasionally jump for no reason. It makes it annoying to try to get an idea of what you're detecting. (E.g., first two sweeps will say iron, then it'll jump to Quarter on the third sweep, and it doesn't hold a reading very long.)

GEB DISC is the real bear; I can't get it working at all. No matter how I ground balance, no matter what settings for the GEB, DISC, or TUNER dials, the machine behaves erratically. It chirps randomly and the meter jumps around, even when the machine sits still. If it was just the one unit, I'd attribute it to a short, leaky capacitor, etc -- the machines aren't exactly youngins' -- but it's the same for both.

I've included some photos and even a video of the behavior. If anyone has any ideas of what is going on, I'd very much appreciate hearing your thoughts. We mostly look for coins and I am already sick of digging old nails -- I'd really like a working DISC mode back! :-)

Video Link:
Video Link: http://youtu.be/ePgI-9CdFic

Photos:
The 6000 with the red meter we've had almost 30 years, the 5900 with the blue meter I've had about two weeks.
Basically the same detector, the 5900 just lacks the 6000's auto-ground balance that lets it adjust slightly if mineralization varies.
(Click to view larger.)

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=815339"/><img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=815340"/>

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[a4wdguy]

It seems to have a pattern. My first guess is EMI. Take the detector somewhere else (the farther away, the better), perform an air test on a quarter or dime, and see what you get. Also, since you say you are getting the behavior out of both detectors, set them up identically, one on each side of that pole and see if they exhibit the same pattern. If so, you'll know for sure it's EMI.

Good luck.

 

[Venner]

My first thought was that it was caused by the electric fence on the back of my folks' property, but the detectors have exhibited the same behavior at three different locations, one of which was a couple of miles from even normal power lines. Obviously you can't shield a detector -- they're designed to pick up EM frequencies after all! -- but it must be something in the RF band. I just don't know what. Cell/radio and microwave/Wifi are in MHz and GHz ranges while these units are in the KHz, but I suppose the circuit could be tuning on harmonics; they probably didn't need to put in any LP filters to block out such interference back when these were manufactured...

I just find it really odd that it only seriously affects the GEB DISC mode. My impression (from reading a bevy of other foum posts here and elsewhere) was that GEB and GEB DISC were essentially the same, and that all the DISC dial did was mute the audio on signals below the threshold -- it didn't actually alter the way the detector functioned in GEB mode.

 

[christo000]

I to would have to say from how ur explaining it EMI try a different área & give this a shot I do it to my Atpro with all coils & my whites v3i with all the coils re wrap ur coil and dont start to wrap it until a foot or so up the shaft then start to wrap it clockwise seems it helped my pro run more stable & quieter same with the whites to also got less falsing signals

 

[a4wdguy]

The coil cable on the 5900 is wrapped incorrectly, it should be like the 6000. Also, the coil mounting screw for the 5900 is incorrect. It should be a brass screw with knurled knobs on both ends. This is true for both detectors (in case the 6000 is also wrong, I can't see it well enough to be sure).
However, neither of these items is going to cause the behavior you have recorded. If you had the sensitivity set crazy high, maybe, but everything is as the preset, so the untouched detector should rest quietly waiting to be passed over a target. As you noted, only the least sensitive mode is unaffected. And it is affecting two unrelated detectors exactly the same way. Though the are labeled differently, they are identical.
All this shows the problem to be external. What external power source is causing it is beyond me. I have had both these detectors and never saw this kind of behavior from them.

 

[Carl-NC]

Venner, I'm guessing that the rotary switch used for the Mode control has gone bad. These are big multi-prong slide switches that went obsolete years ago, and was the primary reason (besides poor sales) the XL-Pro (last of the 6000 series) was canceled. No one makes the switches, no one has any more, and if that's the problem, White's cannot fix it.

- Carl

 

[a4wdguy]

Venner, I'm guessing that the rotary switch used for the Mode control has gone bad. These are big multi-prong slide switches that went obsolete years ago, and was the primary reason (besides poor sales) the XL-Pro (last of the 6000 series) was canceled. No one makes the switches, no one has any more, and if that's the problem, White's cannot fix it.

- Carl

That's good to know when considering future purchases. Thanks!

 

[Venner]

The coil cable on the 5900 is wrapped incorrectly, it should be like the 6000. Also, the coil mounting screw for the 5900 is incorrect. It should be a brass screw with knurled knobs on both ends. This is true for both detectors (in case the 6000 is also wrong, I can't see it well enough to be sure).

I can verify that the coil screws are identical on the two detectors and that the one on the 6000 came like that right out of the White's box in 1984 When I first observed the behavior with the 5900, I thought the cable might've been damaged, so I tested it in various configurations. (Interestingly, I found that if I do go right by the electric fence on my folks' property, I can affect the signal simply by touching the metal housing. The circuit is likely grounded to the casing, but it confirms a lack of much filtering / shielding.)

I have had both these detectors and never saw this kind of behavior from them.

Ditto. The last time we had the 6000 out before this was about 5 years ago and it worked just fine. I'll have to try taking it farther afield too; I live in a very rural area, but for all I know there's some new county communications system or something affecting it.

Venner, I'm guessing that the rotary switch used for the Mode control has gone bad. These are big multi-prong slide switches that went obsolete years ago, and was the primary reason (besides poor sales) the XL-Pro (last of the 6000 series) was canceled. No one makes the switches, no one has any more, and if that's the problem, White's cannot fix it.

It's possible - and good info to know - but I would be surprised that it happened simultaneously on two machines and with the same switch (out of 6). On the plus side, while the same switches might not be produced anymore, these old units are likely electronics-hobbiest repair-friendly in a way that modern units are not. I may have to open up one of the cases, break out an old circuits textbook, and see what I can possibly do.

 

[63bkpkr]

Venner, Those are both wonderful machines, a touch heavy but wonderful! If those were my machines I would purchase a can of spray on electronic contact cleaner. I would use the cleaner on all switches and on anything with a multi-position knob. To properly get at all of those old contacts I would take the boxes apart, spray directly into each turny/twisty/flippy thing and then turn/twist/flip several times and it may take several applications of the spray & method to remove corrosion from the wiper surfaces. I did this with the 6000D I have and it brought it back to life.

Best of luck bringing these units back to life.......................63bkpkr

 

[okla. prospector]

My brother has the whites 5900 it was doing close to the same thing. He sent it to the dealer in Washington state, they fixed it for like $60. He said it was a wire in the handle that was lose. It works great for him now. He did say that they were the cheapest to fix it and that the dealers in our area wanted more to fix it. Hope this helps.

 

[Lab Rat Pappy]

Venner You might want to try using a ferrite choke coil to try cutting down on the EMI. The coil will snap onto the coil wire just before it enters the box. I have an area that I hunt in the has some very bad EMI, and this helped to reduce the effect. The coils are available at Radio Shack for about 5 bucks, and they snap on and off. Good luck with your problem. Lab Rat Pappy

 

[christo000]

Venner You might want to try using a ferrite choke coil to try cutting down on the EMI. The coil will snap onto the coil wire just before it enters the box. I have an area that I hunt in the has some very bad EMI, and this helped to reduce the effect. The coils are available at Radio Shack for about 5 bucks, and they snap on and off. Good luck with your problem. Lab Rat Pappy

Ive seen those on line eBay always wondered what they would do if anything. Isnt it basically 2 magnets inside the casing I never seen one up close I know there pretty cheap though what kinda machine are u using it on