Why did Travis Tumlinson Fake the Stone Maps as a Hoax?

[releventchair]

RC,

Having never had the urge to go to Texas and bother that family, I have no "homework" to believe. I am probably the reason that they are no longer posting, piecemeal, the information they are gathering. I received a call from RG which deteriorated into a verbal whipping over my posting "likes" and not being totally on board with that entire affair.

I was asked my opinion on how they were releasing the information and if they should just stop posting. I opined I thought they would be better off to just wait until they were ready to release the entire project.....book, film or whatever.

As I have mentioned before, I don't really have a dog in this fight and I'm more than willing to wait and see the story when it's finalized. I've also mentioned that I'm no fan of the story, as it's being presented. Having said that, I can see the reasoning that Ryan is doing it the way he is.

Once again, I wish Ryan, his team and the Tumlinson family all the luck in the world.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

C-Jumper:
I'm with you on wishing all luck.
As with anyone in a pursuit.

Homework as in finding your/my own facts if those findings of others are unacceptable is my reference to it.
Who tells all in their treasure hunting or even research ...even while ongoing? I don't , and so am not expecting others to.
Besides the creative artistic licence evident in most tales , there are occasions of backtracking , or new info changing previous conclusions making it easy to find fault in what had been thought accurate.
If I//We /Anyone just wants to harp criticisms.. why entertain such?
As to individuals temperaments...musicians and artists , treasure hunters , some anyway ; can make a long ride longer or a tent shrink fast in a long rain.
Depends what you want out of their association as to if it is worth it or not.
I don't hold you to the St. Louis trader Joe Ribaudo's personality and temperament, but recall reading of it on occasion when seeing it in your posts.
You should like what you like and be on what board you see fit.
Ain't what you say it's how you say it and you do fine.



(Bill
In all it is just another group seeking answers.
A couple members of which have been very generous to me in my interests beyond the stones themselves. Yet because of the stones.
If they have anything to gain from that I have much more to gain.
Sarge's and co's integrity/credibility do not affect my interest in their conclusion should it eventually occur.
They're drivin and I'm just riding. No sand in my crack(s) and no spines stuck in me , or a contest for destination(s), maps , ect..


The movie the Revenent is out.
Based on Hugh Glass but mixed with hints of Jeremiah Johnson (John Liver eatin Johnston) ,and hints of the Heston -Kieth Mountain Men and possibly more films that don't come to mind ... that are loosely based on books that are possibly loosely based on....
Should I critique the films version as a deception , or accept it as the creative license taken by it's creators in it's telling that may inspire some interest in Hugh Glass that may otherwise be unknown to a new generation?
Heck it even hints of an era lost to modern lexicon almost.
I don't take the film as gospel as to Glass's story by any means but appreciate the interest it may inspire in others to look into another time and it's people and try to flesh out the facts as much as possible about characters.

 

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[captain1965]

I'm sure since the families have taken up the hunt, it will be a while before Mr R and sarge will be revealing the true location of the PSM'S discovery. Good thing because many treasure hunters dig and destroy culturally significant sites.

 

[Hal Croves]

RC,

Having never had the urge to go to Texas and bother that family, I have no "homework" to believe. I am probably the reason that they are no longer posting, piecemeal, the information they are gathering. I received a call from RG which deteriorated into a verbal whipping over my posting "likes" and not being totally on board with that entire affair.

I was asked my opinion on how they were releasing the information and if they should just stop posting. I opined I thought they would be better off to just wait until they were ready to release the entire project.....book, film or whatever.

As I have mentioned before, I don't really have a dog in this fight and I'm more than willing to wait and see the story when it's finalized. I've also mentioned that I'm no fan of the story, as it's being presented. Having said that, I can see the reasoning that Ryan is doing it the way he is.

Once again, I wish Ryan, his team and the Tumlinson family all the luck in the world.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

cactusjumper,

View attachment 1270294

"If only one gets out, it's a victory."

​

Unfortunate phone call.
Would you please explain this "reasoning" that you see?

