Why is the CZ3D so expensive?

[mikeraydj]

The knob does not do anything when you push it. Seems simple to me.

Enough of this though, I am going detecting. You all have a Merry Christmas!

Bye.

If this was such a non issue do you think it would have gone on this long with such fanfair? There are reasons that are becoming apparent. A. This was a mistake by the company and they do not want the public to know. B. This is a function that they do not want you to access. EX- Being able to make the machine operate out of company specs. Why? You could detune your machine to perform better that it was rolled out to do at the price point, or you could detune the machine and make it so unstable that the service people would have to devote too much time in warranty work from operators adjusting the machine. Am I on the right track Woof? Clearly this is not a non functioning knob or Fisher would have replaced it with a single function knob that is like the rest of the knobs on the machine after the first generation. To say it is non functional and to continue to put a more expensive multi-function knob that does nothing is either a bad business decision, or has a function the company doesn't want the consumer to know about.
The argument, if I told you, what would you do with the information? Is inferring that the competition doesn't know so we should keep this a secret. I propose that if I were a competing detector company, with engineers. I would have your detector in my lab and know exactly the software you use and the hardware in support of it. So the argument of trade secret kinda falls flat.

 

[G.A.P.metal]

Mike
I have not sold detectors in along time and have no dog in the tussle .
I sorry if i sounded like i ganged up on you it was not my intent .
Dave needs no help here....but if you want to see a Hoot go the the LRL forum when he is there.
Gary

 

[mikeraydj]

Gary you are a good man and I respect your experience and always enjoy your posts. I just can't sit back and be told none of your business when I have a question regarding a piece of equipment I paid for. I am not asking them to give away the company store. How would you feel if a dealer sold you a car that had a gas pedal, a clutch, a brake, and a pedal that did nothing (or so you thought)? Then when you call the dealer, you ask what it is used for, you are told that it is none of your business and that only the factory knows. Does that inspire confidence in the product you bought? When a company can't tell you what that extra pedal is for? Car companies don't even do that. They will not tell you the procedure, but they will tell you EXACTLY what it does. I can find out that there is a port in my car for the computer and the tests they use that port for. They don't tell me how to access that port, but they do tell me what happens using that port. I have not seen that level of disclosure here.

 

[mikeraydj]

Sometimes I feel like I have been sold the same pig. Just different lipstick on it. I guess that might be the secret. F75- T2, F70-F75, Euro tech-F2 or F4, Bounty hunter Platinum-Technetics Omega. Do I need to continue? What other detector company does that?

 

[woof!]

Mike, you're welcome to make up a bunch of stuff. Remember Ponderosa? He did, too, but had the good sense to stop.

Heck, if you get creative enough, I may even try to compete!

 

[G.A.P.metal]

Mike
Thanks for the kind words.
In all the Owners Manuals that is have seen( some where i`m lookin for the wording now).
The manual says that the factory can change minor things on the machine and will not,and do not have to tell the customer anything about it .
I think it helps to not muddy up the water ,by announcing minor changes....for instance the Tek. Omega software Ver. 3 the ID # stayed on the screen i think 5 to 10 seconds and on the ver. 4 software the ID # stayed on the screen till the next target was detected.
For i guy just learning that would confuse him and he would not understand the software versions and just muddy up the water with that kind of stuff...and we don't need to know that kind of stuff either.
I`m no sales guy either but i think it would cost the factory money to advertise that kind of stuff....and make the factory look like they missed something ...went in fact they are tweaking it and improving that model...with little stuff.
Gary

 

[G.A.P.metal]

Mike
I had the G2,Omega,Eurotek-pro and now the T2 Ltd. many Fishers...and was always proud to have Bounty Hunter too to offer to my customers.I`m still astounded at how many versions/variations of machines there are .
I can assure you that all are very different machines...and i use early Tek Condor and some others and and an early machine by FT the 24 K Gold or something like that.
Heck i used a Whites 6000 Di Pro SL for 15 yrs and that pinpointed off the trigger on the front ...just like my T2 ...i think i know where that perfect place for a pinpoint Idea to be came from .
Gary

 

[mikeraydj]

I am done. Tired of swimming upstream. I can see that we will go round and round, and in the end the powers that be will prevail. But I guess that was the whole point. I can see that if there is this much trouble just to find out about a function on my machine, just imagine how much trouble a person has in trying to find out the truth about his world. Wow!

 

[Steve Herschbach]

Just in case I was being referenced - nope, not a dealer. Used to be, but also for Garrett, Minelab, Tesoro, White's and more. Got no horse in the race and use them all. I try to heap equal amounts of grief on all the manufacturers. Can't help you with this one though.

 

[woof!]

I am done. Tired of swimming upstream. I can see that we will go round and round, and in the end the powers that be will prevail. But I guess that was the whole point. I can see that if there is this much trouble just to find out about a function on my machine, just imagine how much trouble a person has in trying to find out the truth about his world. Wow!

Mike, several people have told you everything you need to know about the matter and you weren't having any. Swimming upstream for no good reason at all was nobody's idea but your own.

