Why do I hesitate to hunt this park?

[Bum Luck]

I guess it would be best to hunt this park after 5pm. This park is where they keep all of their grounds equipment. There is always workers there from 8 until 5. I have been there 20 times or more to check to see if they were there and everytime I went they were there. Where should I start in this park? Thanks guys!

That tells me that your park is where the park workers "park" themselves to keep busy. If they have too much time on their hands, they may get proprietary about "their" park. May.

Then they may slide into the "ownership" thing.

I'd go after they're gone.

One other tip. I always carry a little pouch for my "finds", and always keep a few pieces of sharp can slaw and broken glass in it so I can show the person I'm talking to the dangerous things I remove from the park so kids don't hurt themselves. I've found hypodermic needles too, and that usually brings gratitude for finding them.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Listen to jeff of pa, he has good advice. One thing I would like to add is if you feel the need to call the park deparment to get permission, I would suggest this. Don't ever ask for permission for park hunting.. Ask if there is a rule or law against detecting in the park. Basically, you don't need permission if there isn't any rules or laws against detecting in a park. If you ask for permission, the person you ask may tell you no even though it's not their job to do so. By asking if there is a rule or law against it, they will have to give you an answer, not an opinion. If they say there is a rule or law against it, ask for a copy of the rules and laws so you can verify it yourself.

If it is legal to detect in the park, then don't act like you are doing something wrong. If someone stops you and tries to tell you otherwise, then don't back down. Hold your ground. Just because they don't know the rules and laws doesn't mean you don't. If a police stops you, tell them you have checked into it and there is no rule or law against it. The police are there to enforce the law, not make it.

half-step, I have heard of this technique, for people who feel they MUST talk to a live-person, to ask it in that fashion. Rather than say something like "Can I metal detect?" (which merely puts it up to some clerk's whims, feelings, interpretation, etc....). So instead of asking "Can I metal detect?", the person would ask: "Is there anything that prohibits metal detectors", or "is there any mention of metal detectors anywhere in city muni codes?", etc.... The idea being: that this puts the burden of proof on the desk clerk to PRODUCE such a statute (if one existed, which there usually isn't).

While I can see this working sometimes, I have also heard where it back-fired on people. For example: Someone can answer by saying: "Yes, there's a prohibition on metal detecting, since you can't dig or deface". Notice in that example, the asker NEVER EVEN MENTIONED "digging" or "defacing", etc... But go figure, the person hearing just subconsciouly mentally went to that "image". Or the person answering one time told the guy "we would prefer you didn't" (as if he'd just asked their "opinion", not about actual "law"). When the md'r went to object and say "... but where is that written?", it just went downhill from there (to the usual bunk that someone can "morph" to fit your "pressing question").

So here's a better way for those who feel they MUST talk to a live person: Simply ask: "Where can I view the city's laws, codes, rules, statutes, etc.... Like the city charter-type-thing?". You need not mention metal detecting at all. Just ask where this material is available for public viewing. Perhaps they'll pull the binder out from behind the desk (or direct you to which counter or desk it's on in city hall, etc...). Perhaps they'll give you the link where it's at on-line. Perhaps it's at the local library. IT'S GOT TO BE SOMEWHERE available to the public to view. Then simply go look at it, and answer your own question, of whether or not "metal detecting" is listed amongst any possible prohibitions. Presto. That satsifies someone's urge to go talk to a live person, right?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I always contact the cities Park and Rec department. Normally the people there are really casual and always have helped me out. I have asked the Parks and Rec Department in 3 seperate cities and in each of them I have received written permission. EVERYONE on here will disagree with me and state that it's pointless to ask and that people will just say "no" because it's easier, but I swear to you it's worked for me.
I work in law enforcement so normally I tend to do things by the book, call your Parks and Rec, you'll feel better about it knowing you've asked the proper individual.
From how you sound, I can sense concern and honesty in your words, it's nice to know you are trying to do the right thing.

Linkhylian, glad you are 3 for 3 so far. Just curious, how did you phrase your question? And how did you proceed from THAT, to getting them to put that in writing? (seems like the fastest way to conjur up a no, so I'm amazed that you got it in writing as well). Did you mention anything about digging?

Be honest: when going in there, did you introduce yourself and let-it-be known that you were in law enforcement (I wouldn't blame you, if you did, as fellow public workers no doubt will have respect for each other, moreso than a yahoo who walks in off the street with an odd-ball question). Or did you keep your job title/duty/affiliation completely secret in that over-the-counter exchange with the person? Thus do you think your background and employement in Law Enforcement (as you say) brought about an aura of respect from them, and perhaps had a .... little bit ... to do with their answer and cooperation? If so, then I think you would agree that this is not an advantage that the average yahoo like us, do not have.

If I were a cop, I might be inclined to do what you're doing, since that would put you at a distinct advantage in such an exchange (when/if there is really no "specific" rule that says no detecting, yet we fear someone might give an arbitrary "safe" no). But since I (and the rest of us on Tnet) are not necessarily cops, then ... go figure, we don't carry that premise of respect, prestige, and solidarity with other cops and city-workers.