 

[Hal Croves]

I'm sure since the families have taken up the hunt, it will be a while before Mr R and sarge will be revealing the true location of the PAM'S discovery. Good thing because many treasure hunters dig and destroy culturally significant sites.

captain1965,
Oren Arnold wrote about this in a strangely familiar way.

somehiker posted an image of an object that was found in the Superstitions, a crucifix like metal thing. Did you have a chance to look at it? I was hoping to read your thoughts on it.

Thanks.

 

[coazon de oro]

RC,

Having never had the urge to go to Texas and bother that family, I have no "homework" to believe. I am probably the reason that they are no longer posting, piecemeal, the information they are gathering. I received a call from RG which deteriorated into a verbal whipping over my posting "likes" and not being totally on board with that entire affair.

I was asked my opinion on how they were releasing the information and if they should just stop posting. I opined I thought they would be better off to just wait until they were ready to release the entire project.....book, film or whatever.

As I have mentioned before, I don't really have a dog in this fight and I'm more than willing to wait and see the story when it's finalized. I've also mentioned that I'm no fan of the story, as it's being presented. Having said that, I can see the reasoning that Ryan is doing it the way he is.

Once again, I wish Ryan, his team and the Tumlinson family all the luck in the world.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

Howdy Joe,

I have always known that you are your own man, free to voice your own opinions. I am much the same, and feel free to hit the like button when something makes good sense regardless of who it may offend. If you get a wild hair to hit a like, don't let anyone pluck it. Don't let a moderator from some other forum control you here.

Homar

 

[Hal Croves]

Howdy Joe,

I have always known that you are your own man, free to voice your own opinions. I am much the same, and feel free to hit the like button when something makes good sense regardless of who it may offend. If you get a wild hair to hit a like, don't let anyone pluck it. Don't let a moderator from some other forum control you here.

Homar

View attachment 1270329


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[cactusjumper]

cactusjumper,

View attachment 1270294

"If only one gets out, it's a victory."

​

Unfortunate phone call.
Would you please explain this "reasoning" that you see?

Hal,

No problem. Ryan has developed a relationship with the family, no secret there, and I don't doubt he has made promises. All of us have done the same thing. I don't care for the long drawn out dribble of information, but I have done the same thing on a much smaller scale.

You listen to those who don't agree with your methods, then do it your own way. Take it or leave it, can't supply a reference, say so and move on kinda thing. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal,

No problem. Ryan has developed a relationship with the family, no secret there, and I don't doubt he has made promises. All of us have done the same thing. I don't care for the long drawn out dribble of information, but I have done the same thing on a much smaller scale.

You listen to those who don't agree with your methods, then do it your own way. Take it or leave it, can't supply a reference, say so and move on kinda thing. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Take care,

Joe

I don't know of anyone who doesn't understand the confidentiality part of the "project" and quite honestly, that has nothing to do with the "dribbling of information". I read the signing off post dated Feb 02. It took less than a week to sign back on. That's the center of this show and the elephant in the room. It drives every poor, vacillating decision.

 

[Weaversneedle]

I don't know of anyone who doesn't understand the confidentiality part of the "project" and quite honestly, that has nothing to do with the "dribbling of information". I read the signing off post dated Feb 02. It took less than a week to sign back on. That's the center of this show and the elephant in the room. It drives every poor, vacillating decision.

It seems to me that most of the members on the forum understand what is going on in Texas and realize they will have to wait for all the information and artifacts to surface before the story can be told correctly. I'm not sure why a few impatient members can't wait until everything is sorted out. I don't have a problem waiting for the TV show . I guess my point is: If you don't like the way the information has been coming through then don't pay any attention to the subject anymore

 

[Hal Croves]

It seems to me that most of the members on the forum understand what is going on in Texas and realize they will have to wait for all the information and artifacts to surface before the story can be told correctly. I'm not sure why a few impatient members can't wait until everything is sorted out. I don't have a problem waiting for the TV show . I guess my point is: If you don't like the way the information has been coming through then don't pay any attention to the subject anymore

I am not exactly sure what you think will be "sorted out". The ending is already known and the linchpin of their entire theory is no where to be found so, whats left to wait for? What you perceive as impatience might be more about keeping people "accurate" and, I hope that you agree, there is never anything wrong with a little pressure to help keep things square.