That matter of "trying to find out the TRVTH about his world" (allcaps mine), the problem is that the TRVTH is not hiding anywhere, you're immersed in it 24 hours a day. Ask the right questions, and it will reveal itself to you: philosophers have known this for ages. Within the last 200 years that principle has become the scientific foundation of just about anything have to do with energy or information, including biology. It's everywhere. Trust me on this if you can: we haven't found a way to cram the secrets of the Universe behind the pushbutton switch on an F5. It's just a goddamn switch that most customers never even realized was there, and we didn't tell them it was there because it doesn't do anything of use for them anyhow. If it were a secret double-your-depth switch, we wouldn't have kept it a secret, we'd have priced the F5 at $1900 dollars and bragged the hell outta that switch.

Mike, Internet forums are exercises in sociological and psychological research done in a public laboratory. And that's how I've always used them, because I regard the human condition as just as important as whatever the "cover story" subject matter of the forum is. I don't hate you, I'm not mad at you, I'm just trying to understand why your particular "Why?er phenotype" does what y'all do: and, since it creates a lot of headaches (esp. for you, it's a serious disability as you've described), what might be done about it. I've got some theories as to the motives that drive that phenotype, but because they're kinda personal this is the wrong venue to pursue those details. I wish I knew a good venue for pursuing those details, but unfortunately I don't. If you do happen to know a good venue for that, you can PM me if you want.

--Dave Johnson

 

[mikeraydj]

I am sorry that you mistook my curiosity for anger. At least I have gotten a little closer to the TRVTH. By you telling me what the switch doesn't do, is helping me understand what it does do. I am surprised that you have indulged my curiosity for as long as you have. At least I have gotten a little more than none of your business. No I am not looking for the secrets of the universe in the F5 switch. (We all know that the secrets of the universe are hidden in a secret complex at First Texas in a heavily guarded underground bunker. Along with Dave's diabolical human experiments that went terribly wrong. ) I am just looking for specific answers to my questions. If this is not a user function. Why is it there. By all outward appearances it makes it look like a design flaw. If it is used by the factory, What do they use it for? Pretty simple. I was under the impression you were the guy who made the machine, so you would have the answers. Apparently answers you are not prepared to give. I can respect that. But by so blatantly putting this on the front of your machines, you are begging the customer to ask why and how. I am taken aback by your surprise that anyone would be curious about this and want specific answers. You of all people know that curiosity is the foundation by which innovation, experimentation, and knowledge is advanced. Asking why and how. Casting aspersions to my mental state is good for deflecting the issue, but doesn't answer my questions. I assure you I am of sound mind. (My psychiatrist will tell you.)
Thinking this is all an experiment is spoken like a true engineer. I think we should both put our tin foil hats on. Don't you agree Dave?

P.S. No Steve you weren't

 

[woof!]

Well, as a minimum, Mike, I think we can agree that you're persistent.

The reasons why the switch is there on the F5, are reasons that don't concern the customer. (Wow, the echo is still reverberating in here!)

If from your perspective it appears to be a design flaw, well, at least it's a harmless one. And, every time you get bored, you can give it a push just to make sure it's still there. Heck, perhaps you could even regard it as a "feature". Can't twiddle thumbs while swing a metal detector, so we provided an alternative. Yup, that's why it's there. ACK! ya done did the Dick Cheney maneuver and I finally spilled the beans. It's for one-thumb thumb-twiddling, that's why it's there, now the world knows...............

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

Funny funny funny it must be for an upper similar model with extra features, one must think .

 

[woof!]

Nope, all it ever was, was a thumb-twiddling feature. We didn't have to mention it in the user's manual since the kind of customer who would need that feature is the kind of customer who will find it on their own anyhow. ....That's my story and I'm sticking to it. At least until I can think up a better one to replace it.

 

[mikeraydj]

Bravo! Still aren't answering my questions, but it is good theater. Don't know how trying to squash a customer because you don't like the question accomplishes anything but hey, maybe that is the First Texas way. Now we all know why they keep the geeky engineer guys in the back, away from the customers. Oh and Dave, apparently it does concern the customer as I am one. Just between you and me, I don't think you want to put on your resume that you are a designer of metal detectors that have buttons that do nothing. If so, were you the lead designer on this project too? And I have a dozen questions about the dousing rod that I am sure you could answer.



P.S My hats are off to the mods. I am surprised you haven't had me kicked by now.

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

Pic of the useless button
How are you liking the new machine ? Don't get hung up in one button that's dead .

 

[mikeraydj]

I kinda feel guilty that I have so many buttons and that they felt the need to give me a dead one also. Now that is going all out for the customer! Just don't ask though, or everyone else will want one too. And mistakenly assume that it has a function. Don't tell anyone but I think I found a video on their latest research project.

I think it is going to be on the F25. I think Dave may be the lead on this one. Don't worry though, it is only used by the factory.

(I know, I know, go sit in time out Mike. But you gotta admit it is funny.)

 

[mikeraydj]

Now to be fair, all other aspects of the F5 are sheer genius. The user interface is inspired, the ease of adjustabilty is second to none, and real time info is a dream. I have never thought the F5 was anything but stellar and Dave Johnson is the man. If there is a metal detector hall of fame I am sure Dave is there along with George Payne, John Gardiner, Mark Krieger, and Jorge Anton Saad the lead on the F5.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Goodness. All this because a potentiometer functions when turned and also makes a "click" when you press but otherwise does nothing else.

Wait 'till you find out about your appendix. God has some 'splainin to do!

 

[mikeraydj]

Nice running interference for the company. How much do they pay you? or is it in trade?