As for when you say: "...it's nice to know you are trying to do the right thing....": why can't "doing the right thing" be looking it up for oneself, to see if there's any mention or prohibition of metal detecting?

 

[Rawhide]

Well, I was followed from park to park the other day by the same workers lol. I actually walked up and said hi, had a convo and shook their hand. One of the guys even gave me a tip about a old swimming hole that has been dry for several years no one detects...........watch for my future post lol. Park workers are as shy of you as you are of them. People feel better if you are smiling and look like you belong in the park. Oh, you do belong in the park, just as well as anyone else. There will be a office, and they will be friendly when you go. I would be direct and friendly, if a permit is required for your city parks. My permit covers all parks in the city, and was free. Took 5 minutes to get. If they tell you no, I dont think I would want to know what the fines and penalty's are. As for turf, thats what they do, they fix turf. I dont dig plugs in the park. Most finds are from the daily things that are dropped every day by people like you and me. In our parks, there is a vapor shield about 6"inches down, no need to dig deep. You will cover more ground just popping targets out with a screwdriver anyway. Tot lots is a good source of rings for me. Good Luck.

 

[rwd mo]

Thanks everyone for your advise. I have been detecting for about 2 years now. I just bought an Omega 8000. I still dont have a pinpointer yet but I can cut a good plug but I think I will wait on this park until I get my pinpointer. Thanks again for everyone's posts and advise. Thats why I love this site.

Just a thought maybe you could detect on sundays and holidays etc as most people have those days off. Use a screwdriver or small digger first then if they see you they may not say anything, I use a 4in head on my detectors in a park as that doesn't scare the grounds keepers so much.

 

[Rawhide]

I like the small search coils and they really produce at the park. But I am good enough with my 11" head I dont need it anymore. Im not sure why a large coil would scare anyone, except maybe if a kid got a little too close and maybe stepped on it. I go hunting in off hours, I just cant get any good detecting in with crowds. Absolute waste of time. Go early or in poor weather for your best hunts. I like to follow all the whites and at pro guys around as they miss everything but the pull tabs lol.

 

[Bum Luck]

I like the small search coils and they really produce at the park. But I am good enough with my 11" head I dont need it anymore. Im not sure why a large coil would scare anyone, except maybe if a kid got a little too close and maybe stepped on it. I go hunting in off hours, I just cant get any good detecting in with crowds. Absolute waste of time. Go early or in poor weather for your best hunts. I like to follow all the whites and at pro guys around as they miss everything but the pull tabs lol.

God Bless 'em!

 

[halfstep]

half-step, I have heard of this technique, for people who feel they MUST talk to a live-person, to ask it in that fashion. Rather than say something like "Can I metal detect?" (which merely puts it up to some clerk's whims, feelings, interpretation, etc....). So instead of asking "Can I metal detect?", the person would ask: "Is there anything that prohibits metal detectors", or "is there any mention of metal detectors anywhere in city muni codes?", etc.... The idea being: that this puts the burden of proof on the desk clerk to PRODUCE such a statute (if one existed, which there usually isn't).

While I can see this working sometimes, I have also heard where it back-fired on people. For example: Someone can answer by saying: "Yes, there's a prohibition on metal detecting, since you can't dig or deface". Notice in that example, the asker NEVER EVEN MENTIONED "digging" or "defacing", etc... But go figure, the person hearing just subconsciouly mentally went to that "image". Or the person answering one time told the guy "we would prefer you didn't" (as if he'd just asked their "opinion", not about actual "law"). When the md'r went to object and say "... but where is that written?", it just went downhill from there (to the usual bunk that someone can "morph" to fit your "pressing question").

So here's a better way for those who feel they MUST talk to a live person: Simply ask: "Where can I view the city's laws, codes, rules, statutes, etc.... Like the city charter-type-thing?". You need not mention metal detecting at all. Just ask where this material is available for public viewing. Perhaps they'll pull the binder out from behind the desk (or direct you to which counter or desk it's on in city hall, etc...). Perhaps they'll give you the link where it's at on-line. Perhaps it's at the local library. IT'S GOT TO BE SOMEWHERE available to the public to view. Then simply go look at it, and answer your own question, of whether or not "metal detecting" is listed amongst any possible prohibitions. Presto. That satsifies someone's urge to go talk to a live person, right?

I agree, it's best to do your own research and don't invite any attention to metal detecting. Some things are best left alone. Once you open the can of worms, it's hard to put all the worms back into the can.

But the problem is that some people feel like they need a written permission slip to detect at a park. So most will call and ask. That's where it can go south. That person they ask may make the decision even though it's not in their pay grade to do so.

I prefer to research myself. I don't need permission. I just need to know if there are laws or rules that prevent the use of metal detectors. If there isn't, then it is legal. You can't get in trouble for breaking a law that doesn't exist.

 

[Keppy]

Well there has to times in the day or evening or week end the grounds keepers are not there they can't be there 24 / 7 so that would be the good time to hunt... When they are not there....