 

[Weaversneedle]

I am not exactly sure what you think will be "sorted out". The ending is already known and the linchpin of their entire theory is no where to be found so, whats left to wait for? What you perceive as impatience might be more about keeping people "accurate" and, I hope that you agree, there is never anything wrong with a little pressure to help keep things square.

Actually I don't agree, the only thing that this "pressure" as you call it has shut down any communication so that any of the people on the forum that enjoyed the reports from Texas won't get them anymore. My advice would be wait till everything is uncovered and then bash them if you think they are wrong

 

[Ponchosportal]

Based upon the questions being asked I personally still have no faith that this is anything but a ruse. A ruse in the since that their is nothing here to which they will be any more successful than any of their predecessors/family. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear although some have tried. So in that since I'm glad I am not chasing this dragon (wasting my time).

I do however appreciate the candor on this site (treasure net has and always will rule) compared to the other one. And I'm sure they don't care where they read the answers to their questions; they just need your assistance to find penetrating answers to their brick-walls.

If the stones/maps/family/etc. don't produce anything I can't believe anyone would produce a movie or a book based on these revelations.

Best of luck in your health and hunting.
Poncho

 

[Hal Croves]

Actually I don't agree, the only thing that this "pressure" as you call it has shut down any communication so that any of the people on the forum that enjoyed the reports from Texas won't get them anymore. My advice would be wait till everything is uncovered and then bash them if you think they are wrong

The reports will continue, count on it. In fact, if you read the list that was recently posted, you will find them there, masked as questions. In all honesty, they simply can't help themselves and the Romney like bromides and platitudes well, they certainly deserve a good bashing. Here is what you seem not to understand about getting banned or "shut down", insecure people do it to themselves.

 

[Townley]

well, they certainly deserve a good bashing. Here is what you seem not to understand about getting banned or "shut down", insecure people do it to themselves

I notice now we have resorted to threats. Why do you think they deserve to be bashed?

 

[Hal Croves]

Based upon the questions being asked I personally still have no faith that this is anything but a ruse. A ruse in the since that their is nothing here to which they will be any more successful than any of their predecessors/family. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear although some have tried. So in that since I'm glad I am not chasing this dragon (wasting my time).

I do however appreciate the candor on this site (treasure net has and always will rule) compared to the other one. And I'm sure they don't care where they read the answers to their questions; they just need your assistance to find penetrating answers to their brick-walls.

If the stones/maps/family/etc. don't produce anything I can't believe anyone would produce a movie or a book based on these revelations.

Best of luck in your health and hunting.
Poncho

I think that you nailed it. The manuscript and historical background story on their own may have been too market-ably limited, a small, somewhat informed audience. Throw in an active treasure hunt and some conflict, and the numbers start to make sense for a drama hungry, television audience. Only problem is, the final product tends to be crap, like the most recent attempt.

Publishing the manuscript with the researched historical details (facts) and illustrations would have been considered something extraordinary.


A decent historical researcher/writer can't remain objective by injecting themselves and their ideas into a story.


I love this advertisement.

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[Hal Croves]

I notice now we have resorted to threats. Why do you think they deserve to be bashed?

Threats? Not quite tenderfoot. What you omitted in your quote was "and the Romney like bromides and platitudes well, they certainly deserve a good bashing." So, no, I have not threatened anyone and I stand by my words. Bromides and platitudes, deserve a good bashing. A written, critical bashing. Either you disagree or, you don't.

Its slippery ground to cherry pick words when quoting someone.

Anyway, welcome to TNet.

 

[Azquester]

The reports will continue, count on it. In fact, if you read the list that was recently posted, you will find them there, masked as questions. In all honesty, they simply can't help themselves and the Romney like bromides and platitudes well, they certainly deserve a good bashing. Here is what you seem not to understand about getting banned or "shut down", insecure people do it to themselves.

Hal, I think if anything at all comes of this it may be some new revelation about Jacob Waltz. Old Waltz may have been a free mason. Jacob's reading of old symbolic maps that no one else can figure out just may have been his cup of tea and lead him to his mine. It probably won't be anything worth while just another story about the old geezer. But now I can see the trite remarks being dripped in an attempt to drag the two legends into one. It gives more credibility to the cause for the Family where it is sorely required. The story standing by itself would have no real value. Just drag the old Dutchman out in the open and give him a stone or barn map. Then we have a connection of importance. Relying on the man alone (Travis) would only give the tale one person's version that has been shown to be just another one of his great deception's like when he forged the original stones for his bumper photo.

