Who and Whats it Worth?

[Bigcypresshunter]

Who and What's it Worth?

I found this and another framed picture sticking out the top of a dumpster today. Too bad it got wet. I am drying it out.
What Indian is this? Is this an original photograph or copy? Is it worth anything in this condition?
It says HEAD*DRESS- ATSINA.

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Who and What's it Worth?

I think I found it. I will study it later when I have more time.
http://www.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=455743

 

[Gypsy Heart]

Re: Who and What's it Worth?

A band of Arapaho, the Atsina roamed the plains between the Missouri and Saskatchewan Rivers. This Algonquian-speaking band was sometimes confused with another tribe called Gros Ventre, a tribe of Minitari Hidatsa that lived nearby. French trappers interpreted the sign language for "Atsina" (hands moved along the torso) as the similar sign used for those neighboring Hidatsa. The sign for Atsina meant "hunger," while the sign for Minatari Hidatsa referred to the chest tattoos the men displayed.

A Plains tribe, the nomadic Atsina followed the bison herds, living in tepees and trading with other Indians for the trade goods and produce they needed. Guns and ammunition they had received from the British gave them an advantage over other Plains bands like the Shoshone.

Lewis and Clark often thought they were close to the Atsina or had encountered them. When the Corps met the Lemhi Shoshone, the tribe had been attacked recently by the Atsina, losing about 20 men in the raid. Later, on the return journey in 1806, Lewis mistakenly identified a group of Blackfeet Indians as "Minatarees of the Prairie," another name for the Atsina.

By 1888 the Atsina had been removed to a reservation at Fort Belknap, Montana, which they shared with the Assiniboin. According to the 1990 census there were 2,800 Atsina remaining.

 

[watercolor]

Re: Who and What's it Worth?

If you take that image out of the frame and see the name Edward Curtis anywhere, it could be worth big bucks.
If not, it's still a wonderful find.

Take care,
watercolor

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Who and What's it Worth?

if its an original edward curtis photo it could be big bucks * with that old type frame and looks it just might be one. -- very cool .

 

[B|lker]

Re: Who and What's it Worth?

Oh my

Dumpster huh?
I`ve done my share of dumpster diving

Awesome find.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Who and What's it Worth?

If you take that image out of the frame and see the name Edward Curtis anywhere, it could be worth big bucks.
If not, it's still a wonderful find.

Take care,
watercolor

Thanks Gypsy, water, ivan & Bj for your help. I removed it from the frame but there is no markings on the back. The paper is very thick, brown and looks old. Its 15 x 20.

Here is what it says under the picture in very small print. I had to look with a magnifying glass. It appears to be a copy but maybe an old one. Can anyone judge the age by this? Photogravure?


HEAD--DRESS -- ATSINA

From Copyright Photograph 1908 by ESCurtis

Photogravure John Andrew & Son

 

[Blacksheep]

Re: Who and What's it Worth?

Cool link, may or may not interest you. Great pic, damaged or not i would
hanging it after it dried out.

http://curtis.library.northwestern.edu/curtis/browsetribes.html

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Who and What's it Worth?

Heres a John Andrew & Son Photogravure of an Indian for $1500. http://www.aquilabooks.com/CURTIS/SpokanMan.html

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Who and What's it Worth?

Im trying to find out if I have an old 1908 Photogravure copy or a $10 modern copy. Im sorry I posted in a rush without giving you all the information. Maybe the paper will tell me. I have a very heavy paper, almost cardboard. I found this link. Does anyone know how to ID these paper types or anything about Photogravures that will help me ID this?

http://www.creativephotography.org/documents/findingAid/AG7EdwardCurtisPic.pdf

...Once made, the plates were inked, covered with dampened paper, and
printed, one at a time, using a flatbed press. The images were printed on three different paper
stocks: a Japanese tissue, a rice paper called ‘vellum,’ and a heavier, watermarked paper called
Van Gelder.



Interesting link Blacksheep. My Indian may be in there.

 

[watercolor]

Re: Who and What's it Worth?



I believe you might have one of the unbound gravure plates that was reproduce in Curtis' 20 volume porfolio series which originally sold for $3,000 back then. . . a complete 20 volume set today goes for about $250,000 and up. I've seen similar individual Curtis plates for sale around $400.

Again, VERY cool

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Who and What's it Worth?

I believe you might have one of the unbound gravure plates that was reproduce in Curtis' 20 volume porfolio series which originally sold for $3,000 back then. . . a complete 20 volume set today goes for about $250,000 and up. I've seen similar individual Curtis plates for sale around $400.

Again, VERY cool

Thanks watercolor. Do you think it is old? I will have to search through the 2500 images in the book to see if my HEAD-DRESS -- ATSINA Indian is there.

 

[watercolor]

Re: Who and What's it Worth?

I believe you might have one of the unbound gravure plates that was reproduce in Curtis' 20 volume porfolio series which originally sold for $3,000 back then. . . a complete 20 volume set today goes for about $250,000 and up. I've seen similar individual Curtis plates for sale around $400.

Again, VERY cool

Thanks watercolor. Do you think it is old? I will have to search through the 2500 images in the book to see if my HEAD-DRESS -- ATSINA Indian is there.

Yes, I believe it is old.

Your indian most likely was once part of one of these 20 volume sets and
often individual plates were taken out of these volumes and then framed like yours was.

 

[Angelo]

Re: Who and What's it Worth?

Another photo.

http://www.old-picture.com/atsina-index-001.htm

Click on the sites photo and it will give you a Curator contact email.

Tony