That was the real story here.

You're right though. It is becoming boring and repetitive mainly because of the inexperienced layman they propped up and shoved out there in the front lines for doing this.

Probably a bad choice for a new Stone Maps researcher. (Novice Treasure Hunter)

I think they knew no Treasure Hunter could get close to the family so they needed a neutral party to do their digging.

Now they all seem too have fell into a hole of their own excavation.

 

[sdcfia]

Hal, I think if anything at all comes of this it may be some new revelation about Jacob Waltz.

Yeah, like: why did he end up in Natchez after getting off the boat, and what were his associations there? And: what were his associations and activities in California, especially El Monte, besides the old reliable, "He worked as a miner"?

 

[Azquester]

I took the liberty of saying in my own words what is being asked from that other site. This is not a copy or copyright material from the other place this is my own words made by me no one else.


1) What is your personal thinking on the numerals 1-8-4-7?

2) What is your take of the horse or priest stone, with regards to the trail stones? Do you feel like they belong together, or are they two different pieces of information?

3) From a "treasure researcher" point of view, why would anyone go out in the Superstitions and spend $30k+ in their hunting of these fabricated maps, but not just use the same amount to do research with others that actually knew the legend? If you lay down that amount of cash, and didn't find Treasure, would it also seem because of that, you would have bad feelings towards the fake stone maps, or any lost Dutchman treasure legend?

4) Why do others feel entitled to the shoddy research done by me, when they could have just simply gone before I and done it their self ? Why is giving what I can give, not "good enough", when I'm not obliged to give anything to anyone?

5) How much of the C Mitchell saga do you think is truth from his book, Superstition Treasures?

6) How much people have looked through out the gleamed information on G Cundiff's site? Read each document that he posted about this legend? If none, than why?

7) What does anyone recall reading about the site, Travis says, these stone maps were located?

8) For anyone, what is the best lies that you have found about the stone maps and on the other side of that, what is the greatest truth?

9) If you found Treasure early in the century when it was not legal to possess, and you found some maps that lead to that Treasure, how would you act on it?

10) What would you do in order to get some other Treasure Hunter off your tail?

11) Up until now, did you believe the peralta stones in the museum as being authentic or not? Even though everyone else say's they're bogus? Because the Stone Maps are displayed in the Superstition Mountain non profit do you think that they are not important because they are not in a state sponsored Museum?

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal, I think if anything at all comes of this it may be some new revelation about Jacob Waltz. Old Waltz may have been a free mason. Jacob's reading of old symbolic maps that no one else can figure out just may have been his cup of tea and lead him to his mine. It probably won't be anything worth while just another story about the old geezer. But now I can see the trite remarks being dripped in an attempt to drag the two legends into one. It gives more credibility to the cause for the Family where it is sorely required. The story standing by itself would have no real value. Just drag the old Dutchman out in the open and give him a stone or barn map. Then we have a connection of importance. Relying on the man alone (Travis) would only give the tale one person's version that has been shown to be just another one of his great deception's like when he forged the original stones for his bumper photo.

That was the real story here.

You're right though. It is becoming boring and repetitive mainly because of the inexperienced layman they propped up and shoved out there in the front lines for doing this.

Probably a bad choice for a new Stone Maps researcher. (Novice Treasure Hunter)

I think they knew no Treasure Hunter could get close to the family so they needed a neutral party to do their digging.

Now they all seem too have fell into a hole of their own excavation.

Bill,
I am not interested in the current Tumlinson hunt or anything other than Ryan's purchase of the manuscript, his work in researching what lead to it being written, and perhaps some previously unseen photographs. If a map or two falls into the binding, all the better. His opinions, theories, drama, save all that for television where it belongs.

I can't comment on Waltz being a Freemason.

What I will tell you is that Freemasonry and most of what we are writing about here are inseparable. Its almost always there, in the background, and while the idea took a beating sometime back, I think that opinions are now warming to the idea.

I will even go out on a limb and suggest that it was Freemasonry that kept this legend alive.